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7yrsflushed - It was my suggestion.

We've never spoken about it the other way around because it's simply not something I could do. Sex is generally difficult and/or painful for me. It has been since the very first time... it's been a problem in every relationship. It's only in the last few years that we've really begun to understand medically why I have had these problems since my teens. I can only imagine what it must be like for my husband when we do have sex and he sees me trying to mask my discomfort. One of the reasons why we have sex much less than earlier in our relationship is because I put my foot down and said: "I am not doing this any more when I don't feel up to it. If it hurts, I'm stopping, whether you're done or not. I'm not going to continue to approach sex like I'm going into battle." Once I put myself first in that aspect, we really started having problems.

If I approach him on my own, I generally don't have as much pain because I'm in the right mindset and physical state. I just don't want it that much... I never have in any relationship. That's just me.

his response should have been immediate and visceral, "No fucking way and how dare you even suggest that".

Ditto.

Mary, I am so sorry you are having to face this in addition to dealing with your illness. ((((Mary))))

Has no one of the 3 of you, (you, your H, and the MC) considered the fact that even though you are ill, that surely you too, have sexual needs? That your H could meet in such a way as to not cause you too much physical exertion, and that if he were not so caught up in his own 'needs' that there might be a way for the two of you to meet each others needs without going outside the marriage?

Has no one suggested working with a sex therapist on finding ways for the two of you to meet each others needs?

Personally, I feel your H is incredibly selfish. Many men would be more than happy to have sex once every week or two. Heck, there are many stories right here on SI of quite a few men that would be overjoyed to have sex once a week with their wives.

Not to be flip, but maybe your H needs a date with Rosy Palm, and her 5 sisters. Seems a lot safer and less complicated than a one-sided 'open marriage'.

And just who exactly was the one that originally came up with this idea?

We have spent thousands of $$ on a sex therapist. Saw her for a two years. Helped him deal with his anger over my health issues and accept that he'd never be able to be with me with wild abandon. No therapist's suggestions, however, no matter how skilled, can overcome a body that just doesn't want to play fair.

Thinking back, the subject may have first come up in her office when we were brainstorming options. We didn't pursue discussing it at that time but I don't remember why. That was before I really started to have significant pain and prior to the leukemia diagnosis and all the crap that brought. We thought we had it bad then... would that I could rewind the clock and appreciate that time more!

My sexual needs are perfectly well met. I have more than I want. He is more than happy to accommodate me in any way I wish and drives me crazy asking if he can do something for me. He has a hard time understanding what it's like to not need sex or an orgasm. Really, to his credit, he does try very hard to be gentle but avoiding my painful areas and scars is like navigating between between Scylla and Charybdis. Even I don't always know when something will hurt... so we try our best to avoid but aren't always successful. He gets terribly upset (more than me, honestly) when we hit a painful spot, and sometimes becomes very despondent after. He is very emotional in general.

The Rosy Palm is more than well used: 2-4 times a day from what he tells me. He gets to the point where he's done it so much it hurts, then he's frustrated he has to take a break. This has been discussed with his doctor, the MC and his IC, their take is he's on the high end of normal. Yes, we have had the open and honest and extremely emotional conversations with MC and both our ICs about the sex addict subject. Group consensus is that is not his problem.

And like I said earlier, when we really discussed this arrangement in earnest with the current MC, it was at my suggestion.

I have never really been able to figure out where this somewhat desperate-sounding insatiability comes from, and neither have the counselors (at least not the ones with whom I worked - I don't know what any of the 3 or 4 he's seen have truly said to him).

[This message edited by MaryContrary at 5:48 PM, September 20th (Friday)]

The Rosy Palm is more than well used: 2-4 times a day from what he tells me. He gets to the point where he's done it so much it hurts, then he's frustrated he has to take a break.

Good Gawd! Well, I'm not a man, and I'm certainly not a doctor, but IMO, that is way, way, WAY abnormal.

Yes, we have had the open and honest and extremely emotional conversations with MC and both our ICs about the sex addict subject. Group consensus is that is not his problem.

You're kidding, right? Has he seen anyone that is an expert in sex addiction?

Honestly, I don't see this as even having anything much to do with you, or your illness, but with HIM. Was he sexually abused as a child?

he is masterbating 2-4 times a DAY??

That is NOT normal..at all. Unless he's a 15 year old boy..and clearly he is not.

Not all therapists are the same. I agree with PPGA..he needs to be seen by an expert who deals with sex addiction.

I deal with chronic pain. It has affected our sex life. It has affected our sex life since dday. WH has been nothing but kind and patient. If I were to suggest he go elsewhere to get his sexual needs met, it would hurt his feelings..I asked him. He said," There is no one else in this world that I want to touch other than you. Sex is about more than a physical release..it's about love. I love YOU. I would never disrespect you..or our marriage..or our family..or myself in that way again. You are my wife..in sickness and in health. I have no need for anyone else."

^^And that should be any husband's response when dealing with a wife who has health issues.

I have never heard of a "well spouse affair" until you posted about it.

And..honestly? I think it's an excuse to cheat. It minimizes the betrayal by saying "my spouse is sick so I have to have sex with other people." It puts the blame on the sick spouse. I realize that is not what you are doing..but that is what will happen. Affairs are messy. Feelings get involved. He will come home from having sex and you will know what he has been doing. It will cause you pain. And when it does..will he be patient and understanding..and willing to stop? Or will he blame you..it's your fault..your idea..you suggested it..etc?

I see you are trying to be practical. But you are human..you have feelings..as do these women he is going to have sex with. Will she be ok with being used for sex? What if she falls for him..and he falls for her?

It's a dangerous thing to do,IMO.

ETA: Has he been unfaithful to you in any way during your marriage? Any ONS? An EA? Poor boundaries?

[This message edited by confused615 at 8:41 AM, September 21st (Saturday)]

Non-judgmentally, I would characterize the arrangement as his seeing a sex surrogate for physical therapy - - not infidelity.

In some enlightened countries, health insurance might pay for it.

Ok, I'm going to disagree here. Masturbating 2-4 times a day is not, in an of itself, any problem at all. I have done it and I'm not a guy nor am I a sex addict. Only problem can be irritation and for women possible bladder infection if not careful with hand washing and lotion use.

Masturbating because of a compulsion is one thing. Because you enjoy it another.

Only thing you need to look at is if it's interfering in your life or sexual intimacy with your partner. I mean, if you have to call in sick at work, yeah, prolly an issue. If you prefer it over intimacy with your partner, absolutely.

Problem is, reading your following posts, you've put him on a diet because of your appetite. Not cool. Actually, the exact same behavior he is now being accused of.

Your further information changes my initial post. I agree with your solution. Since you don't enjoy sex his sex life shouldn't be cut off as well. That, by the way, is if you choose to stay married. I honestly don't see how this situation is cool for either of you.

You said he is only interested in intercourse which leaves you little options. Have you discussed your getting involved with another who could offer you more foreplay and tenderness?

Has he considered retaking the vows in front of friends and family stating he will forsake you in sickness?

Also with masturbating to the point of pain, he has a problem. What happens when he gets a woman somewhere who changes her mind but he doesn't change his? Is there a crime accessory to rape?

Well this...

What happens when he gets a woman somewhere who changes her mind but he doesn't change his? Is there a crime accessory to rape?

Escalated quickly?

Since you don't enjoy sex his sex life shouldn't be cut off as well.

Agree except in the context of the fact MaryContrary has never really had a high sex drive and I got the distinct impression her husband knew how she felt before they got married.

Sex is generally difficult and/or painful for me. It has been since the very first time... it's been a problem in every relationship.

If it was me I would be honest and forthright about how you do it. However try and do it in a non-confrontational way. Almost... I don't know... romantically? Maybe hire a nice suite in a hotel and have dinner together. "Honey, I love you so much, I have to come to realise that I don't want to put our relationship in jeopardy by going through with this agreement" sex is something we should only share with eachother etc etc

I think it's going to be really important on how you approach this one. He's not in the wrong. If it was me personally I would only go with prostitutes and have it as a kinky thing you do together. Like you pick the one out for him...

The whole thing is not my cup of tea but I think you don't know how you would react unless you're in someone else's shoes. So no judgment here.

[This message edited by lauren123 at 9:36 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)]

What was your sex life like while you were dating?

his response should have been immediate and visceral, "No fucking way and how dare you even suggest that".

Omgosh, I was just about to post exactly this (minus the f word lol).

This IS what he should have said.

And furthermore, I think a good partner would be actively engaged in finding things the two of you can do sexually that won't cause you pain rather than just whining about the thing you can't do.

He should be trying to make you feel good about yourself in spite of your difficulties rather than making you feel inadequate.

I think you'd better talk to him fast before this gets out of hand. Do not be worried about how you found out. According to the "agreement" he should have already told you anyway.

Agree except in the context of the fact MaryContrary has never really had a high sex drive and I got the distinct impression her husband knew how she felt before they got married.

I agree with you about this Lauren. Also, it seems sex has always been painful for Mary. Who would have a sex drive when it involves physical pain? (except, of course, those who do enjoy physical pain whilst having sex)

Then there is the fact that they do have intercourse 2-4 times a month. Will you two still have intercourse or any sexual relationship? How often is he going to be seeing this "other" person? Once a month? Once a week? Everyday? Sounds like your husband would want it everyday. Not likely if he has to fly to see her. Expensive if you are paying pro's.

Also with masturbating to the point of pain, he has a problem.

It sounds like you have been to many therapists. I believe you even saw a sex therapist. I find it hard to believe that they would think there isn't a "problem" when someone masturbates to the point of pain. Have you checked these people's credentials?

It also seems that Mary's husband is hyper focused on intercourse. Mary has said she is open to other sex acts. I also didn't get that Mary doesn't not enjoy sex (but not intercourse so much 'cause it is extremely painful), but has very little need for it and is content with what she has. Two different things. How I read it, anyway.

If this is the path you are going to go down, Mary, I would stop this facebook friendship right now. There can't be any secrets in this kind of arrangement. You have got to be in on the whole thing. A threesome of sorts. Every conversation you must know and be part of. No, not for the actual sex act, unless you want to be. This person is going to be a "surrogate" for YOU! You should be in on every step of this journey. There can be no emotions involved with this surrogate. The FB friend has already crossed that boundary.

If it was me personally I would only go with prostitutes and have it as a kinky thing you do together. Like you pick the one out for him...

This. Or, your sex therapist should know of a sex surrogate. That would be the route to go if you really decide to go down this path.

Sadly, I see nothing but pain for you, Mary. This whole situation sounds like someone is going to get hurt, and the bets would be on you!

The whole thing is not my cup of tea but I think you don't know how you would react unless you're in someone else's shoes. So no judgment here.

I feel the same as Lauren, Mary. I will add, once again, I feel you love your husband very, very much and you are/were considering this out of a deep love for your husband and I admire you and that love. ((((MaryContrary))))

Nope.. This would not work for me.. He is shared by no one.. He had problems with ED due to an illness and I was sexless for years.. Believe me I was the one running hot but he is my H for better or worse and in sickness and in health .. Unfortunately he cheated but he's still mine and I won't share..

Sorry but you need a new MC.

it's been a problem in every relationship.

One of the reasons why we have sex much less than earlier in our relationship is because I put my foot down and said: "I am not doing this any more when I don't feel up to it. If it hurts, I'm stopping, whether you're done or not. I'm not going to continue to approach sex like I'm going into battle." Once I put myself first in that aspect, we really started having problems.

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing where he has the problem. He's not looking for excuses to cheat as this wasn't suggested by him. He tried being patient, loving and gentle.

I'm sure she knew he had a high sex drive when dating as well.

If this is a solution that works for you both that's what matters. I agree with the other posters. Wouldn't work for me and apparently you are having second thoughts as well.

As far as who would want sex if in pain? There are quite a few. In fact it actually can make some feel better. There are those of us with chronic health conditions that experience sometimes excrutiating pain to where even the slightest move is painful. Not been a problem.

Since he's been to many therapists, have you as well? An infidelity site that has a majority of members as women cheated on by men may not give the most balanced feedback on something like this. You've both discussed it openly and agreed. Not sure how it's infidelity at all.

In fact it actually can make some feel better.

Evidently it doesn't make Mary feel better.

I'm sure she knew he had a high sex drive when dating as well.

They were both naive and probably thought "love will conquer all". Wrong!

He's not looking for excuses to cheat as this wasn't suggested by him.

Right, but he is already breaking the agreement rules. Keeping secrets.

practiced honesty with me about it

Part of the agreement. Secrets = the biggest aspect of most infidelity.

Evidently it doesn't make Mary feel better.

Right. So if he's going to therapists maybe she can get some help there as well. Sex is a very mental thing as well and that can manifest itself in physical pain. Why is the burden on him when she is the one with the problem.

The first post was an agreement for him to pursue outside interests as long as he kept his priority and focus on her. He left his Facebook open and he hasn't changed how he is with her.

Was the honesty portion a blow by blow or a if something actually comes up to let you know? I'd think anything like this would be extremely dicey. You both also agreed to stop if one was uncomfortable. Have you told him you're uncomfortable or did you come directly here?

Since all this has been open and he's been examined by a team with his entire sexuality under a microscope why not go directly to him at talk to him about this? Why open it up to strangers that any form of sex outside the marriage is a...hot button...to say the least.

We have gone through years of counseling both together and independently, and it has helped, but what it can't fix are my unchanging physical limitations.

We have spent thousands of $$ on a sex therapist. Saw her for a two years. Helped him deal with his anger over my health issues and accept that he'd never be able to be with me with wild abandon. No therapist's suggestions, however, no matter how skilled, can overcome a body that just doesn't want to play fair.

It sounds to me that Mary has been very proactive in trying to overcome her sexual limits.

You know, some men really, really want anal sex with their wives. Many wives aren't willing to go there. Or, they will maybe once in awhile. This maybe something this husband really, really craves but the wife isn't willing to go there. Should he be allowed to have a "well-spouse affair" also? I honestly see very little difference in this as Mary and husband are having sex. Just not the kind the husband really desires. Marriage is full of compromises.

eta: "Why open it up to strangers that any form of sex outside the marriage is a...hot button...to say the least."

I feel Mary is very wise to get feedback from people that have had a third party involved in their marriage. To maybe see where the pitfalls may fall in a "well-spouse affair". How it could possibly lead to infidelity.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 1:02 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)]

Sister, read what the OP said to her husband. Not exactly the same as the situation you're postulating. But since we're dealing in hypotheticals, so y'all would be ok with a husband coming home and saying, " I've decided I'm keeping my paycheck and giving you a small allowance, after all, marriage isn't about money, right? For richer and poorer and I don't desire material things so hope you can budget. Love ya honey"?

read what the OP said to her husband.

Can you just tell me what the OP said to her husband?