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She sounds predatory. She might take it up as a challenge if your WH had to tell her to back off. She might think he was "attracted" to her and is telling her to back off as he might not be able to control himself around her. I worked with a woman who did stuff like this and when told to back off thought exactly that. He still has to tell her though and if she does not back off tell her H and break off the friendship.

...or you guys can make out like teenagers at every opportunity, build a little "love cocoon" around yourselves, appropriately of course

Slight t/j I.M.E since WH confessed to the A there have been more women sending out available signals and I have had the same issue with men. Do we send out some sort of vibe that our M is in trouble even though we don't act so??? I liken it to blood in the water and the sharks are circling. end t/j

[This message edited by TheTooGoodWife at 8:20 AM, July 12th (Friday)]

Ugh. Yeah. HE needs to say something, not you. Sorry your friend is acting like a tramp.

Aren't we all programmed to "play nice"? My life story. I have gotten to a place where I don't want to offend someone even tho they are being truly offensive and disrespectful. Because of this, it is sometimes difficult to see another way of doing things.

I get this. I was the same way. IC helped me a great deal with that (now I don't give a rat's ass what people think )

She sounds predatory

I agree.

LA, you or your H didn't do anything "wrong" at all - I love it that your H was directly affectionate toward you...herein lies the point I think that we're making. If, in spite of your H CLEARLY showing how he feels about you and she continues to act inappropriately, that is a big show of utter and complete disrespect for both your M and your friendship. Let that piss you off. That's how I finally was able to accept that the xOW was no longer (and honestly, never was in hindsight) my friend.

Hugs!!

[This message edited by Lalagirl at 9:06 AM, July 12th (Friday)]

If this were happening to my W I would not like it either. That said, I wouldn't say anything. I would talk to my W about it and have her talk for herself. The conversation of her needing to cut off a predator would be better for her in establishing her boundaries that me doing it for her.

I would ask her to tell the man that she is not comfortable with touching and flirting. She should protect her own boundaries...I don't want to be vigilant like that for her forever. People need to learn to take care of themselves...

Just my two cent....

take care...

For anyone stuck in the "playing nice" role, I highly recommend Gavin deBecker's The Gift of Fear.

That said, HE needs to tell her to stop, that's she out of line and disrespectful. Period. It SUCKS when you first have to learn to enforce the boundary, but awesome later on.

On the one hand most here are telling LA that she doesn't need to play nice but then right on the other hand you are telling her to stay out of it.

Personally, I believe both WH and LA should talk to this woman if you really want to continue this "friendship". Maybe include the H, why should he be kept in the dark? Sounds kind of like keeping secrets to me.

I have a similar problem going on Up North. A wannabe OW, a drunken flirt with no boundaries. Then pretends to be my friend and I am supposed to be all smiley and nice. Makes me want to vomit! I am not an actress. Dagger eyes, dontcha' know.

Yes, MisterSister needs to defend his boundaries, like MrLA does. FWH is one that always tries to "play nice" and is a conflict avoider. Especially if he feels the person is just being nice and that they don't mean anything by it, giving them the benefit of the doubt.

But, what I want to talk about to the "flirt" Up North about is her complete two facedness to me. I don't want to tell her to back the eff of my FWH, he can do that. I want to tell her I feel she is a classless two faced *&^%$, etc. etc. and don't be acting all nicey nicey to my face whilst stabbing me in the back. I want to tell her she is just a b**** and that she should just own it! Don't be acting all nice to me 'cause thats not who you are. We can just throw dagger eyes at each other all day and I'ld be fine with that because at least its real.

I feel you have a right to confront your friend on her behaviour, not so much as to say back off, but to let her know that her behaviour is whatever you feel it is, LA44, and that you won't tolerate it. That is standing up for yourself, I feel.

I agree that your H should be the one to speak to her; he should take her aside, then say quietly but firmly: "You are making me feel uncomfortable. Please stop touching me." Then walk back to you and avoid her for the rest of the evening. No need to make a scene.

Exactly what Sad in AZ said. This is a good time for your H to learn how to stand up for his boundaries and your marriage. You might consider whether the both of you could take her aside together or whether he should do it alone. It could send a strong message if you're together, especially if your H is holding your hand when he does it, that you two are a team, even if only your H does the talking.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 12:05 PM, July 12th (Friday)]

This is probably incredibly petty of me but I wonder what she would do if you started flirting with HER husband.

We had a situation a while back where, not a friend of ours, but a friend of my sisters was, IMO, being inappropriate with H touching and following him around while we were at social events. H said he didn't see it until our daughter was with us one time and she was outraged. She told H how inappropriate the woman was acting and that she was tempted to say something to this woman...(our kids do not know about the A).

Next time H and I were together at a party she came right over to us all smiles and H pretended to be busy with something in the yard. He mumbled hi but didn't give her a chance to get close enough to touch. I was standing right there and it was pretty awkward as H continued to talk with me like she wasn't there but it seems to have worked as she finally walked away. She hasn't approached either of us since.

this subject just came up today between mr unfound and I. great timing

two different situations.

first, there is a baseball parent that we know, are friendly/cordial with, but aren't friends with. over time, he has slowly encroached on my boundary about physical touch. I don't like to be hugged, or be the hugger, either by women and especially men. even before dday..it's just me and my personal space issues. started with attempted high fives when the team did good, a pat on the back etc... he acts this way with everyone, not just me. red flag, but not "personal" or inappropriate in what I see as social interactions (not looking through A glasses). I did not reciprocate or engage and gave physical AND verbal signs (politely) that it wasn't cool with me. "hey, I'm not a touchy feely kinda gal, no offense", backing away, keeping my distance, holding my arms out saying "personal space"...

a couple of days ago, this parent put both his hands on my shoulders, physically (not aggressively) turned me around, asking to see a tattoo on my back. . niceness went out the window. like a bullet. a bullet on crack.

"do NOT touch me. EVER."

he back stepped and tried to play it off as a joke, shocked, like I was over reacting, he seemed offended in an "I'm a jerk but think I'm all that" way. I could give a shit less what he thinks.

I told mr unfound about it today (he wasn't at the game or home that night..crap going on at home the next day.. long story). he asked if I thought he needed to say anything to mr touchy feely. nope. I handled it. but if it continues or happens in front of him, all bets are off.

point is, we've talked about situations, or at least general situations, like this beforehand, and I was prepared, as he is if it would happen to him. plan in place and working .

second situation:

new friends of ours are going through some rough things now, as are we (life crap, not affair related). we've gotten to know this couple and like them, in most part because they seem to have the same values, boundaries and parenting as we do. we're pretty particular as to who we let into our very small inner circle . example: the husband apologized for calling mr unfound at work, then when he didn't answer, called me in regards to above mentioned life crap. he explained that while it may seem old fashioned, he would always call mr unfound first, as a sign of respect to us, and his wife. why? I don't know and it's non of my business, but I do know that I respect that and see it as a good boundary.

in talking with him (in person) the other day, as he was leaving, he shook mr unfounds hand, then came in to hug me. **screeeeeeech* I immediately tense up, back step and awkwardly do the handshake that ended up poking him in the stomach. thing is, if it wasn't for my personal space issues (and again, not looking through A glasses) the hug was appropriate for the situation at hand. a sign of comfort and well wishes. I get that. still......

mr unfound told me he was okay with hugging new friend, it didn't bother him in the least, if it did, he would tell me, and he knew I would say something to protect my own boundaries. he also said he'd hug-blocked friends wife (again, a situation appropriate hug) and she's never tried to hug him again. she got it right off the bat. another reason I think we can be friends. some people are just huggers I guess .

we're at the point in our R that we're aware that not all boundaries are cut and dry. as in the hugging/physical contact thing. we're not so fresh that it's off limits in all situations (oh it was at first!!), but we're far enough out that we've got tools in place that we're comfortable and skilled in using and are confident that each of us know what's appropriate and what's not.

there's a million ways, nice or not, to defend boundaries. maybe sitting down and brainstorming some with your H will help you each find your own tools and make using them easier.

we on many many occasions went through simulated scenarios and how we'd handle them. "if Sally tries to hug you, what would you do/say?" "how will you handle it?" next time we see hangeron lady, what are we going to do if she does xyz?

sounds corny and cheesy, but practicing and having a plan for those possible occurrences really really helped us.

don't know if any of this is advice or not, but it was coincidence that we JUST had a talk about a kind of similar situation .

[This message edited by unfound at 2:57 PM, July 12th (Friday)]

Can you update us on this, too, LA44? Did you see said "friend" on Monday? How did it go?