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Wow I am at a loss for words, so if I am reading this right if we blame the OW/OM we must "Need" to do this. We must blame some devil and alien life forces.

How presumptuous one must be to make such statements?

I think many have stated here quite reasonably with explanations that define how or why they place the blame and none of it was based on need, magic creatures or nefarious beings. And all have stated their inclinations of laying equal or more blame on the WS.

As was stated by another poster if a person was to steal money from you or perhaps some other act towards you that hurts you on some level would you also say it is wrong of us to blame them since it must be the fault of our purse for being open with our wallet sitting on top.

Nobody. Absolutely NOBODY has the right to tell a BS what they can and can't feel, blame whom they wish, or mock any of us in our feelings.

"

The other women made him do it", mentality seems rampant.

There are many people who believe this. I am not one of them. He did it himself. He initiated it. His choice.

She was happy to collude with him to violate our marriage. She had nothing to lose. She was divorced and what turned out to be sex only soon turned into, "what if we were together..." (insert dreamy look in her eyes and...exit H).

So...in my case, the OW was not the cause of our many problems, nor was she going to be a solution (which is why I never got her version of the story...what for? This is between me and H).

Ick! They both did the exact same thing to you.

Actually - they didn't do anything to me per se. They were doing it all for themselves. They were selfish and got caught up in something artificial. I got hurt in the process. My H has owned his behavior. She has not. But that is her issue to deal with.

I am not willing to break our vows and end our M just bc my H broke them. Esp over something that is not real.

Finally, whether you mean to or not, the tone of your note is very condescending to people who are going through or have gone through hell.

but hey to use your words Safeguard...

WHATEVER MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER

[This message edited by LA44 at 9:54 PM, September 27th (Friday)]

Except that your WH really knew you. knew how much you loved, and sacrificed,for your family...(not that he shared THAT with ow!

This is true. In many cases,(like mine), the WH portrays the BW in a bad light to OW to give her a green light that he is wide open to the possibility of cheating.

All of us BWs know that our WHs were not raped by OW.

OW did not hold a gun to their heads & said "OK, unzipper those pants & take out your magic wand, or I will pull the trigger."

However, when the OW knows he is married & goes for it anyway, or even worse, pursues & makes the first move, without caring about another woman or the kids involved, in my opinion she is despicable.

To me, WH & OW are equally to blame, together they conspired to violate me & destroy my family.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 9:58 PM, September 27th (Friday)]

Actually, IMO, they are BOTH the problem. That was have people in this world that behave like that is a problem. Their lack of morals doesn't just affect their relationships with their partners, it affects friendships and the children that they raise. These people (sometimes) raise children that think that lying and scamming are okay. Children that are affected by their narcissistic parent. Friends that are also encouraged to play around by their friend who has no morals. The OW(P) may be less at fault then our own partner who took vows to us, but make no mistake, they ARE the problem. Those types of people are what makes our world such a sad place to live in sometimes.

@Old Cow: Thank you. That's just what I feel. Yes, of course the OP shares blame. But just as you said, She is not your problem...Your WH is. I would not expect you to feel anything charitable towards OW, but the blame is lopsided here at SI. (regardless of what some say).

Not all situations are the same, I realize, and some have more reason than others to hate the OW. ( In my case, my niece, whom I practically raised!)

I can't believe people are thinking I'm an AP, because I am putting blame where it belongs! My God, our WH's lied to US, you think they were truthful with AP?

Yet somehow Ow got elevated to a status that rendered WH's incapable of resistance.

Wow. Holly Isis! You Super Hero. Where have you been?

When you have affection for someone, it's easier to focus anger elsewhere

Yes.

I'm not sick of the OP getting bashed. I'm sick of people that tell BSs how they should feel and where their focus should be. It's one thing if a BS keeps accepting mistreatment from a WS but looks to the OP to stop the behavior. It's completely different when it's a BS trying to process it all, whether in R or D. We all go through stages in dealing with this and vilification of the OP is usually one of those stages.

Point well taken! Thank you for this!! Yes " A Stage', makes perfect sense to me now. I was thinking I must be missing something, things just were not adding up.

@ Lucky: I did not intentionally, Insult anyone. This is interesting though:

Scorn? Tough shit if they get it, just as Mr Lucky got it from OW' s BS

(He really didn't though, BS laid the blame squarely at OW's feet)

Kinda makes ya go:Hmmmm...

[This message edited by Safeguard at 10:09 PM, September 27th (Friday)]

First of all -- applauding LA:

"I am not willing to break our vows and end our M just bc my H broke them. Esp over something that is not real."

I may have that put on a shirt I love it so much.

I honestly haven't noticed excessive OW blaming here. . .and my H has been so keen on accepting 50% responsibility, that he neglected to notice the ways that he actually may have been sucked in by our "friend." (Who "confessed" that she had had a crush on him for years to help kick off the affair. So, one can go too far the other way too, in hesitating to attribute malicious intent.) Did he manipulate her to get what he wanted as well? I am sure he did, and I hope her husband bashes the hell out of him (to her) for it.

I will never know her 'reality,' and God knows my husband is 100% to blame for his behavior. I will never know her heart, and I don't care, becasue she is not worth it anyway. But, do I think a woman who listened to me talk about our relationship (positively) for years, heard our struggles with his job and travel, and some other personal issues he was having, and then used those things to gain access to him emotionally at a low spot in our marriage, had some predatory shit going on? Yes, I do. Was she aware of it? Who knows. But, one thing is for certain, my H is going to be a much smarter man about himself, and boundaries, and what women are capable of, and what he is capable of, and I will never let my marriage get in the spot it was in again.

Editing for all kinds of clarity.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 10:21 PM, September 27th (Friday)]

Safeguard -

Please remember, expressing your opinion is fine, but you cannot tell others how to feel and in the process insult them.

@Jo2love: Heard and understood.

I'll be more careful how I express myself going forward. Thank you. I did not mean to insult anyone.

@Bionicgal: Your whole post just rocked! BRAVO!!

what he wanted as well? I am sure he did, and I hope her husband bashes the hell out of him (to her) for it.

I will never know her 'reality,' and God knows my husband is 100% to blame for his behavior. I will never know her heart, and I don't care, becasue she is not worth it anyway. But, do I think a woman who listened to me talk about our relationship (positively) for years, heard our struggles with his job and travel, and some other personal issues he was having, and then used those things to gain access to him emotionally at a low spot in our marriage, had some predatory shit going on? Yes, I do. Was she aware of it? Who knows. But, one thing is for certain, my H is going to be a much smarter man about himself, and boundaries, and what women are capable of, and what he is capable of, and I will never let my marriage get in the spot it was in again.

There ARE predatory AP's

for sure, but like vultures, they can only prey on the weak...

[This message edited by Safeguard at 10:58 PM, September 27th (Friday)]

I do truly believe that both is at fault. Just because ow seduce u doesn't mean u have to fall for it. A weak heart and mind is not an excuse for infidelity

Safe, you KNOW that not all WS' are *looking* for an affair (as you stated). That is just flat-out not true. That's why the term 'slippery slope' arose. I think this is especially apropos in the case of an EA.....[PA(?) not so much.]

As a general premise....you are 100% right. OW is NOT the problem. The WS is the problem. Period. End of story.

Are there predatory people in this world that only think about themselves and what *they* want with no regard for anyone else? Yep. Stbx met more than a few of *those* people and he was more than happy to give them a few hours of *fun* time in his bed. They made themselves available and he obliged. Of course it didn't *hurt* that he walked around with an *I'm available* sign in flashing neon lights over his head. BUT that IS on him. Does it irritate me to no end that there are women that don't care if a guy is married or not? You bet it does. But I don't hold those women responsible. What they did was TOTALLY uncool...and if I were to ever encounter one of them, they would *meet* my scorn. But my feeling is that those *outsiders* didn't have any type of obligation to me (I don't even know them)....but stbx DID. It was on HIM to resist and reject their predatory advances. He chose not to.

There have been quite a few posts in the last couple of days where the BS seems to be placing all of the 'blame' on the OP and giving the WS a *pass* for being naive or drug dependent or whatever.....that read as if the WS has lost all *free will*. Safe, I *get* that it is frustrating to read that because it really is so far from the truth of the matter. But, hon, you really do have to consider the forum you're posting in and the post count of the person that you're *talking* to. And some BS' just aren't in the mental spot to be able to *accept* that their spouse isn't who they thought they were. They are clinging so tightly to what they *thought* they had (because the new reality is so horrific) that it is easier to put the blame 'somewhere else'.

Wow. Holly Isis! You Super Hero. Where have you been?

And I'm really hoping that you meant this in a sincere, not snarky, way?

While (in my case because she knew me, met me, spent time with me, held my DD4 as a newborn, signed the congratulations card for the birth of DD2 and started the affair a month later, and even spent time with me during the A) the OW is not the cause of my WH's choice, she has knowingly brought pain and devastation to my life and my family's. For that I will never forgive. For that I will want to bash her for many many years. And I will until I am ready not to. And I'm not putting an expiration date on it.

However, if a BS is absolving the WS of any wrong doing and saying that the OW was 100% the only one to have made a horrible horrible choice...then that BS will continue to be hurt. The WS will have not fixed whatever it was that caused them to have poor boundaries.

confused: Would you agree that it's fair to say, that having a weakened immune system makes one more vulnerable to illness? If so, can you imagine that perhaps being in a weakened emotional state, could make someone more susceptible to manipulation? Some AP's ARE Sociopaths, Some WS's are too.

I have said it since day one....or dday, however you want to put it. I have told him this many times over.

I BLAME MY H FOR HIS A WITH OUR NEIGHBOR. I DON'T BLAME THE OW.

My h was 50 years old and well old enough to know what was right from wrong no matter if the whore instigated it or not. HE COULD HAVE SAID NO AND WALKED AWAY.

So I do completely agree with you. I hate the little bitch to this very day for her part, but I don't blame her. The blame is on my h who felt it necessary to destroy our life and marriage as we knew it no matter what the consequence. Even if he thought he would never get caught, he knew the consequences of what would happen if he did.

[This message edited by TICKED OFF at 11:22 PM, September 27th (Friday)]

@Gonna:

I think we cross posted. Yes I was sincere about hollyIsis. I need to remember the stage a person is in. I guess I may be at the "Beyond Jaded" stage.

Thank you for the gentle reminder. I had Heros too once... Hope dies hard, in the heart, I know, but I hate to *see* betrayed people setting themselves up for more. Been there/done that.

[This message edited by Safeguard at 2:32 AM, September 28th (Saturday)]

If so, can you imagine that perhaps being in a weakened emotional state, could make someone more susceptible to manipulation

But as you've emphatically stated; You don't believe a WS can be in this poor weakened state. Or a BS is an idiot for believing an OW/OM could have some sort "blame". After years of being here.... so many WS's are in a terrible emotional state at the start of an affair. It's not always a WS "choosing" to have an affair... but with your expert opinion, and knowing literally nothing about most of us, you, with slightly over 100 posts, have decided how we all must feel - and why our WS's fell into an affair...

@TICKEDOFF:

That's pretty much exactly how I feel. With the exception of the one time that the AP was my niece. (She and I had always been close, and I thought we had a truly trusting bond.)Still blamed WH 100% even then for what that did to "US".

I don't feel any which way about either of them now. I'm a little heavier of heart, and I could've lived without whatever "lessons" that chapter of my life held, but I suppose, I AM a much shrewder judge of character now.

Thanks for weighing in. Sorry about your situation. Sounds like it was an excruciating time for you, like most of us.

@Stillhurting:

As was stated by another poster if a person was to steal money from you or perhaps some other act towards you that hurts you on some level would you also say it is wrong of us to blame them since it must be the fault of our purse for being open with our wallet sitting on top.

If your spouse held out your wallet to a homeless person, and said "here take this. S.H. is such a &%$# she doesn't deserve to have it. Even if the homeless person KNEW it was not WH's to give, I would not blame the homeless person, nor the "purse".

"Safeguard".....yes, I too am a much better judge of character. It's too bad we had to learn it like this though as you said. And it is really to bad that the learning lesson had to be taught to us by someone who we exchanged vows never ever expecting to get a punch us in the face the stomp all over us.

And thanks for your concern "Safeguard"....at least this is one place I know where most people will understand each other.