SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Not A related, so if mods need to move, please do. No, it's his BP, I believe, and incredible stress we're under right now, like sword of Damocles poised over us. A lawsuit ruling that will literally make or break us.

Having said that (and I'm not putting that out there as justifications or excuses, only as background), we were taking a load of our daughter's college stuff down to her school.

Let me preface this by saying that my H has not had an accident in 30 years, but he's a fast, aggressive driver, who has made all of us nervous if not downright scared at some point.

Everything seems absolutely fine until we're at a stoplight and the person in front either thinks to quickly go, then changes their mind, or H thinks they're going to go, then they don't. Either way, H revs, then slams on the brakes, doesn't hit the car in front, but all sorts of stuff in the car flies forward. No one says anything (years of conditioning), I just rearrange the stuff, and grab the handgrip in the car.

We come up on the next light, and I can't exactly remember, but I think it was a hard stop. H turns to me and says get out. I say no. Our daughter from the back starts to say something, he says, "Shut up, and just tell me where to turn." Which she does. She tells him the house is coming up on the right, and there are a few nose-in parking spots right it front, but it's a narrow, busy street. He's going fast, can't turn into the spot, a car is on his tail, he guns it further up the road and turns left into an apartment complex parking lot, and almost backs into one, then a second car turning into the complex as he tries to back out onto the street ("Wait, there's a car. Hold on, there's another one.") He's across from the house, and now is going to back in, but there's another car on his tail, and a car coming towards him that he will surely hit as he sharply angles to reverse in. I yell, Stop/No, something, he jams the car into park and jumps out saying , "I'm outta here," I think, maybe more. I get into the driver's seat and back it in, meanwhile our DD bursts into tears in the back.

We unload (I have the car keys), my DD and I move everything inside, sweep, assemble her bed, while H sits out front. Again nothing is said to him. Again years of conditioning -- one look at his constipated face and you know talking is futile.

We finish, come out, unlock the car, he reaches in to get his phone, glasses, creds, and steps back. I get in the driver's seat, DD says to him that we're ready, so let's go, and he lets loose with, "Fuck you, fuck you, you're both bitches and go fuck yourselves." She asks what she did or said, what is he going to do, and he just comes back with, "Don't come near me, fuck you, fuck you both, I'm not going anywhere with you," and walks off.

So..... that was yesterday around 3pm, in a town 1.5 hours away from us. We had many errands to do, which we did, and as we were just about to leave the town DD left a message on his phone (that was turned off), saying in a very neutral voice that we were heading home now and could come pick him up. Several other calls (didn't leave any more messages), and we drove home.

Now it's 11 am the next day, and all I know (from looking at our online banking) is that

he might have bought a train ticket and stayed at a Hilton. Even more BP behavior; spending money we don't have.

I'm surprisingly calm, not spinning my wheels worrying about him (!!), but worried about my DD. We did talk a great deal as we drove, and I suggested her having some sessions with our MC, who's a family counselor also, but right now she doesn't want to do that. I'll keep the lines of communication fully open with her.

After so many years of escalating behavior I think I'm indoctrinated. But I'm also thinking how this see saw has impacted my kids, who don't deserve this at all -- and I realize neither do I.

Do I treat this like a Dday? Throw his ass out? Have him picked up? Have him committed? The stupid mood disorder muddies the water for me, but what I'm most worried about is finances. We're so teetering on the edge that with debit card in hand he can virtually wipe out our account.

Sorry this is long and all over the place. Your thoughts and opinions are very appreciated.

Online, I can log into my account - the one my debit card is tied to - and transfer funds to another account.

Like savings, etc.

You can protect money that way until you get to the bank.

If it were me, I'd be there when it opens 1st thing in the morning.

I couldn't live with it, so my vote is GTFO.

Report his debit card as stolen.. Then, file. It needs to stop. So worry about YOU and your kids. He could have had a serious wreck and killed you or your daughter. Please, get out and get counseling for you and the kids!

I am still new here and don't have a lot of experience with something like this. That said, two things from an outsider perspective:

1. (((To you and your daughter)))

2. Neither of you deserve this.

My WS likely has a serious PD and his parents and brother have BP. You can try to get them help, but they have to want to take care of themselves. Your H sounds like he is far from that place.

Personally, I would file for your own sake and for your daughter.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 11:30 AM, August 4th (Sunday)]

I am so sorry. This is not a healthy relationship for anyone. I couldn't imagine living like this.

You can also ask your bank to put a daily spending limit on his card. This is a protection should your card get stolen. It prevents your account from being emptied. You may want to see if you can just limit his and not the entire account.

((hugs))

He sounds self destructive and dangerous to those around him. I would 180 him. I would insist you daughter speak to a counselor. Speaking from personal experience, parents saying that kind of stuff to their kids sticks with them a lifetime and can affect their future relationships. Use the time alone to figure out what you want and if you even want to deal with him. He has effectively abandoned you. He is clearly not concerned with anyone but himself. It sounds like you have endured enough. .

He sounds like he is unravelling. I would leave as soon as possible. BP do not get better but they do get more dangerous.

Cancel his card and see a lawyer and move out. This is enough. He will not become a better man, ever.

I dealt with a BP and I know.

You admit you are conditioned.

I was too.

He WILL NOT change unless HE wants to.

I had many similar experiences. Why I let him sit around and sulk while I did all the work, letting him be a complete ass in front of the kids, abandoning us, wasting our money, I have no idea..

DO NOT justify this as a one-time thing. You said yourself you are conditioned, so I would think you have experienced this type of behavior numerous times. IT'S NOT NORMAL.

I agree with jjct. If you don't know what GTFO means, it means "GET THE FUCK OUT."

Protect you and your kids. Show them what a healthy relationship is, and how to react to an unhealthy one. Do NOT train her as well to accept this type of abuse or think this is normal. Counseling ASAP for you both. It has done wonders for my little boys and I..

Please be strong.. Which I've learned doesn't mean lash back at him or try to "help" him. It means leave him/180 him/protect yourself (and your money).

Huge hugs..

He may certainly be under a huge strain but you have that strain as well as his stuff to deal with. Not easy for either of you but no excuse for bad treatment of you and DD. I grew up in these same circumstances and it left me feeling afraid to speak up and hugely insecure. Hugs and courage to you and DD. put yourselves first and do what you know you need to do.

Wow.

Thanks for the ride back to college, dad.

Your story was one I can relate to, big time. This sounds like my dad when I was growing up, only ten times worse. You and your daughter have already been damaged psychologically by his controlling and out of control anger. I'm sure a lot of damage has been done. I hope y'all can get help with healing. It will be with your daughter for her entire life. It will be with you too, but the difference is (very gently here) that you always had a choice to end it, to leave. She did not.

The money part is pretty easy to handle. He can only do so much damage to the account over the weekend, so no big worry there. First thing tomorrow morning, go transfer 1/2 of all money into your a new account, which only you can access.

What to do about him? I guess it depends how much you're willing to be abused and allow your daughter to be abused. You said you've all been conditioned over the years. Yes, I understand. He controls everyone with his anger. You allow it.

You make excuses for him.

Perhaps you can create conditions for not filing for divorce. Something like:

1. He gets immediate treatment for his behavior problems.

2. He apologizes to you and your daughter, together and individually.

3. He acknowledged that this was 100% his doing.

4. He understands that any similar kind of behavior in the future will be the end of the marriage.

5. He must start IC immediately.

6. Etc.

Important: Please, please, please, for the sake of your daughter, do NOT sweep this under the rug. This is a huge problem that MUST be addressed. If he can't address his issues immediately,he needs to know that the consequences will be immediate and severe. You MUST, MUST draw a hard line in the sand on this. Do not be afraid. You hold the power now. You are now going to strip,him of his controlling ways, one way or the other.

NO MAS.

I don't know your history, but it sounds to me like he created a situation where he could walk away and spend time away, nice hotel, whatever. Is there any way you can call the hotel and find out how many people stayed in the room?

Do I treat this like a Dday? Throw his ass out? Have him picked up? Have him committed? The stupid mood disorder muddies the water for me, but what I'm most worried about is finances. We're so teetering on the edge that with debit card in hand he can virtually wipe out our account.

Yes, treat it like a D-day. Inform him that you are throwing him out, pack up his shit and change the locks. Cancel his debit card.

Stop allowing this man to put you and your daughter in danger for your lives! Not to mention the emotional abuse!

(((WaryOptimist)))

Sounds like you should be out of there. Sounds like he is a danger to himself as well as others.....

From the way you describe it, it sounds like a restraining order might be needed. Sounds out of control dangerous to me. I would fear for the safety and well being of both you and your daughter. If you were my daughter my advice would be "run like hell", get away from him and fast.

Just a quick tip. I worked in banking and if the customer who's name was attached to the debit card was not in front of us we could not put a hold, limit or cancellation on it. Technically we were not even allowed into their profile because even if it is a joint account each owner has a separate profile with their information on it. Transferring the money into a sole ownership account in your name is probably the easiest and best way to proceed when it comes to the money. You can also close a joint account with only one owner present in case your worried about him overdrafting if you move the money.

[This message edited by Unagie at 6:07 PM, August 4th (Sunday)]

Okay, I have to speak up here.

I am bipolar and reading all this thread and related are *really* hard on me. Granted, I am a bipolar with intense interest in making sure I have proper care and I have great healers working with me regularly BUT there was a time I was undiagnosed and had no idea that I was behaving improperly. I had zero understanding from anyone, no one sought help for me. I was left to my own disastrous devices and I STILL, many years later, suffer from the stigma of those years and the years that followed diagnosis when no one but my mom had any care or interest in me.

That's just my background in a tiny nutshell.

It sounds like you have a diagnosis on your husband. Is he in therapy or medicated or seeing a naturopath or anyone who is helping him with his issues?

To everyone:

I'm sorry, but while it is awful when a bp acts like this, abandoning him is much the same as infidelity or abject abandonment ( want to see someone go from a BP diagnosis to a BPD diagnosis quick? Abandon them when they need you most.)

Yes, of course kids need protecting from abuse...no question but you probably wouldn't leave someone with cancer because they lashed out incomprehensibly toward you and your child....I'm just guessing but most people have far more understanding for someone with cancer than they do with a BP person.

I'll lay it out from my own perspective.

Bipolar is not something chosen.

It is brain chemistry.

Bipolar people typically live in severe guilt and shame...because of who we are. The burden we place on the people who are unfortunate enough to be our caregivers....because of the things we have done when we weren't in control of our actions.

In case anyone wonders, it's part of why so many of us kill ourselves. We literally feel that everyone would be better off without us and we get sick to fucking death of living in guilt...and reading constant posts suggesting that no one should ever stay with us or realize we have a very serious issue.

I can't tell you how many times its been said that bipolar is no excuse to do certain things.

I am a huge believer in consequence for action and taking responsibility for things I do BUT I remember not even knowing many of the things I did during this one, long, particularly disastrous period of my life pre-diagnosis. I recently said this to someone else so I apologize to them if they are reading it for the second time but it was the first time I'd really thought of it this way. I acted as if I was high but I had NOT chosen to take drugs. I acted as if I was happy drunk but I had NOT chosen to drink. I made poor choices with absolutely NO inhibitions but I had done NOTHING to cause this completely foreign to me behavior...NOTHING except come from a long line of severely bipolar people.

If I had made choices to take drugs or drink etc...sure, you could blame me for my out of control behavior but I didn't even remember later what I'd been doing and I did nothing to cause this. I am shameful for things I do remember or just know about from others etc...but could I do anything to help it at that time? No. I didn't know I was bipolar. I didn't know I needed help. No one was looking out for me.

So...back to the OP. Only you know if he's in therapy or taking proactive measures to manage his illness. It is hard after dealing with it for so long that you are almost numb but in those cases, I'd suggest you seek counseling to help you and your kids cope properly. He sounds like he needs some serious help and his drivers license taken away. I'll tell you right now, I wish to all the gods that be that someone had hospitalized me during a part of my messed up history. I don't know that he's there but it sounds like he needs some serious evaluation and a chance to get help. My dad is much like what you describe...and I have seen him suffer so much numbing guilt, shame and pain because he doesn't know how to handle himself. His case is a little different and I mean no disrespect to anyone reading this but my dad and family are very religious and supposedly my dad was healed and he went off of lithium and quit all help because, he was, you know...healed! >.< He wasn't but no one but me has had any sympathy for him or caring since.

To everyone:

I guess this is all just cautionary. I see so often people writing about that little wedding vow gem, 'for better or for worse. In sickness and in health' but it doesn't seem to apply to mental illnesses. Just to cheating spouses who broke their vows to a sick spouse or similar or whatever the instance is.

Sorry-ish for the rant but god...bipolar people are sick and will probably suffer more guilt and pain than most people. Please, don't love us or stay with us when the going gets tough because its too hard on you. Wait, did your cheating spouse tell you that he cheated and/or left because things were hard in some way? Wait, what? Better or worse goes both ways and it shouldn't be so glibly thrown around to just leave. If the OP's husband refuses treatment, then fine...consider leaving but it is SO not black and white nor should it be treated as such. If ever in doubt, substitute the word 'cancer' for 'bipolar' and see how big of an ass you look like when you give advice broadly to 'just leave'. It might be eye opening.

Just to be clear, my ranting is not aimed at the OP. This just triggers so many things in me. I hope some of it makes some sense.

I agree bi-polar people are sick.

It does not mean you stay in an unhealthy environment and it definitely does not mean you let your daughter be subjected to the abuse you quote above.

(((hugs))) to you and your dd. I cannot imagine the turmoil you must be in

[This message edited by karmahappens at 11:00 PM, August 4th (Sunday)]

WaryOptimist - BP is an illness and it is hard to control. My mother and my brother are BP. I grew up with the up and down behavior. It is hard dealing with BP but you have to draw the line to rage and abuse. You have to protect yourself and your children.

BeautifulEmpty - You described what BP person goes through and it is difficult. However having lived with families members who are BP I can tell you that when the maniac side is brought out it is very difficult if not impossible to reason with a BP person - I know this because I have done this with my mother and brother. It is even more difficult when they self medicate (drinking, pain meds and other drugs). I understand the can't abandon them but when it comes to safety you have to get them out of the house. My brother at the worst choked my SIL, threw her against the wall and threw a chair at her all in the presence of their very young children. When it comes to safety if you can't get them to realize what they are doing and they are in a rage you are putting your life at risk, you have to somehow leave or get them to leave. It is about safety. I felt awful for my brother went through but I couldn't live myself if something happened to my SIL and their kids. I urged my brother to get help and told my SIL if he didn't she needed to get him out of the house. As a child I was verbally abused and hit by my mother when she was in her manic depressed state and I was too young to protect myself. Our family didn't abandon my mother or my brother. We told my brother we are there as long as he does what he needs to do.

BP is very hard to deal with and I wish we had better avenues for help that don't mean having them arrested and jailed.

BP is very hard to deal with and I wish we had better avenues for help that don't mean having them arrested and jailed.

psych holds are an option.

Wonderinewhy11

I agree with you. I am bipolar, I'm very aware of what it can entail...my point is, after reading this thread as well as many others...I hear a ton of 'just leave' and almost no 'in sickness and in health'.

I'm saying there is a balance but when people start just yelling 'leave' they seem to be forgetting what that would look like if you were dealing with cancer or a mentally disabled person and were saying the same things. No, you can't submit yourself to abuse...I said that above...but it isn't black and white 'just leave'.

Read the I Can Relate forum about bipolar spouses or any number of forums outside of SI. It's sad and at this point in my relatively calmer life, I'm the betrayed spouse but I'm speaking up because it just isn't that simple. Bipolar people do things in mania that aren't a part of their typical moral code or belief system. They also do things sometimes out of character while in depression and accompanying guilt and shame. It takes wanting help and getting it. It takes someone standing by your side and watching your back. If those things don't exist then no, it won't be managed. I'm just asking that people think about it a little differently before they start saying "leave".

I agree completely with getting them out of the house or hospitalizing them...my personal experience and certainly not the norm was I got abused a whole lot more than I ever dished out.

Sorry for the thread derailment.