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And here we are - it seems we are back on the road to reconciliation. Thursday night was a terrible blip in our healing, fueled by alcohol and the OW manipulation.

Thank God for good friends with wise counsel.

This whole situation has been a roller coaster. My ups are brief, and my downs are scary and fast.

I am looking into some guidance on drafting up a NC letter. We have no idea where to start writing one of those things. He now seems to understand the need and how deeply his contact with OW affects me. He is also seeing her manipulation, which for me, is awesome. It just further proves everything I have told him.

NC advice??

It needs to be short and to the point. It needs to be blunt with ZERO efforts to cushion the blow. He should write the draft and you get to approve it before its sent. My H's NC text read...

"We are done...this relationship is over. I love my wife and you are not worth losing her. Do not contact me again in any form."

There was some reply about me making him say it and requiring a password (adolescent losers!) I hadn't found SI so I allowed him to give her the password and tell her they were his words and reaffirm she was never to contact him again.

Of course she made several attempts to contact him. He showed me every one (as should your H) and ignored every one. His phone going off became a trigger for me so H volunteered to change his number...which I appreciated.

Point is, this is not a goodbye or dear John letter, it's a "F@*! off whore!" letter and it needs to read as one. If anything in it gives her a sliver of hope or leaves a door open for her to slither through, then NC will be that much harder.

I'll add to that...

No well wishes for her, no soft or cushy language. It should sound like he is ending a business relationship.

If the letter is to be mailed, you should be the one to do it. I dropped FWH's letter off at the post office so that he couldn't take it out of the mail box after I left for work. It helped me know for certain that the NC letter was sent.

Also, he should block her number, email, Facebook, etc. in front of you and hand over any passwords so that you can check that NC is maintained. If he's sincere about R, he'll be happy to do this in order to prove his commitment.

I am going to share the letter my FWH wrote, TGL. It isn't the typical NC letter that most here at SI recommend. However, I really liked it and we feel it did the trick as we had a junior bunny boiler on our hands, so here goes.

Ms. Other Woman

Mister Sister

Feel free to use any or none of this letter. It makes me smile when I read this letter and I enjoy sharing it.

slight t/j

Love it, SisterMilkshake!! I wish my WH would have sent a NC like that. Instead, it was a glorified Dear John letter full of I want to be friends and I'll miss you and other WH fog bs.

I regret to this day I hadn't found SI before he wrote it so it would have been more like yours. It's amazing how much that subject still really bothers me and strikes a sore nerve.

end t/j

[This message edited by HeartInADustpan at 12:18 AM, June 9th (Sunday)]

A good NC letter ends contact, doesn't create drama and won't right the wrongs of the A. In addition to writing and sending the NC letter your WH has to go NC, and keep NC both physically and mentally.

also just because he seems understand why NC is necessay, doesn't mean much when he goes through withdrawal from his AP. None of this you can control. You can't love him through this process, you can't counsel him through this.

You can outline your boundaries and expectations and the consequences for not abiding by them. (decide what you are really willing to enforce - even if it is just a statement saying you will re-evaluate your desire to remain if he breaks NC)

FWH wanted to leave after an alcohol fueled night. Decided to stay the next morning after we talked and I involved his mother. He understood why he needed to go NC. But he didn't last more than a few days at a time. By not enforcing any consequences and trying to fix myself and our M, he half assed until we had another dday 6 weeks later. By then I was pissed told him to go be with OW. Made plans to take kids for a mini vacay without him so I could think. It jolted him back to reality enough that he ended the A (but then a few weeks later restarted and took underground). He finally sent the NC letter 6 weeks later and honked the OW off so much when she realized he was using her. OW was the one to actually enforce NC when he went fishing for a response from her.

The withdrawal was ugly but came out the other side before my give a shit wore out. He started working on himself and that is the only reason we are still together.

hang in there. Watch his actions you can't trust his words.

I might go a bit shorter on the NC letter.

OW,

What we did was a wrong. I love my wife and want to be with her forever. I am grateful she is giving me a second chance. Please never contact either of us in any way. Ever.

Mr. GreatestLove

Stupid whore,

Do not ever contact me or my wife again. I am committed to healing the damage I have done to my wife,my marriage,and myself. You were,and are,nothing to me. If you attempt contact again,in any way,I will seek legal counsel.

He now seems to understand the need and how deeply his contact with OW affects me. He is also seeing her manipulation, which for me, is awesome. It just further proves everything I have told him.

Gently, he has always understood this TheGreatestLove. Do not cut him any slack on that. He understood, he just chose to do it anyway. It was not alcohol. It was not the OW. It was your WH doing what he wanted to do.

You are not in R yet. You are still in limbo. R takes two people putting everything they have in. Your WH isn't there yet. So don't let up.

Do not take pity on him, do not feel sorry for him. I fear you are in danger of letting the roles get reversed here.

Demand respect from him. If he respects you he will have complete NC with OW. If he respects you he will not get mad and stomp out. If he respects you he will see the great pain you are in and do whatever it takes to heal you.

All energy and effort needs to be focused on healing your pain. Do not let his "pain" at forfeiting his OW take priority.

In addition to a NC letter, your WH must give you complete access to all his email acounts. OW should be blocked from his phone or better yet, his number changed.

My heart hurts so deeply I can barely breathe. I don't understand what my life has become.

Last Thursday, he said he was leaving. He drank so much that he was senseless. My friends and I found him downtown. I made up the guest bed, got him a puke can, provided a glass of ice water a granola bar and ibuprofen. All I know how to do for this man is show him love.

We then spent the weekend together. He admitted that he wasn't himself. He was at a breaking point and drunk when he said he was leaving. I don't feel secure in that he is staying, but he is still here. That means something, at least to me.

We hiked together, ate, talked, slept. We enjoyed our time together. Our life is so filled with drama, and yet we love spending our time together.

Days like these make me feel like we have hope for reconciliation.

Even if you think I'm crazy, you have to know how I feel. I can't be the only person in the world to love this much. I have been described by a friend as the "Rocky of Love." I get punched, and I get back up.

I want to love him so fiercely that it cannot be ignored. If it were me, I would not want to be given up on. I believe in treating the other as I wish to be treated. That is what I am doing.

I understand what you are feeling, but you can't love him back.

one of the things I realized about myself is that I am codependant. I was always the soft place to land. There were days I would treat him more like a child than my partner. One of the hardest things I had to do was just let him fall.

You can't "nice" him out of the affair. If he is still involved with the OW,all you are doing is allowing him to use you.

TheGreatestLove your WH is not the victim here. You are.

What is your WH doing for you? Has he sent a NC letter? Has he given you all his passwords? Has he shown you all his emails? Facebook? Skype? Do you have full access to his phone?

If you don't have all of these, then you have to realize he is STILL in a relationship with another woman. You being the Rocky of Love is simply allowing him to keep BOTH of you.

Gently, but here is a 2x4. Actually, you aren't being Rocky. You are waiting for the OW to stand up for herself and say enough so that your WH has no choice but to fall back on you as his back up plan.

(((TGL)))

It sucks to be in your situation. I too was where you are. You need to be very clear with him. What your conditions for R. Waht you DEMAND, and yes it is OK for you to DEMAND. You are vested in this relationship, and can see what you need to make it work.

Sounds as though he is still foggy though, and this can lead to more heartache for you. Be clear what the consequences of breaking NC are, and plan on sticking to them. Make him write the NC letter. It should be short, and to the point.

Dear X

Do not call, write, or contact me EVER again, in any form.

You must know that I am commited to my marriage, and my wife, and you have no part in that. If you do contact us again, TGL will know moments after I do, and you will be ignored.

Get yourself to a Lawyer, find out what your rights are. Knowledge is power, Power is strength. This will give you an idea that even if he does leave you will be just fine. This helps you to stick to your rules of R.

He is to be completely transparent with you. Access to all electronics ( I would also put a keylogger on his computer, and tablet, and phone if possible ) . Broken NC is common, and unfortunately puts you back at the beginning of R if he hides it. You have to know when it happens.

Lastly focus on you, and your little ones. Eat, Drink (water), sleep. If you are not able to do these things see your Dr ASAP. Medications for anxiety can help, and make it easier for you to deal with this.

Read all thos links that were posted this too will give you strength. Reach out to someone IRL so that you can have some support.

((((and strength))))

TGL,

There is an expression "tough love"

and that is what you need to be doing. You can still love him, however, you have every right to all your demands no matter how difficult it maybe for him. Remember, there are consequences for his behavior.

You are getting excellent advice here.

We have all been through this in some form or another. Be on the alert. I hate to be cynical but I do not think the A is over.

I know you want badly to R and feel by showing him compassion, love and understanding that he will stay away from ow. Odds are he won't. After Dday #1 my fwh begged to come back so we went to MC and he swore all was over (he's an SA) .

We had been going to MC for about 18 mos when I found out (on my own) that nothing had changed - he just went deeper underground.I told him to leave and I wanted to S.

It's been a year since then and we

are again in MC and he is in an SA program.

Please keep your guard up and make sure your demands are met.

Such a roller coaster. I just wish the train would stop doing the stomach dropping loops.

Today I talked with our MC; I had a personal visit, and then we had an additional visit with my WS. My husband is so lost, in such a fog. He has no idea what he believes or where he wants to be. He is searching for happiness as an external factor. I believe that happiness is something you develop within yourself and allow it to permeate the rest of your life.

He has a romanticized fantasy of what love and marriage are. He thinks it is all fireworks and rainbows. Love is so much more than that. My love for him is deep, all encompassing. It is not easily swayed. It is not easily distracted. Infatuation can be distracted, swayed, and fizzle.

I want so much more for my life than the intense, infatuation/obsession phase of a relationship. If I had only been in that phase for him when this occurred, I would've hit the hills long ago.

I appreciate everyone's advice about finding a lawyer, etc. I am not ready for that. When I feel that I reach that point, I will jump right on it. Consistent love, patient love, love that is not selfish- that is what this man responds to. He had a horrible childhood, and running out on him during his darkest hour would do more damage than just ending our marriage. I value him too much to inflict such trauma. I understand that you might think I am naive, that I am not. My friends and counselor have all said that I have handled this situation better than anyone ever would've expected someone to. I must act intentionally. I must respond, rather than react. By giving thoughtful response, I am sure to display what I want, rather than show a brash and impulsive answer.

I also want to be intentional in my actions for my children's sake. When they are old enough, regardless of the relationship's outcome, I want to be able to look them in the eyes and tell them I did everything I possibly could. That I loved their Dad unconditionally. That I made conscious decisions about how my actions may affect them.

My WS is a loving father. Running away now would only complicate his relationship with our girls. Especially at their age, they would feel abandoned. I cannot do that to them. I don't want to leave. I don't want to throw his things on the lawn. I don't want to respond in such an immature way. I want to love the way I wish to be loved in return. Maybe no one will understand me. At this point, it doesn't matter. I am following my convictions. I am doing what my deepest inner core tells me to do. If I did whatever my head told me to do, I would've caused so much irreversible harm by now. That is not how I want to live my life.

I also want my actions, if we do reconcile and have a lifelong time together, to be actions I can be proud of later on down the road. I don't want to be asked, "Why were you so hateful with XYZ?" "Why did you say XYZ in such anger?"

Can anyone relate?!

With all that being said what has he done to remove OW from his life and work on your relationship? You have made it clear what you are doing... what is he doing?

[This message edited by Dark Inertia at 8:05 PM, June 10th (Monday)]

We are somewhat in a holding pattern on that. We are also on a holding pattern in our relationship. He didn't leave, but he isn't all in. He isn't responding to her messages, but he is reading them. I am also reading them. He has her blocked on just about every device/app, but one.

The question you might ask yourself...do you think he's better off with OW? And if you answer no (obviously) then do you love him enough to help him make the best decision for him? He is sick. Broken. Can you trust him to make good decisions for himself?

You will do what you feel you must, and we will be here for you no matter what course of action you take. But I haven't seen any BS nice their WS's back to fidelity. I tried, and it only wrote him free pass to keep the loving wife at home, and the glittery fantasy on the side. Win/win for him.

After dday2, a month later, I accepted that I couldn't control him - I could only control me. And I asked for a divorce. I was calm. I was loving. I surrendered. "if you need her this badly, then I concede" - he realized that life with only the glittery fantasy would be lonely and unfulfilling...and came out of his fog. He told me later on our path to healing, that he would have hung onto to her for as long as he could....if I hadn't taken a stand - he would have continued the A.

You are a very loving woman. That is obvious. But do you love him enough to save him from himself?

TGL

Unfortunately you are fighting TWO other women.

There's the human woman. Then there's the bottle.

You have the require sobriety from both addictions, or you will visit this hurt again and again, until your greatest love is shredded, your youth gone, your children fully developed coping patterns that will define and possibly destroy their lives.

For everything you call meaningful, including your husband's soul, you must stand firm and turn him over to God - and walk away from taking platitudes and excuses instead of action.

Otherwise, the fight of your life has no bell to order parties to their corners. It's three against one. Him, the OW and the bottle against you - let down your guard and find yourself suckerpunched again, like last week. Never forget that pain and demand from yourself that you will not feel it again.

I gave my husband 30 minutes to give me a plan for sobriety from porn and OW and all forms of secret second life, AND ADDICTION TO UNDEREMPLOYMENT or he could be gone by the time I got home that night. And he finally figured out that half-assed measures don't count with me.

You can't carry him. Find an Al-Anon meeting for yourself, either online or live and learn how your soft landing for him with ibuprofen and granola bars really undermined his respect for you and what it really means to stand up for your love by requiring different behaviors and NOT being that soft landing for him anymore.

Get out of his Higher Power's way and let the man find his bottom so that he will find a need to be sober. You must no longer save him from that crash.