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We talked again last night, although I ended up getting angry again.

Anyway, I made it very clear that the only reason I filed for divorce is because of the affair. I asked her what are her reasons for agreeing to divorce me? She really couldn't give a straight answer for awhile, except the usual comfortable but boring/unhappy marriage. Then finally she admitted that she still has feelings for the AP. And that her romantic feelings for me are pretty much gone, except that she thinks I'm a good father. I said okay, I can understand that. But the reason I was angry and frustrated these past 3 months was because I knew the affair was still ongoing, but she kept lying about it.

Also she keeps shifting blame to me.

- I didn't make the marriage happy, so she had the affair

- I over-reacted, got angry, blamed her too much, so she doesn't love me anymore, and doesn't think the marriage can be repaired

I made spreadsheets for each of us showing that there is not enough money between us to maintain two households with the same lifestyle. We definitely have to sell our nice house. And downgrade our life style.

I reminded her how unfair this is. She didn't communicate her unhappiness effectively to me prior to the affair. Now I lose her, the marriage is really broken, we each lose half the time with our kids/wont see them every day.

I reminded her that it will not workout with the AP. I will not allow her to raise my children in his presence if they end up together as a couple. And I said how will the children feel, having to see the AP, know that this was why we divorced. The OMW feels the same way. My WW and the AP will always be reminded that they broke up two families with young children. And they both cheated on their spouses.

I said if our friends and family ask, I will tell them the truth. I said I will write her mother a letter explaining what happened. Her response was that I just want people to feel sorry for me. I said no, I want people to know the truth.

I emailed the MC to make and appt to discuss how to tell the children. I will tell the MC, that I want our kids to know why we divorced.

My WW has no desire to R. She is so focused on blaming me and repulsed by my anger/frustration.

I'm pretty much committed to D now. I see no hope. I'm at the point where I am okay with D. I'm trying to look forward to a new life without her. And even being single again for a while.

I will not allow her to raise my children in his presence if they end up together as a couple.

Gently...

It’s not really your call… Once divorced you two might have guidelines to how and when you introduce your children to people you date. But life does go on and IF your WW and OM end up as a couple then in brutal honesty you should hope he turns out to be the best step-dad in town.

But we are getting way ahead of ourselves now.

Coda – keep the anger under a manageable level. I know it’s hard but always think end-goal. Definitely let her know that you will be honest with all stakeholders but don’t use the kids or her mom as a threat. It’s a fact, a statement – not a theat.

Her feelings for you are gone because she is emotionally involved with the AP. Now give it a few months and one of two things can happen.

1] She moves in with the OM and their relationship prospers [rather unlikely]. Then she is truly gone.

2] The affair founders [very likely] and her feelings for the OM gradually fade and she emerges from the fog. Remember this guy is going to be reluctant to raise three children from another man - too much stress; it seldom works out.

At that time she wakes up from this romantic delusion and sees the mistakes she has made. Its likely that she is then open for discussion about reconciliation after the divorce, as long as the relationship between you has not turned poisonous. You can then make whatever decision you feel appropriate.

All you need to do to put yourself in the role of ultimate decision maker is STOP PICKING ARGUMENTS!!. Thats how you poison your relationship. Be nice, courteous, friendly, non-hostile while the divorce creeps nearer and finally arrives. By then the two of you should be getting along quite nicely. Wish her all the best as she rides off into the sunset with OM and wait.

If she wants to reconcile after the likely end of the affair then you get to decide. Yes; or get lost loser girl.

The key is stopping counter-productive hostility which achieves nothing positive and creates a coldness/rejection in your wife. If you want your wife to feel some warmth towards you then everything you are doing is guaranteed to produce the very opposite.

To summarize; be nice and let the marriage end with good feelings on both sides. Then is she wishes to reconcile in the future you get to call the shots.

I realize legally, I probably can't prevent my wife from living with the AP and my kids being around. But morally, I hope she understands.

Anger, it's my downfall. Sometimes I wonder, if I would have been able to keep my cool since finding out out about the affair, would things be different? Would my wife still want to divorce me?

I regret not being able to control it. I am usually very easygoing. But this has got to be the worst time in my life. And to have your spouse be the one to cause the pain, and not have any empathy, and blame it on you, it's almost impossible not to feel anger. The MC said anger is a surface emotion for hurt.

[This message edited by coda87 at 5:29 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)]

I plan to be nice and not be nasty during the divorce. We actually talked about some of the details regarding the kids,money, and assets.

For some reason, I feel relief that my WW admitted that she still is attached to the AP. I think the fact that she tried to keep it hidden from me (even though I knew it was still ongoing) was worst than her just telling me the truth. I'm still very sad about it. But strangely relieved

Its not that your wife has zero feelings for you, its that they are masked by her intense romantic infatuation for the OM. Its likely she will end up in an apartment as a mistress with occasional sex visits by him, until she gets disillusioned by the situation and the affair peters out.

What a tragic waste of a marriage, all for a silly fantasy. I can understand your relief at finding out about your WW's continued feelings for OM; just detach and refuse to discuss your true feelings and opinions. You really have done your best; divorce does seem inevitable.

Yep, tragic because it didn't have to be this way. I told her I would have done anything for her if she would have just asked. And that it's not fair that I lose her, our marriage, and I won't be able to see my kids everyday like I do now, for something that she decided to do , have the affair. It really is a waste. But hey, for some reason I feel way better. I know the truth. I see my way out of this hell, although I prefered that me and my WW would leave it together. But I know I'll be alright. I made mistakes (letting my anger out too much). But I put in my best effort, not knowing anything about how to handle an affair when I first found out. Thank you all for your advice and support. I will keep posting updates so you all see how this ends. Aloha!

OK Now is right on the money.

Coda – anger is OK. Anger shows passion. It shows you care. So don’t feel bad about showing anger. Just don’t let anger CONTROL you. Big difference.

Interesting update. Even though my WW says she still has feelings with OM, she keeps denying that she has contact with him. Every Friday she goes out. I suspect to meet the OM. So last night I pack my bags and say I'm gonna stay with a friend a couple of days. The first thing outta her mouth is how that's going to mess up her dinner plans with her client. I say to just reschedule. She is almost in a panic saying I have to come home Friday to watch the kids. I refuse and tell her I know she is going to see OM. More denials from her. Finally she says she will hire a babysitter. I say you are not going out with OM and leave your kids with me or anyone else. 90% of me is certain she is lying but 10% wants to believe her. So I say never mind I'll stay home.

But this morning I put my sons iPhone in her car. And use it to track her location. About 300 she parks at a hotel, the same one they met at before. I call that hotel and ask to be connected to the OMs room. And they put me though but no one answer. I call the OMs wife and she says let's confront them. So I pick her up and we drive to the parking garage and find OM and my WWs cars. We go to the hotel front desk.but they won't give us the room number. So we both call our respective WH And WW and tell them to meet us in the lobby to talk. They come down! OM hardly says anything and his body language is very defensive. I ask my wife why she needed to lie. We are getting divorced anyway so no need to keep a secret. I tell her that lying is why I'm angry. She gives more lame excuses. I ask them what they want to do. She says to be with him. Before we left I told OM what kind of guy tries to take another mans wife especially one with three young kids? And what man leaves his own wife and two kids. He just kept saying I dont know. In tell my WW what kind of bad person has she become. Then we left them. So I confirmed my suspicions. I know what I must do now, bail from this woman asap.

Coda87,

She is so selfish and completely blinded by lust...it amazes me that she can do that to her children.

Just a couple of things I want to chime in on.

1 I feel for you brother and I’m so sorry this is happening to you and your family.

2 Liston to everything Bigger tells you he is genius

Man hugs.

So did the OM have anything to say other than "I don't know?"

Not really, everytime I asked him something. I don't know was his response. He just stood there arms crossed with a smug look on his face. My wife is angry. She is being passive aggressive.

So Coda, now you know. The picture is clearer.

As you might know by now I like similes and analogies.

Remember the one about you having to set off on a train journey? Well – right now the train set off from the platform. You are on board but your wife is still standing on the platform holding that offered second ticket watching as the train pulls away. So just MAYBE there might be a chance for her to catch a later express train and catch up at the next station but that’s not really relevant. What is relevant is that YOU have set off and YOU are going to reach your destination.

Remember the one about the burning house? Well – you have just discovered that the house has major structural damage and that worrying about water damage from the hoses isn’t really an issue. That trying to convince you that leaving those embers glowing in the living room might be OK isn’t really a good idea. That calling the fire brigade wasn’t really overreacting to the situation. That at the end of the day managing to save yourself and your children out of the burning house might be an acceptable conclusion.

Look – My view has ALWAYS been to deal with infidelity with reality. The facts are what they are. There is really no way to avoid that. So if a spouse has an affair it really all boils down to two major issues: What do we want and what does the WS want? If we want D then fine – that’s it. If we want to remain married then it breaks down to what we can accept.

There are numerous people that deal with infidelity by turning a blind eye. Women that know their husbands go to escorts (nicer word for a whore…) or husbands that know their wife has a lover. This can be an open “secret” or simply ignored. If you had been happy with that arrangement then I guess you two would be “married” two years from now. But would you be happy? Could you live with that thought? Heck – chances are affair with THIS OM would be over by then. But stats also say that the chances are immensely high he would simply be replaced.

So think this through Coda; HAD you not demanded action. HAD you not filed. HAD you not decided to get out of infidelity… Could you have been able to turn a blind eye to your wife’s affair? Could you have waited at home on Friday evenings KNOWING she was with OM?

Have a strong feeling your answer will be no.

And if that’s the case… well… then we know what you can accept.

So back to the statement of dealing with infidelity with reality:

We know what you want – to reconcile. We know what you can accept – a wife that is not in an affair. You are not being offered the later so the former becomes irrelevant. You aren’t willing to have a wife that cheats and she’s not willing to be faithful.

That’s just your reality. That’s just the burning house no matter how much you wish it wasn’t burning.

So Coda – press on with the divorce. Get advice ASAP on how to tell the kids. Expose to others as to that you are divorcing and why. Start working actively at clarifying issues relevant to the divorce and the termination of your marriage. Start taking realistic, decisive action.

And you don’t do so in anger. You don’t lecture her about how her actions will cause this or that. It’s more of a “well – since we are not going to remain married it’s only logical we sell the house. After all – I can’t afford it alone. Can you?” rather than a “We have to sell the house because you screw around”. Might be the same cause but a different message though.

Right now IMHO the ABSOLUTE worst outcome from the reality as it is now is that you replace the relationship you had with WW (marriage) with another major relationship with her. We see it all the time here on SI where the divorce becomes the new marriage. Divorce is NOT about an alternative relationship per se. It’s not about how to live with WW in in-house separation indeterminately, it’s not about how her actions control your actions. It’s NOT about seeing each and every one of her actions as evil. Divorce is the process of MINIMIZING interaction between two people. Since you have kids it’s the process of becoming the best co-parents you can but other than that… you don’t want any form of relationship. Like you yourself told your wife; there isn’t any need to lie because you are getting a divorce. So you no longer argue about whose fault this or lecture her on how her actions are causing this – you simply focus on the practical things that need to be done.

Just keep that in mind because you will get a lot of posts now about what a b@tch she is, how stupid and what she’s sacrificing. They are all well intended, possibly all true and might offer you some moral support but still… it’s all irrelevant. Right now your WW is wrecking her marriage and that’s the simple fact. Hopefully sooner than later she at least manages to salvage her role as your children’s mother.

Today, my WW is in a better mood. She seems to have calmed down. Even apologized for lying to me. I said let just try to get through the divorce process and quickly and smoothly as possible. We have and appointment with MC on 12/2 to get advice on how to break the news to the kids. I'm going to look at several open houses today for places that I might want to live after the divorce.

I feel very depressed though. I really do not want this. I feel like eventually the A with die a natural death, like I've heard most affairs do. Should I wait and see? Should I ask my WW again to give our marriage another chance? I feel desperate enough to ask. But I know I probably should not. I will try not to.

Seems so hopeless, but is there anything left I can do to try and salvage our marriage? Or do I just keep moving forward with the D and see what happens. Has anyone been this far down the road to D, but still able to R?

Hi Coda87

I have been reading your posts for the last couple of weeks. I am sorry you are in this place.

What I believe you are feeling right now is morning the death of your marriage. This is a normal response.

But just remember, for a marriage to live and breath, it takes 2 people to work at it. The actions of your WS shows that she does not want to put in the work to make. So ask yourself what is the reality.

Sorry you are here brother. To directly answer

I feel like eventually the A with die a natural death, like I've heard most affairs do. Should I wait and see? Should I ask my WW again to give our marriage another chance?

I defer to Bigger.

This can be an open “secret” or simply ignored. If you had been happy with that arrangement then I guess you two would be “married” two years from now. But would you be happy? Could you live with that thought? Heck – chances are affair with THIS OM would be over by then. But stats also say that the chances are immensely high he would simply be replaced.

If I may ask a blunt question in response to

Seems so hopeless, but is there anything left I can do to try and salvage our marriage?

Why? You've seen the mask removed. She is totally unwilling to put you or the marriage first. What redeeming qualities does she posses that so attract you?

coda,

My apologies but I'm going to be blunt.

You busted her at a hotel with the OM...post-dday...and she was angry about it. She wasn't embarrassed. She didn't say she was sorry. Her gut reaction was to be angry with you for confronting her and interrupting her tryst with OM.

Why would you want to continue in an M with someone who treats you this way? To put it another way if this scenario happened to one your kids in their M what would you want them to do?

Your ww doesn't deserve the consideration of another chance based on her continued betrayal and utter lack of remorse. She hasn't even earned the thought of staying with her imho. That's not to say you can't work with her and co-parent and act in a cordial, civil manner. You can do that, but she has a lot of work to do if she were to expect you to continue to be with her as a husband. At this point she doesn't show signs of wanting that, which I'm sorry to see for the pain it's causing your family.

Please focus on yourself and work on detaching. Protect yourself legally too. Please.

Coda

Glad you confronted them. How immature and sad that they put each other over their own spouses and children.

Why on earth would you wait on such a selfish woman.

Give her what she wants. The divorce.

Give her all the rope she needs to hang herself while acting like a fool.

Focus on you and your children. You really need to be their rock because your STBXW has lost her mind.

Show her consequences or she will never learn any lessons from this debacle of her own creation.

Stay strong.

HM

Your WW is 'in love', infatuated with the OM. He is her KISS, her hero etc. and its no use expecting her to behave rationally until disillusionment sets in. That will happen eventually when the depth of her 'crime' becomes apparent to her.

By divorcing her you regain respect in her eyes and well as bolstering your own self-esteem. You send a message they you won't allow her to walk over you anymore and you expose her failings as a wife. If you backtrack now you won't get your wife back; she will agree to delay the divorce and then blatantly carry on the affair. You will have taken a few steps backward.

I repeat; you can't attempt reconciliation with your wife as long as she is deeply emotionally involved with this piece of slime who has broken up 2 marriages and has no conscience about what he has done. They are both living a fantasy and when they face the reality of bringing up 5 very confused children, who have been stripped of security and protection, then their 'love' will be exposed for what it is; a trivial exercise in irresponsible lust.

Stay the course and continue to behave decently in front of friends and family. Just wait for their affair to disintegrate as your wife finally realizes what a dishonorable thing she has done. Not a romantic ideal of a glorious love that cannot be denied, but a squalid tale of betrayal of both husband and family.

I had dinner with a good friend last night who also went through a divorce with his wife after a similar situation to mine. What he said really made sense to me. He also has known my WW even a little longer than I have known her. He basically said to let her go. She's not my wife anymore, not even a friend. Therefore I have no responsibility as her husband. He said he made some of the same mistakes I've made. And that I need to start having a backbone and have more self respect.

When I got home I mentally decided to let my WW go. I cried/sobbed and let it all out. Then I wrote my WW letter. I said it would be best if she moves out of the house, live with the AP if she wants to, and have her AP pay for the rent.

I said I'm not her husband anymore, she is now the AP's girlfriend, so she should let him take care of her. If she refuses to move out (I can't force her to legally), then I said we will live like roomates until the divorce is finalized. We alternate days taking the kids to/from school, dining, bathing, helping with the homework,etc.

And she needs to pay 50% of the housing expenses.

I said I will not pay for everything, take care of the kids all the time while she is out running around with the AP, its not fair and I won't be used like that.

I also said my love for her has finally run out. And that from now on I'm going to look out for myself and for my own future.

I emailed my attorney to continue to push to continue the divorce process.

I feel better today.