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There is no way in hell I would let OW near my children.

I know you really want to believe they only cuddled on the bed and held hands but you need to be aware that WS minimise what they do. I guess you think we are all cynical - well we have learnt from experience. For six months I believed it was an only an EA. The cuddle my WH admitted too at first became one without clothes and included a BJ.

Schedule a polygraph for him and don't back out - maybe that will give you some peace of mind.

Does she have a spouse? If she does make sure he knows.

Good luck - you and your husband should read Not Just Friends by Dr Shirley Glass. I think you would find it helpful and insightful as to where the wheels started to fall off.

((SbS)) I think you have some solid advice here.

1) Let the Principal know. This woman should NOT be teaching your children. As Karma said, "there are consequences".

2) The fact that you had to write the NC letter disturbs me. He was clearly still in the "fog" when he wrote it. Also that your H feels it is "no big deal" that she is the girls' teacher. Pardon?

3) I would start reading as much as you about post-A behavoiur and what YOU need from your H. I would demand such "High Cost" Behaviors such as: He MUST go to IC. I believe you would benefit as well. Then there is MC. HC Behaviours are noted in After the Affair, by Janis Spring.

Another good one would be, Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.

If your H does not agree to counseling or even to buy and read these books then I would seriously do the 180 which you can also read about on this site.

I know you want so badly to R, but the work needs to come first. His actions need to match up to his words. "It's no big deal" simply does not match.

Best wishes to you.

LA

[This message edited by LA44 at 6:51 AM, June 4th (Tuesday)]

No way in hell would she be anywhere near my kids. I wouldn't even let them in the same school. If I had no other choice of school, I would home school them, do whatever I had to keep that woman from having anything to do with my kids.

I hate to throw salt on a wound, but I do not for one single second believe they only cuddled, two adults, in a bed, in a hotel room? No way. I am not saying this to hurt you, but to alert you that this his high on the bullshit meter!

I am so sorry.

I do not for one single second believe they only cuddled, two adults, in a bed, in a hotel room? No way.

I agree, it is highly doubtful that they didn't take it way further than this. They have both proven their willingness to lie and deny, and really, they are both quite unremorseful.

Not saying this to hurt you either, but your WH no longer deserves the "benefit of the doubt" once he crossed that boundary, they lose that privilege. Be realistic. They already crossed so many boundaries, what was stopping them. The truth is, it sometimes takes quite awhile to get to the first kiss, but it is a very short leap from the first kiss to full on screwing. It is a fact!

eta: There is no way in hell I would ever let the OW be anywhere near my child, have any kind of influence or power over my child. You are NOT over reacting, your WH is full of wayward thinking.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 7:14 AM, June 4th (Tuesday)]

Ugh....You're not over reacting at all.

I wouldn't be able to tolerate that person teaching my children.

I hate to add to the dog pile, however, I also think the "we just cuddled in Europe" is complete bullshit. I understand that you WANT to believe that, desperately, it just has the stink of lies all over it.

I'd get a poly.

Also, if YOU had to write the NC letter---then your WH can "loophole" out of that. He could have taken it underground with the "justification" that HE didn't write it, so he's not violating his "word" (which means shit now anyway).

I'm so sorry for your pain.

((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))

You can safely bet the house and win – because more than “cuddling” happened in Europe. My H told me the same thing – they were just good friends, they kissed once and talked in the car. I posted here about it and got all the same responses – “more than that happened”

When I sat down and logically thought about it – OF COURSE more than that happened – first of all – you’re thinking like a woman – I believe a woman might be satisfied with cuddling – but men are looking for more than that – men say *I love you* to GET sex – woman *have* sex – to get love. And really? Two grown adults – alone – who claim to love each other – and your H stopped at cuddling? Is he 12 yrs old? Would YOUR H believe nothing happened if it were you? Of course not – he’s a MAN and he knows better.

Turns out my H was lying – and so is yours.

But that’s for another post – I know we sound cynical – but we’ve been in your shoes. Please post when you find out the truth – we’ll help you through it.

As for the OW and the school – first of all – her attitude tells me – she and your H have talked – he’s protecting her – telling her “don’t worry, I’ll handle this – I really don’t think my wife will do anything” So – OW is not worried at all – she thinks she has the upper hand. You need to take control of this situation – you are not backed in a corner at all – go to the school – tell them the situation – and make sure its rectified to your satisfaction. When she starts crying about losing her job, whatever…tell her this for me “consequences suck..don’t they”

ABSOLUTELY NO WAY ARE YOU OVER-REACTING. NOT FOR A SINGLE SECOND.

You know, teachers are supposed to be of a high moral fiber. The reason? They are teaching children, influencing them, molding young minds. As parents, we are responsible for who influences our children, no matter their age. It is your duty to see that she never sees your children, let alone teaches them and influences them - and perhaps give a note to Daddy now & then.

There is no way she would teach my kids anything, ever.

Consider this, too - You want your kids to have a healthy home life, and are considering making the ultimate sacrifice of bearing this burden privately. Believe me, you are only human, and the burden you would bear would most certainly be sensed by your children. Their home life would be affected.

I would certainly write the letters to the school board, PTA, etc., just to let them know that the moral character of this teacher is not up to par when it comes to teaching and forming young minds. The children of this school deserve the best when it comes to teachers. I would also pull my kids from the school unless she was fired.

As to your WH - the comment about a signature a couple times a year would make me want to slap him silly! Clearly, it has not ended for him, meaning he is either still thinking fond thoughts of her and wanting a connection, and this is a convenient one - or he is still in the A.

As to what happened at that hotel, well, if you were to go to that hotel and spend the night in the same hotel with a very close male that you considered your best friend, then came home and told your H that the two of you cuddled but didn't have sex, what would he think?

For the record, yes, I think a whole lot more than that happened.

I fully agree with the consensus here.

1. You don't have the full story. The A almost certainly included sex. Otherwise the details just don't add up.

2. You're not over-reacting.

3. You should go to the school board, or principal, or whomever. Put your request in writing, ask for confidentiality, and make sure the request goes to more than one person.

Also, I think LaL is on to something here. There's a decent chance they're still in contact and that he is trying to downplay/control the situation for her benefit. I won't say that's for sure what's going on, but I think you should strongly evaluate that as a possibility. If I were you, I would NOT discuss the letter you're going to send with your WH beforehand. Don't let him tip her off. Just do it. You're absolutely within your rights as both parent and BW to do so.

I'm assuming whilst they were drinking and flirting on this Europe trip they were in loco parentis for a group of school kids and you wonder if you're overreacting to her teaching your kids???!!

Heck, just for THAT I'd speak to the Principal. That is out of order! Imagine what could have happened? A kid gets injured etc and the teacher has had a few?!!! Uh uh! This woman CANNOT teach your children. Her blasé reply to your contact is probably because she KNOWS you could get her fired or disciplined for her actions thus far!!

[This message edited by MrsDoubtfire at 11:45 AM, June 4th (Tuesday)]

Also, if YOU had to write the NC letter---then your WH can "loophole" out of that. He could have taken it underground with the "justification" that HE didn't write it, so he's not violating his "word" (which means shit now anyway).

Yep. My WH and I had 1 month of false R. One day during that time, I was questioning when the last time they had sex was, so he decided to text her without me knowing to ask her for me to prove it. And he bashed the hell out of her. Cursed her out, was so mean and cruel to her. When he showed it all to me that night, I basically told him, "You didn't have to say all that to her. Just tell her that you need to be away from her now because you love your family and want to make it work with us." So he texted her that.

Less than a week later, he was texting her that *I* made him say all that mean stuff to her. Too funny how the only one I "made" him send her was the one that had respect for her in it..

A big reason the wayward is supposed to write the letter is because it's supposed to be how he really feels. If you wrote it, then it's how you WANT him to feel, but it's NOT how he really feels..

I know this is a lot to take in, but please trust the collective wisdom here from so many people who have been through it. How are you feeling today?

There is no way I would allow her to be my child's teacher. I also don't feel they should be uprooted from a school and their friends. I would also go to the principle and the powers that be, ask for confidentiality and tell them what she did and that you didn't want her any where near your children.

She could use the children as a way to get back together with your husband if they aren't still in contact and waiting to resume once she gets back.

As for the hotel: 2 healthy adults in a hotel room that have feelings for each other. They had some wine to release inhibitions and are lying on a bed cuddling. Most adults that I know would be caressing each other and moving clothing to touch and feel. They would get excited and then take it all the way. After all, what would be the reason or incentive to stop? No interruptions, no spouse to think about, no kids, no responsibilities. If they were escorting a group of students, think what their behavior during the day was teaching those kids, what if one or more kids actually saw one of them go to the other's room and stay?

Welcome, and know that all of us have BTDT, and know what you are going through.

You have been given some very good advice here today.

Your H is being allowed to minimize what he has done, and is also rugsweeping. He is NOT remorseful, he is sorry he got caught. There is a huge difference, and until you experience the real remorse it is hard to understand. He thinks it's no big deal, because in his mind he feels that she is a great person...No She had every intention of screwing around with a married man.

Teachers are held to a higher standard of conduct and I am sure the school, the administration, and the board, don't want a female teacher interacting with high school kids that sees nothing wrong with having a relationship a married man.

I would have to say that unfortunately for you, real R has not started, and that I highly doubt that you have the whole/real truth.

It may be time for you to make some demands for R. One is for him to recognize the pain he has caused, the next is for him to be honest with you. Until that happens, you need to give him the 180. Put yourself, and your kids first.

Welcome, and (((and strength))))

Wow...it is unanimous!

YOU ARE NOT OVER-REACTING!

and you do not have the full story.

Welcome, by the way. I am glad you found the best group you never wanted to find. No matter what happens we can help support you through it.

Have your husband Go to the principal Tell him u need your kids I a other classroom & why. Go w him if you want & let him do the talking. His shit to own & his consequences to take. Put the in private school if u have to. Don't force yourself to be tortured by her be wise of your WH choices.

First of all, millions of hugs to you. I know --many, many of us know-- the pain that occurs when what we believe to be the extent of an already heart-rending infidelity is broadened to include things we'd so wanted to convince ourselves did not happen.

The impulse to believe the lies is so, so strong. Often, believing the best of our spouses is the only thing keeping us going.

But there comes a time when protecting our own hearts gets in the way of what is best for us and--in this case--our children.

Your husband did not just "kiss and cuddle" over wine in a hotel room in Europe. I'm sorry. I know you want to believe that and, perhaps, needed to believe it as the horror of infidelity sunk in. Sometimes, we have to let information in incrementally.

But now it's time to open your eyes a little wider, and take in the truth. You may not have the WHOLE truth yet--but I think that, if you're honest with yourself, you will admit that your gut knows that, in Europe, at least, the happy nights drinking wine involved sex.

I'm assuming whilst they were drinking and flirting on this Europe trip they were in loco parentis for a group of school kids

This, alone, warrants a report to the Powers That Be at your kids' school. It demonstrates a lack of care for the well-being of the students in their charge.

Given the brazen lack of remorse demonstrated by both your husband and OW, I would guess the affair is still ongoing.

Your husband may never admit the extent of his affair. You may never amass concrete evidence. But here's the thing: you don't need either of those things. Because you know.

Just the OW's and your WH's words alone, at this point, are evidence of their entitlement, delusion, and dishonesty.

They chose to have an affair, and continue to remorselessly lie and gaslight. They tell you you're over-reacting.

The OW's cold selfishness, as evidenced by what she's said to you and the tone in which she has done so, makes me literally cringe; as a BS it hurt to read that, in all its unrepentant Me-Me-Me gaslighting glory. It's ALL about her---and a teacher who has that attitude toward the MOTHER of these children should not be permitted anywhere near them. That your husband is on the same page as OW is incredibly worrisome. Incredibly.

You are NOT over-reacting. That either your husband or OW would suggest that shows the level of delusion they are experiencing. (File it under, "If they don't know, it won't hurt them." And then ask yourself, "Am I hurt?" The answer is yes. Now imagine your children with that hurt---and you have your answer about over-reaction.)

In your shoes, I would let the school's headmaster/principal, superintendant, and board of directors know of the affair-- in writing (to all) and in person (headmaster/principal).

Teachers are supposed to be of high moral character. They are supposed to model appropriate behavior for kids. Realistically, though, we all know they are human; a blind eye might be turned if the infidelity impacted no one in the current environment. OW might be told to be more discreet so that students' parents did not have occasion to see her behavior. She might be told to keep it under wraps. But she likely would not be fired.

But when the children DIRECTLY affected by an affair are expected to be in close proximity to the woman who wrought havoc in their lives, then "just human" doesn't cut it. "Be discreet and make sure there aren't any parents who might complain about your conduct around to see your inappropriate behavior" is not enough. Children being hurt is NOT AN OPTION.

I would ask for her dismissal.

If the school is not willing to terminate her employment, you can be damn sure I would pull my kids from the school. The teacher is NOT "a signature on a report card twice a year." (That an educator would distill his own role down to that is further evidence of the level of dishonesty and delusion still at play.) She is a looming all-day-every-day presence in your kids' lives--one who has NO compunction about harming them. (The lovebirds can lie to themselves about this if they want, but neither of them have the kids' best interest at heart.

The odds of emotional fallout hitting your kids is astronomical---particularly when the affair ends.

Now? Having her around them definitely sucks. But imagine how your kids might be targeted/scapegoated/whatever by this woman who feels ENTITLED to their father--if they really do end their affair, and your WH owns up to the whole truth, and goes NC with her. I think the potential for harm to the kids is very high, and the prospect is positively horrifying.

[This message edited by solus sto at 11:02 AM, June 4th (Tuesday)]

Way to go, solus sto.

I am so sorry, too, SweetbutStrong, if we have all overwhelmed you. Just some very big red flags in your situation.

Please check in and let us know how you are feeling.

(((Sweet))))

Multiple trips together, multiple evenings in each other's hotel rooms and they just cuddled and kissed? Remember, they thought no one would ever know what they did. Your H had blocked you out of his mind. OW is presumably single. They were drinking.

Is it realistic to believe that somehow their self control kicked in before any clothes came off? They had all night for multiple nights, and they do not sound like people who have strong moral consciences (judging by the fact that they think being alone together making out in bed is no big deal).

How did you discover the affair? Do you have access to his email, phone etc? I would 180 him and tell him that you want him to take a polygraph on the sex question.

I hope your kids don't have to change schools because as a mom, I know how hard that could be. I agree with everyone who said to go to the principal.

Make sure to give yourself and your kids a lot of TLC. I hope you have friends and/or family IRL that you can tell and lean on.

The fact that you had a great marriage and a satisfying sex life does not mean they wouldn't have a full on PA. It's not about the spouse, marriage or OW. It's about something broken deep in the WS. He has to figure out what that is or it will happen again.

For some reason this made me think of how I would feel if my mom told me my dad had an affair; and even after knowing about it, she let the other woman be my teacher at school. I would be horrified if my mom did that to me.. I would expect her to prevent me from that woman at all costs.. This is a lot about what's best for your marriage and the possibility of reconciliation, but it's also about your kids and how they would eventually feel about it..

Are you scared that outing the other woman will out your husband as well and he will lose his job? I realize that's a fear, but I think you have the responsibility to protect yourself and your kids, and perhaps even other children and their families..

Maybe we sound like an army against your husband and are advocating divorce, but we aren't. We are trying to prevent you from being manipulated by an unremorseful spouse..

Please keep posting and sharing your feelings.. You don't have to take our advice. We will keep supporting you and do our best to share our wisdom and experiences to help guide you through this..

Hugs..

Oh hell no.

First, I too live in a small community and I am on the school board.

I am sure you don't want everyone to know (which I completely understand) however I would demand a meeting with the superintendent and state that your children are not allowed to have her as a teacher.

He/she is bound to confidentiality but I am sure their affair is a breach of her moral contract.

Your husband needs to realize it is a big damn deal for her to interact with your children everyday. Uhm, no...not okay.

You cannot begin to heal with this consistently thrown in your face.

Your husband doesn't sound as remorseful as I would hope.

Please do what is right for you. You shouldn't have to suffer in silence.

Good luck. Be strong and fight for yourself and your children.

(((hugs)))

I definitely would not want my children anywhere near the OW.. especially in a school setting.. Believe me, I have the utmost respect for teachers & have been fortunate to have had some AWESOME ones for my kids..

BUT.. they are human & you don't know that she will be able to separate personal life from school life.. You don't know if she wouldn't treat your children unfairly..

2 semi similar situations happened with my kids..

I used to work at my kids elementary school & one teacher who I was good friends with took offense to something I said jokingly to her & was rude to me for the rest of the year, ignoring me, talking behind my back .. My oldest son was set to have her the following year & I voiced my concerns to the principal & he immediately put DS in another class.. his reasoning was that she might not be able to put her personal feelings aside. FWIW the following year we made up & were close again (still are) & DD had her as a teacher & had a wonderful experience. .

Also, I had posted previously on SI about my OW sister in law possibly becoming my DD teacher in middle school a year after the A & WH was the biggest advocate that DD NOT have her as a teacher, we didn't know if or what the sis in law knew of the A but we didn't want DD to be affected.. My DD did know of the A so her personal feelings were taken into consideration as well.. We did request that DD not be in her class. Funny thing is DD is now in high school & is on student council & last week STUCO went to the elementary schools to help during their 'fun day' & OW sis in law is now a teacher there.. DD had lots of interaction with sis in law but came home & told me she felt uncomfortable, just hearing OW last name (OW uses her maiden name a lot) when someone was talking to sis in law.

ETA: 1Faith is correct.. There is a confidentiality clause that if you do put in a request to not have her, she is NOT to be told why .. my friend NEVER knew I put in a request about her..

[This message edited by philly172 at 2:50 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)]