SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ask him to take a polygraph. You will set it up.

If he squirms or tells you how "unreliable" these tests are then you know there is more. You may also get a partial "parking lot" confession before taking it if he has the balls to go thru with it.

But many BS's on here have asked for it and get a willing WS who wants only to give whatever their BS needs to feel safe.

A truly remorseful WS will help you heal in any way they can.

Denial is often the first place we want to go, as it is a comfortable and familiar place to be.

We've all been where you are. There is no way to get through this other than facing the truth.

And why isn't HE setting up all of the counseling appointments if he's so sorry?

You're doing great DOmomma. It's a GOOD thing that you're educating yourself and doing the research and thinking of both of your babies.

My WH was into internet activities, also. 99% of what I found were things I would never have thought he would be involved in. I learned things about who he was that I never wanted to know. This is where you are. You are seeing parts of your WH you didn't know about now.

The hardest thing is that your WH is choosing to have these things be part of his life. He's choosing this for himself, for you, and for both of you children.

In the shock of discovery, it can be easy to think of it abstractly, to think he couldn't have understood what he was doing. We all start that way. But you really do have to make him accountable. Those web pages didn't open themselves. The computer didn't magically decide to turn on when he was in the room with you guys.

He CHOSE that.

Keep being strong, even if it feels like you aren't sure what that exactly means. Being strong means making WH have to face reality. Being strong means taking care of both your babies and protecting them from further Trickle Truth disasters down the road.

Do it all now. Keep a united front with both your mind and heart and try not to doubt yourself.

You ARE being strong.

I'm positive there is a part of me that wants to just close my eyes and pretend it never happened.

I understand this, it seems easier and almost do-able in the moment.

Problem is, when you open your eyes the mess will be there and you will have lost time and valuable pieces of yourself.

Keep them open...walk straight through the mess. It is difficult, but whatever path you end up on R or D you will be ok and we will support you through it.

Stay strong.

He actually did make the appointment himself first thing yesterday. I never even mentioned therapy, he told me he was going to do it and asked if I'd also do MC. I said I wasn't ready to commit to that and that he should focus on his issues for himself and our daughter. Even though I'm feeling like I want to reconcile I'm trying not to act on it because I'm sure I'm not thinking logically at the moment.

I don't know what's wrong with me, I actually feel bad for HIM. When he was telling me he loved me I wanted to say I don't know if I love you anymore. But I couldn't, for some reason I'm still concerned with his feelings. Even though he clearly didn't think about mine.

I saw when he was searching for a therapist he was googling sex addiction. So I guess he thinks it's that big of a problem. Don't most sex addicts seek physical sex outside their marriages? This makes me wonder what else has been going on. I still haven't asked him all the questions I have.. I haven't really said much to him at all. I do want to make sure he knows he isn't getting off this easy and will at one point be answering all my questions.

Good for you. Let him start on a road to recovery and do some soul searching.

Continue to take care of yourself.

Dear DOmamma,

Please don't let the SA thing throw you for a loop. In this day of laying blame for your actions on someone or something, cheaters try using the label "sexual addict" as an excuse for their behavior.

Yes...there really are people who are SA'S and it's horrible, but there are definite behaviors that define who is/is not an SA and they are diagnosed as such by medical professionals. Just because your WS "googled" SA doesn't mean he is one.

All SA's are serial cheaters; but not all serial cheaters are SA's.

Don't focus on the SA label. Only after he is officially diagnosed as SA should you deal with that.

{{{{hugs}}}}

k9

^Are you saying all sex addicts physically cheat?

I read this- "The personality disordered person who sexually acts out for greed and opportunism does so with a sense of entitlement and privilege, whereas the sex addict does so from an unmet need within himself, often from childhood, in which sex is the vehicle to cover that pain."

The latter seems much more fitting to my WH. But I'm still not very convinced his behavior's would qualify him as a SA. Like you said, we will just have to wait and see what a counselor says. I also think he could fit into the porn addict category, except it seems common for them to not enjoy actual sex anymore or have ED. Which clearly isn't the case here. It almost seems likes some weird combination of the two addictions... or maybe he's just an asshole. Who knows.

Should he be meeting with a certain kind of therapist? I know he called our local university because they have a sliding scale fee, so it would be the most affordable. But now I'm wondering if he needs to see someone qualified to treat his specific issues.

Ugh, so frustrating. I asked my mom if she'd be able to watch our daughter for an hour tonight so we can talk. I didn't want to do it in front of our baby in case I get upset or heated.. even though she can't understand what I'm saying, I'm sure she can pick up on my emotions. My mom said she could, but then proceeds to tell me how I need to stay calm and civil so that things aren't tense for our daughters birthday. This really ticked me off, I've told her repeatedly that her telling me what to do isn't helpful and that a supportive person just listens. It was like she was saying I can't have emotions about all this because that would just be so awkward for HER at the birthday party. Give me a freaking break, where is his responsibility in not ruining the party? I have every right to get mad if I feel the need, and I don't need someone else telling me I need to control myself for an effing party. Especially when I already made it clear that the party would go on as normal no matter what. She then goes on to tell me that I'm being rude and that I have no idea how she is feeling. She always does this, it causes her such terrible anxiety when I have problems in my marriage

DOmomma09 in ways what you're going through sounds similar to my situation. Although I don't think my WS is a SA but a Serial Cheater. (There is a difference, and yes, I do think yours is a SA, which in some ways is preferential to a Serial cheater, because Serials never hit rock bottom, SAs do.)

Anyways, why your situation is similar is because I always found excuses and reasons why I should let WS back in to the house. I would rationalize and sure enough there we were rug sweeping and just trying to look past everything without any one of us getting help. WS would promise the world, would call around to make appointments to IC, MC, whatever. Some days he would even go too, but then once everything died down, he would stop going.

If you let this behaviour continue, he will start to get worse, eventually when you find out, he will start to blame you for his behaviour and tell you you are the one who needs counselling not him, that you drove him to it, that you are to blame. You will start to believe it, and again you will just want the hurt to go away and will take him back. If this cycle continues you will start to hate yourself and he will in essence be getting away with murder. Your murder actually, because with each time this happens, he is slowly killing you on the inside.

Your mom sounds alot like mine, somehow what is going on with me becomes about her. That's why I don't tell my mom my personal stuff. I just can't. It's to frustrating and somehow I have to console her, or argue with her.

Anyways, think long and hard if you want to offer your WS easy access to you. If you offer it once, you will offer it again and again and again. It sounds like you've all ready offered it to him time and time again. Put your foot down now. I promise you PROMISE YOU that he is not God's gift to women and that HE WILL do this to another woman. He will not turn into the man you've always wanted with another woman (I know we worry that this may be the case, and sometimes that plays into our decision making). HE WILL KEEP DOING THIS TO YOU AND TO ANY OW HE COMES INTO CONTACT WITH.

By having a firm hand and standing up for yourself you may have an actual chance at a normal life with or without him. But by letting him come back with no consequence, you will never have a normal life. He will just keep doing this. Trust me.

It was like she was saying I can't have emotions about all this because that would just be so awkward for HER at the birthday party. Give me a freaking break, where is his responsibility in not ruining the party? I have every right to get mad if I feel the need, and I don't need someone else telling me I need to control myself for an effing party.

Exactly! That you recognized she was pulling emotional manipulation is awesome. Remember that when WH also pulls the "My pain is so SO bad!" party, it's the same deal. The reason you still take his feelings into consideration is because you're a healthy person who was/is committed to her marriage. And just like you said, he wasn't.

Don't beat yourself up for being empathetic - just don't allow them to take advantage of it.

Also, agreed with k9 to beware of the addiction dynamic. My WH didn't really start taking strides forward for himself until he understood that even if you match an addictive personality description, you still have to be responsible for your choices. It can be easy to say, "But, I'm an addict!" and think that's all there is to it.

Nope, that's just the first step.

I have a question- how will I know if he's making progress through counseling? Since I'd want to see long term progress before committing to MC, how will I know?

I am sorry for what your dealing with. My the is also SA. I speak with him and his therapist at times every three weeks an other times longer.

My condition of recovery included SA, not just attending but working th program.

IC before MC.

Post nup.

Reading about boundaries.

Working on our communication.

Tell your Mom this isn't about her. Right now you have to focus on you and your daughter's needs. I would tell her if she has something positive to say, have at it. If she just wants to add her two cents, she should hold that thought until you might be more receptive. You don't have to harshly shut her down (not saying you did that), but reinforce your need to make your own decisions, the right to your own feelings, and the right to determine how you will move forward for yourself.

Well we just had our talk. I started by asking him if there was anything else he needed to tell me. He told me about two secret emails (one I knew about from the key logger and was created for the purpose of joining babycenter...the other I was unaware of and he had lied about in the past when I asked him which email he used for the webcam site). He told me about a list of porn he had saved to his favorites list (I'm really surprised I missed this), and that he had been on dating sites "just to look" and didn't pay to join or message anyway.

I was really surprised he came out with all this with very little probing on my part. The dating sites part stung and made me mad, but I didn't want to punish him for telling the truth so I tried to stay calm. I guess the dating sites part is the worst to me because it's not overtly sexual, and closer to emotionally cheating. He stands by his statement of the cheating never extending beyond the internet, and I (possibly naively) believe him.

He says he doesn't quite know why he does it, that he's been doing it since he was a teen and it feels like a compulsion. That he's tried to stop but that since it's just a click away it's a lot harder to resist than physically cheating. He said he honestly wasn't thinking about me when he did it, which I really don't understand because I was often still in the room.

Beyond that he said all the right things about loving me and our family and wanting to get help. That I make him happy and he wants to make me happy, and that he doesn't know what he'd do without me. He says he's felt physically sick the past couple days from even considering that we may not stay together, and can barely function. I was really shocked to hear these words come out of his mouth- normally he'd rather hold onto his pride than be vulnerable, even if it meant losing me.

I told him how I felt, that I wasn't sure if I even cared anymore. That he'd hurt me repeatedly and that it would probably be easier for me to start fresh with someone new. I told him that the way he would do all this right before having sex with me made me feel like I was just the nearest hole, and that he was just comfortable in our marriage because he had someone always available for sex and who watched the kids. He seemed to be really upset about this and said that it really hurts him to hear that and that he never wanted me to feel that way. I also told him he can get it out of his head that he didn't cheat, and he said he knew.

He clearly wanted to know how we would proceed, but I left it that and told him I'd be meeting with a counselor and a lawyer. He has his first counseling appointment on Monday, and also going to take a parenting class. I'm just lost right now and really don't know what to do. I told him that I wish that I could just pretend it never happened, but I can't. Now I don't know how ill ever be able to trust him again, and I'm tired of living with constant suspicion. I feel relief from having my questions answered, and I do feel they were genuine and honest answers. I just don't know if the long and hard process of recovering from this would be worth it.

Double posted

[This message edited by DOmomma09 at 9:40 PM, October 17th (Thursday)]

Annnd caught in a lie already. I specifically asked him if he'd ever had cam sex again, and he said no. He told me awhile back he had cancelled his account there. So now that I know about this new email of his, I decide to enter it into the "forgot my password" part of the site. Low and behold, it recognized his email and said it sent his password. I was sitting in bed unable to sleep and I just had a feeling I should try it, and boy am I glad I did. I immediately go out and inform him he DOES still have an account there, and demand to know the password. He tells it to me, but says he doesn't remember the screen name. I lie and tell him I don't need the screen name just the email I already know. Then I ask if there's anything he wants to tell me now before I log on. He then proceeds to tell me he *did* indeed have cam sex a second time. He claims it's the only thing he didn't mention, but that obviously means nothing now that I know he's still lying. And the email they sent the account information to I accidentally got locked for 12 hours. Oops. I am desperate to log onto this cam site, I need to see exactly what he did. I told him he had his chance and completely blew it and now not a single word he says matters.

I think you're doing good. But don't back down.

I fear you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg here.

Nobody joins a dating website "just to look."

There is more here. Much, much more. Keep digging.

Yeah after that I googled the screen name he used for the cam site and found he had profiles on multiple hookup sites in the city where he often travels for work. It looked like he hadn't be on them recently but they were created after we got together. He used his normal password for all of them, so I was able to log on. He hadn't messaged anyone. But after finding out all this along with him using the cam site again was pretty much my breaking point. I told him I may not be able to file for divorce pregnant but I will be filing for separation ASAP. He flipped out and wouldn't leave me alone, begging me to give him another chance. Saying he needs me and my help and that he's scared what he'll turn into without me. I was honestly just disgusted with him at this point and his begging only made it worse. I do not foresee myself being able to forgive this now that I know he's basically been doing this since before we were married.

The kicker is during a rough time when we were dating, he found a mildly inappropriate message between me and another guy (not at all sexual in nature). He was furious and has made me feel guilty for it for years. When he first used the cam site, part of the reason I forgave him was because he brought up how he had forgiven me in the past. Now I come to find out he was on multiple hook up sites the whole time, and had the nerve to make me feel terrible because of one message.

((DOmomma))

I'm so sorry. There really isn't any way to describe the disgust and horror of finding out more the scope of the internet infidelities.

Just like he said, because it's so accessible and easy to engage in multiple ways with, the list gets a heck of lot longer and more involved during discovery that you'd expect. When people get into that, it becomes easier to immerse themselves in those false realities than to stay tied to the real parts of life. It's likely very true that your WH didn't think of you - even with you IN THE ROOM - when he was swimming in that toxic illusion. They become so fixated and obsessive about it, real interactions take more attention and effort and they plain just pick the easier path.

I understand completely about feeling like all we represent are convenient facilitators to take care of the real parts of their lives while they stay in their fantasies, whether that's a "hole" or any other impersonal tool for seeing to their needs.

Here's an agreement and suggestion for how to proceed: just as you told him you would, file for legal separation. Make it inescapably tangible. The whole next section of how you deal with him has to be "in your face" real. He has to be smacked with the real life consequences of him choosing those fake lives.

He's going to panic, like you saw. DON'T TAKE THAT PERSONALLY. By that I mean don't feel responsible for the visible pain he'll be in or any promises he'll be quick to make during that panic - think of it as a junkie's withdrawl. Having to deal with reality - and a very intense and unpleasant one at that - is going to feel like everything is raw and too unmanageable to him. Which is, frankly, too damn bad. Remember, he chose this.

In that panic, WH/WW/WSO(s) start to say some pretty terrible things; blameshifting, gaslighting, projection - they'll try to turn the blame all back on you to make you carry the burden of all that hard reality. Sometimes, they'll go from pleading to accusations within seconds. Be aware of what it is and it will help keep it in perspective. Remember your WH has been lying as a way of life for a long time now. That's going to be his default coping method.

Keep insisting on counseling. Not only does he have to face reality in relation to interacting with you, he has to have other outside sources backing you up.

I know it's hard, but don't comfort him. Any excuse that will come along to self-soothe tends to get taken when they are in the panic mode. That means going back to the internet, trying to pretend things are status quo between you or between him and your daughter, or any way he can pretend this isn't really happening. Don't let him use YOU for that.

We're all with you, DO. Talk it out, double check everything. A lot of the damage that comes with this process happens at the phase you're at now because the WH are so fully immersed in maintaining their access to the fantasy.