SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I don't know. to be honest. That card sounds like it might be a message to your husbands OW. I know it is to her mother, about her husband's death, but it seems more like a "Wait for me, we might be together someday"kind of card. She will show it to the OW. And you said the mother was a go between.

No Contact with either of them no matter what. Your husband still seems way to invested in these people. And get new counclers. WTF is up with them?

To me, it seems to me that my husband is incapable of empathy but I could be wrong. So far, he is doing what he is told but has a hard time going beyond that. The MC told him that he will need to learn about body language, facial expression, and emotions. If it is possible for him to do that, I would rather stay. I am scared that he won't be able to though. He hasn't been officially diagnosed with narcissism but my IC, who has only heard my side of the story, has suggested its possible.

MystiKay, when I read the card I saw the same thing you did. It matched their plan to "work" on their "primary relationships" so that when they got together, they would do so without guilt. When I asked him why he bought that card instead of a card about "sorry you lost your husband" he said there werent' any and this seemed good because it talked about HOPE. At least he isn't going to send it.

I do need to learn to be a lover of myself. I have gotten lost in this marriage and raising kids. The kids are almost grown and their choices are breaking my heart too. I am working on building friendships, hobbies, and getting a job that gives me financial independence.

The MC told him that he will need to learn about body language, facial expression, and emotions.

Learn? As in being taught?

Not looking good here. I mean, who needs to be taught those things?

Which is why it scares the heck outta me you'd say

If it is possible for him to do that, I would rather stay.

Understand - he's just mirroring emotions.

Mimicking them.

Not really feeling them.

Hard to believe you'd be ok with that.

It's corrosive to your soul.

In time, it turns you into a hollow, sucked-out husk.

Don't ask me how I know.

Well, he certainly wasn't thinking of you or your feelings OR your marriage when he did this.

It's wrong. NC means NO contact. None. Nada. Zip. Zero.

As many of you know, I train dogs (well, actually owners, but that's another matter entirely). When I give the command, "Leave it" I mean, "Don't look at it, don't think of it, don't smell it, don't see it. It isn't there. Nothing about it is there. It's nothing you need to think about." I use this to teach dogs to quit chasing other dogs, cats, getting into things they shouldn't, etc.

"Leave it" means you better put your eyes on me like three seconds ago and not take them off of me. And, when you do that, I praise you and we have a good time, maybe treats, certainly peace and bonding. Glance back and suffer the consequences.

I am by no means an abusive trainer. However, deliberate violation of a command gets an immediate correction and redirection. They quickly learn that it's much better to look at me and enjoy the consequences of that action than it is to continue looking at or thinking of whatever I told them to leave alone. After a while it becomes automatic and there is a harmony that develops between a dog and trainer.

I'm not comparing your husband to a dog. Animal behavior is animal behavior though.

Learn? As in being taught?

Not looking good here. I mean, who needs to be taught those things?

Which is why it scares the heck outta me you'd say

If it is possible for him to do that, I would rather stay.

Understand - he's just mirroring emotions.

Mimicking them.

Not really feeling them.

Gotta jump on the bandwagon here. It sounds like the goal is to teach him how to better fake genuine emotions, which will unwittingly make him a better con.

The reason I would rather stay than go is because I am 53 and have been with him for 30 years. I don't know anything else. i have poured my life into our marriage and family. The kids will be leaving in a month and I plan to continue building my own life with greater energy. I started doing this when I found out he was cheating in March. I am still broken and feel beaten down by all that has happened in the past 5/6 years. I know I am stronger than I ever thought possible since I have had to go through it without a loving supportive husband. I am not sure I am strong enough to add a divorce, moving out and finding a full time job to the devastation in my life right now. I need to breathe and figure out where I am at before moving forward. I also still have things to work on in the marriage so if I do leave, I can leave knowing that I did all I could.

I am really scared. REALLY SCARED.

As for EasyDoesIts comment. You can't compare my H to a dog. Dogs are faithful and loyal!

Fear is one of the ways our abusers keep us shackled to them.

It's useless to say; "Don't be scared." Because it's very real.

You do have to face it though, or face being ground down to a nub.

I feel ya (((LTF))) I really do.

My suggestion is to quietly go about getting your ducks in a row...all the while gaining more strength.

You can do it!

You are stronger and smarter than you believe - or - have been led to believe.

Quietly. To reduce the drama.

These types don't like it when they start getting hints they're about to lose their supply.

How do I know this stuff? Because in the middle of the shitstorm comes this grinner:

You can't compare my H to a dog. Dogs are faithful and loyal!

Good on ya.

Sending bundles and bundles of strength your way.

Learning to Fly,

I feel the same way I am going to be lonely with or without him. But, I would like to quote Robert Williams when he said, "I used to think the worst thing in life is to end up all alone, it's not, the worse thing is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." I hold on to that when trying to R with my H.

Here's to you, I hope you feel better soon, I'll keep you in my thoughts.

I am working on building friendships, hobbies, and getting a job that gives me financial independence.

So glad to hear this^^

You can't compare my H to a dog. Dogs are faithful and loyal!

And to see you still have a sense of humor^^

Learningtofly, I was in a similar situation: my life = my family, hadn't worked a real job in 15 years, homeschooled the kids, and now the kids were grown. I was married for 32 years at the time of D.

When I came to the conclusion he wasn't capable of empathy, the kids both looked at me like "duh". They'd concluded that much earlier on.

I just want to encourage you to focus on you, your life - setting yourself up to be independent. Not because I'm predicting anything, just because it is wise for women of our age (I'm 55). It is why we encourage our girls to go to college and get a degree. They may drop out of the workforce to raise a family - but we want them to have that fall back position - employable skills, a degree.

And just so you know. I've been alone for 5 years (D for 1 year). I'm okay. I haven't tried to date - not sure I ever will, not that I don't want companionship - but I'm not sure I will ever be able to trust or sacrifice for a relationship again...

But love comes in many forms - I love what I do, love the kids I work with, love my dds and my dgd. My life is busy, I am learning new things, and even did a bit of traveling...

My life isn't horrible, I'm not even lonely, but for the occasional down day. And if I am honest - I was alone in the M, lonelier in the M, and just plain old stuck - being, and feeling used. And I'm not scared anymore - not sure what I was scared of in the first place. Just the unknown I guess.

Funny thing about the unknown - it is what you make it:

(((LTF)))

You have a cheering section! It is scary. Change is scary. One of my coping mechanisms is to LEARN (to fly) by gathering information.

Read about this lack of empathy. Observe patterns of behavior. Take note of what triggers his behavior and yours.

Once you have the information, then you can decide what "flying" looks like for you. You can do this. Everything about you projects that you have it in you.

You can't compare my H to a dog. Dogs are faithful and loyal!

And to see you still have a sense of humor^^

A sense of humor can get one through many things. Before my divorce was final I joked around that if, by some stroke of extreme luck, the SOB got hit by a truck, I'd have him cremated and use him for kitty litter. I would have done it too, and I don't care how bad that sounds.