SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/DS00652

Holy crap ... this is HIM.

Entirely.

How did I miss this before?!?

The whole nine yards.

The lack of empathy, the (unhealthy) need for ego strokes, the self-destruction.

I can't help him. How slim are the chances he can truly help himself?

Would love to hear other's experiences ...

Head down to the NPD thread in I Can Relate. There are lots of experienced people there who understand and can help you.

And here I thought it was the Narcissist lightbulb joke...

How many narcissists does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Just one. He holds the light bulb up and waits for the world to revolve around him.

[This message edited by caregiver9000 at 7:02 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)]

@ caregiver!! It's funny because it's true!

Because:

When to see a doctor

When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may not want to think that anything could be wrong — doing so wouldn't fit with your self-image of power and perfection. But by definition, a narcissistic personality disorder causes problems in many areas of your life, such as relationships, work, school or your financial affairs. You may be generally unhappy and confused by a mix of seemingly contradictory emotions. Others may not enjoy being around you, and you may find your relationships unfulfilling.

And this

Causes

By Mayo Clinic staff

It's not known what causes narcissistic personality disorder. As with other mental disorders, the cause is likely complex. The cause may be linked to a dysfunctional childhood, such as excessive pampering, extremely high expectations, abuse or neglect. It's also possible that genetics or psychobiology — the connection between the brain and behavior and thinking — plays a role in the development of narcissistic personality disorder.

Yes go to the forum, it helped me as npds are a whole other class of jerks who cheat.

[This message edited by wontdefineme at 7:06 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)]

Yep, that sounds exactly like The Princess. Sadly, I was only too happy to help with this part: "Expecting constant praise and admiration".

She didn't need to expect it because my sorry ass was only too willing to provide it - and probably would have continued to if I hadn't discovered what a liar and cheater she is.

Love the joke! Must remember that one....

My XWH is this exactly too. Cheaters are all basically corrupt, IMO, but the remorseless NPD type like mine are a whole other class that can barely be called human. How they function when they literally have NO self, and NO soul... is just beyond me. Part of me still hates him and part of me feels pity for him, since I know he's probably never going to be truly happy, and is going to spend the rest of his miserable life wondering WHY he can't be happy and having no clue how utterly fucked up he is. Mostly I feel bad for his family, especially his five kids. I'm free of him and his destructive ways, they are not and never will be. It's sad.

When I realized this was my XWH's issue, I checked out the NPD thread, and honestly I just felt kind of lost in there. Everyone there seemed to know each other already and there were lots of inside joke type postings. If anyone from that thread could advise me on trying to get involved, that would be great.

In the meantime, I found an awesome book called "Narcissistic Lovers: How to Cope, Recover and Move On" by Cynthia Zayn and Kevin Dibble. I got it from Amazon and it's been really helpful. You might check it out.

[This message edited by gypsybird87 at 8:31 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)]

I've just been sitting back, waiting for you to make the connection. I figured you'd get there sooner rather than later once he started hammering on you about the dogs.

Website for you: Out of the Fog

Book for you: One Mom's Battle (great FB page, too)

You don't know what hell is until you try leaving someone with NPD or strong NPD tendencies. Be thankful you don't have children.

Never EVER mention the word narcissist or NPD to anyone. Not your lawyer, not your boss or pastor or counselor. You should describe your STBX's behavior, but you must let them draw their own conclusion about what's wrong with him.

The sooner you get away from him, the better.

How slim are the chances he can truly help himself?

The chances are pretty much non existent. My counselor told me even he would need inpatient, intensive therapy. And even then, it probably would not help. The only thing you can do is get him out of your life so he can stop slowly draining your soul.

And here I thought it was the Narcissist lightbulb joke...

How many narcissists does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Just one. He holds the light bulb up and waits for the world to revolve around him.

And when this doesn't work, he blames his ex wife!

And when this doesn't work, he blames his ex wife!

And it's her fault the bulb burned out, too.

*sigh* Gotta' laugh to keep from crying, sometimes.

He invented the light bulb, ya know?

Ah, we could go on all night!

Anyhow, two other book recommendations:

Splitting: How to Protect Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder

The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists

Erz,

As you know, I deal with a diagnosed narcissist (and for the record, the joke about the lightbulb is in the quote thread).

It is absolutely soul-sucking. They are relentless in their quest for validation (ego-kibbles, someone once called it). They use and manipulate and use again and see nothing wrong with it. The things that they do make those of us who are normally wired cringe give them nary a twinge.

Www.outofthefog.net is another good resource.

This is a rough ride--not only do you get the cheating, but you get the lack of remorse and having the person ou once considered a loving spouse become an enemy you cannot recognize.

Cat

The thing that makes all the jokes about the N's funny to me is that they are "true." Instead of being sad and horrified all the time, laughing at the N is my way of taking the power out of the fear. It is like turning on the light bulb and refusing to be afraid of the dark.

There are a lot of jokes about N's. The ones that come closest to the behavior I see are the ones I remember.

Here are a couple more:

What's a narcissist's idea of hard work?

Arranging for lots of people to do all the chores.

Why does a N think it is okay to break a promise?

It belongs to him. He can break it if he wants to.

I can't help him. How slim are the chances he can truly help himself?

What is it that Dr. Phil says? "You can't fix what you don't acknowledge?"

How many narcisstic people are going to acknowledge that trait in themselves? My guess would be close to zero.

Focus on yourself and YOUR happiness. He doesn't matter anymore.

How many narcisstic people are going to acknowledge that trait in themselves? My guess would be close to zero.

BINGO!

I think most of us who have read my many descriptions of my STBX would agree that he's fairly high up there on the N scale. And yet when asked in counseling and in conversation and in the parenting eval if he thought he should seek help or get IC, he always answered no. Nope. Doesn't need it. Doesn't want it. There's nothing wrong. There is no problem. Everyone else has a problem, not him.

I have so many light bulbs going off right now, I need dark sunglasses.

So many things make so much sense - things that utterly befuddled me thus far. His sense of entitlement. His inability to acknowledge my emotions (except when I remind him that I have them - then he just gets dramatic). His self-destructive choices. His intimacy-aversion or avoidance. His self-effacing need for admiration - even from unadmirable sources. His reinvention of our history. His broken ego. His sabotage of stability. And on, and on ....

SO many things make crystal-clear sense to me now.

I never would have been enough; he is driven by a broken, self-destructive ego that craves unhealthy validation at all costs.

All in all ... it makes me sad for him. He robbed himself of an amazing, blissful life.

At least now, though, I am starting to understand why ...

Cheaters are all basically corrupt, IMO, but the remorseless NPD type like mine are a whole other class that can barely be called human.

This! When I started reading about NPD (particularly the info about the covert kind) it was like reading something specifically about my ex. It was freaky as hell but they tend to have very rigid and similar responses to things. They are missing huge chunks of what makes up the human experience like empathy and introspection.

They have one focus and ONE focus only and that is to maintain the image of themselves they created in their mind. Everything they do is to support that false self they created and it warps them into twisted creatures that suck the life out of everyone misfortunate enough to be their primary supply. When reality and that image grows further and further apart they get nastier and more delusional to keep that truth from themselves. Learning all that made it easier to see that a life with him would never be fulfilling whether he one day acts remorseful and like the guy I *thought* he was or if "Mr. Good Guy" never shows up again.

It's so hard to understand how a person can live the way they do. But trying to understand helped me SO much in detaching from my ex. It helped me to understand that my feelings don't matter to him, never have and never will because he doesn't see me as a person, just a useful (but malfunctioning) extension of himself. For him, logic is only applicable to him if it supports the views he already has. I can't live with an irrational POS like that and my kids deserve better than to be at the mercy of his whims. They have lost so much this year like the family unit they knew for their entire existence to the house that was supposed to be their home for a very long time. They lost friends, security, cried many tears and are still dealing with shit no one their age should have to deal with. He doesn't give a shit. Their feelings, like mine, are not on his radar.

Reality to a narc is whatever supports their warped view of themselves. Anything that contradicts that is ignored or invalidated by any means necessary.

I couldn't understand how my husband of 10 years turned into an unrecognizable beast overnight. I had people suggest to me it was a brain tumor, a psychotic break, extreme reactions to guilt etc. Until I began reading about NPD I held on to the hope that as quickly as this evil thing appeared, it could turn back into the man I thought I married. But now I know that this thing is the man I married. This is really him underneath the mask he wears. Underneath the mask of a very needy "good guy" is this hideous thing with no empathy. I still struggle with it all and I'm sure I will for a long time. I get that he hates himself and I understand why he hides himself (the asshole underneath is not praiseworthy in the slightest) but I still struggle with understanding why he won't acknowledge and CHANGE himself. I think that is the most perplexing thing to me. It takes SOOOO much effort to maintain an image so opposite of what you are so wouldn't it be a million times easier to just BECOME that image to let that act go?

I know I'll never truly understand him because it's all so damn illogical so all I can do is except that he isn't what I want or deserve, detach and remove him from my life as much as I can considering we have children together. I don't regret my children but I regret choosing him to father them. I wish I could cut him out of my life entirely and never see or hear from him again.

[This message edited by Housefulloflove at 11:11 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)]