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We have our 3rd session of MC tonight. My H is trying very hard but during the sessions his guard is up and he gets defensive. I think the C is very aware of this so is trying very hard not to antagonise him and take things slowly.

The A hasn't come up. The C knows nothing about it. I'm of the thinking that my H will bring it up if he wants to but is this me enabling rug sweeping? I just don't know.

I guess what I'm thinking is, was the A really just a by-product and a symptom of problems in the marriage? Now that it's over and done with and we've moved on and committed to R, is there any merit in discussing it? We both know the marriage was in trouble for one of us to temporarily leave it.. surely now the focus should be on remedying that trouble?

I am trying to believe that if my H felt hurt about the A he would talk about it. Maybe he really has just dealt with it in the way he sees fit and I should not be so controlling and bring it up in MC and concentrate on processing and coming through past hurts and moving onto the future?

What are other peoples thoughts on this?

If you bring up the A in MC, you will be blindsiding your BS and I don't think you want to do that. Are you in IC?

Perhaps that's where you need to start. Sounds like your BS is rug sweeping - if you don't speak of it then it will go away. He won't be able to do that forever, but you'll know when it is the right time to start talking about it. He probably needs IC as well. You sound compassionate and caring - I hope you are because your BS is going to become unglued when he finally faces the truth. Good Luck.

[This message edited by devasted30 at 4:51 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)]

I would ask H why he hasn't said anything about it. I'm sure, if your M was floundering all the other hurtful things have been brought up. My feeling is that this needs to be talked about too.

In my opinion it feels like your MC should have all the information.

Your relationship with your C is built on honesty.

If she doesn't have all the information how can she help you, fully?

If the decision were up to you, and you alone, would you bring it up?

Are you in ic as well?

If the affair is what brought you to counseling, it would seem that it's something that should be known to your counselor.

Having said that, at our 1st MC session, I didn't bring up the A initially, went through all the background stuff, etc., then my WS brought up the .

(Not that there are not other problems in a M or other reasons to go to ocunseling, but it is likely the most significant point of conflict in your M at the moment & so the counselor needs to know this.)

Anyway, I was happy that my WS brought it up. It needed to be done.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 6:54 AM, October 22nd (Tuesday)]

The affair should be brought up.

Also the affair did not happen because of the marriage. It happened because of poor boundaries and lack of respect.

Not being mean just correcting you.

Once you get that you will be moving forward in tbe right direction.

I completely agree with Heartache101.

Not bringing it up seems to be a shame-driven decision. If there's one person you have to be honest with, it's your counselor. ...otherwise you're just burning your money.

I am in IC and have spoken about this to my IC and she believes it needs to be spoken about but there are wider issues and isolating the A won't be very helpful, especially as my H is unwilling to talk about it.

It's a complicated question whether it was the A that instigated the MC. I don't think it was, I think we naturally reached a point of complete stale mate where neither of us knew how to move forward. Both insisting the other needs to change in order for us to sustain the marriage. Obviously, these demands that we placed on each other were not helping and we ended up in constant arguments and conflict situations each believing that the other was "wrong". That's what led us to MC.

If the decision were up to you, and you alone, would you bring it up?

Yes, I probably would, but as we move further and further away from the actual A and more towards the actual problems in the marriage (i.e lack of perceived support, not sharing feelings etc) I wonder if it will be useful. What can it achieve? If he tells me he's over it, shouldn't I respect him and not try to control the outcome?

What am I exactly trying to achieve by wanting to talk about the A? I'm not sure anymore. As time has passed, I'm starting to understand that everyone has different ways of dealing with things.

One thing I do absolutely agree with is the C should know. Is it unethical or inappropriate of me to call her and tell her before the session, just so she's aware? It doesn't feel right to do that.

BS here.

Please bring up the A. It makes a huge difference to the MC. My WH denied the A for 4 months in MC and the C believed him. When he admitted it, it completely changed the dynamic. Suddenly, not allowing all the facts to be known, was revealed to be abusive and manipulative and it showed another aspect of our M that needed addressing.

You see, yes, marriages have problems, but the A is like a big grenade going off that affects everything else that is left. Ignoring it won't allow true healing, just rug sweeping

But even more than that, the behaviour of a WS during an A can also have a devastating effect on the marriage because of how the WS feels about the BS and trying to justify their own behaviour.

Also, is there any chance that your BS is waiting for you to own it? Could it be that he thinks you are rug sweeping or blame shifting and wants to see you admit to it to another person (your MC)?

Also, is there any chance that your BS is waiting for you to own it? Could it be that he thinks you are rug sweeping or blame shifting and wants to see you admit to it to another person (your MC)?

No.. I think it's too painful for him to go there and that he's scared of what will happen if he allows himself to admit his wife had an A. He's admitted he's petrified he will end the marriage and that the kids will be affected. So, in order to keep things going, he's detached himself from what happened. He also admits, he has an excellent ability of doing this, avoiding conflict and continuing at any cost. He does this in every aspect of his life. It seems engrained in him.

The reason why I question bringing up the A is because in one thread a few weeks ago, it was pointed out to me that maybe I want him to talk about how the A hurt him because it will validate me and will prove to be some reassurance for me that he cares. I related to that comment and am wanting to make sure I am bringing up the A for the right reasons not for selfish reasons.

It seems rather selfish making/forcing someone to talk about something they categorically have requested not to talk about, however useful it might be.

If you are going to MC, you need to include the A as part of the dynamic for the C to have a better overall view of your marriage history. When you do bring up the A to your MC, it might be a good idea to let your BH know ahead of time you are going to do this and if he chooses not to say anything or listen to it, he is welcome to excuse himself at that point. Or send your MC a note. It wouldn't be fair to blind side him in a MC session and just bring it up.

There is a big difference going to an MC or IC and saying I had an A and by the way here are the issues in our M or saying I had an A and I know it was all on me and I own the fact that I had one.

There are lots of MC's that will link an A to the M. Personally, I wouldn't continue to go to them.

I guess what I'm thinking is, was the A really just a by-product and a symptom of problems in the marriage?

I read your profile and even though you put in July that you own the A and don't blame your M, by putting this statement, it doesn't appear you own it.

That line of thinking puts a lot of weight on your BH and M rather than focusing on you as an individual who made a decision to bring the A into your M.

I could see that if you have this belief consciously or subconsciously, if that is expressed to your BH, I'm not surprised he is defensive in MC.

Yes, I probably would, but as we move further and further away from the actual A and more towards the actual problems in the marriage (i.e lack of perceived support, not sharing feelings etc) I wonder if it will be useful. What can it achieve?

It doesn't sound like a lot has been processed much, just time has passed. You are not that far out from your d'day and it seems like you are putting more emphasis on how to fix your M and BH than on yourself.

(i.e lack of perceived support, not sharing feelings etc)

Are these issues you have with your BH or are these issues with you?

You can't force your BH to discuss the A or work on anything if he is not willing to. I personally needed my BW to hold my feet to the fire to pull my head out of my ass. I know of at least on WS on this site who has a BS similar to yours. He didn't talk about the A but she worked very hard on her own responsibilities and did not tie the M into her A. So it can be done.

You can't force your BH to discuss the A or work on anything if he is not willing to. I personally needed my BW to hold my feet to the fire to pull my head out of my ass. I know of at least on WS on this site who has a BS similar to yours. He didn't talk about the A but she worked very hard on her own responsibilities and did not tie the M into her A. So it can be done.

@lostmylight

Thanks for your input. Can you please elaborate on the above? I don't quite understand. In your opinion what do I need to do? I do take responsibility for my actions and am aware I had other options apart from creating intimacy with another man.

I am discussing the "why's" surrounding this with my IC. We talk a lot about my self identity and how I've felt like I never fit in wherever I go/am. I describe myself as a "misfit" who happens to "chameleonise" to whatever context I'm in, not knowing who I really am. Always trying desperately to not anger anyone and how I take responsibility for other peoples feelings. In my FOO these characteristics have always been praised and acknowledged and rewarded.

I hear what people are saying, that I cannot blame my M or my BH for what I did, but the circumstances I found myself in were a contributing factor. I realise this sounds like I'm blaming but it's how I honestly feel.

It's all so confusing and like a tight ball of string in my head that needs untangling.

BS here.

I think it's too painful for him

Did you ask him if thats what he thinks, or is that just what you think he thinks?

It seems like you are doing a lot of questioning about your reasons behind different choices.

Other than a few references to him being "over it"

you haven't really talked about what he thinks you guys should do with the C.

I would reccommend talking to him.

I would also reccommend bringing it up in counseling.

After a tornado, you don't study the weather patterns to predict the next one. You clean up the destroyed houses and injured people first. THEN, you concern yourself with the next one.

I am discussing the "why's" surrounding this with my IC. We talk a lot about my self identity and how I've felt like I never fit in wherever I go/am. I describe myself as a "misfit" who happens to "chameleonise" to whatever context I'm in, not knowing who I really am. Always trying desperately to not anger anyone and how I take responsibility for other peoples feelings. In my FOO these characteristics have always been praised and acknowledged and rewarded.

I hear what people are saying, that I cannot blame my M or my BH for what I did, but the circumstances I found myself in were a contributing factor. I realise this sounds like I'm blaming but it's how I honestly feel.

It's all so confusing and like a tight ball of string in my head that needs untangling.

Yes, I'm sorry, it does read like blame shifting. Gently: None of the problems in your marriage led to your A because you could have ended the marriage, or gone to MC earlier. It may be hard to face that.

Something that I've heard WS say to other WS - that it's good to find out your whys, but that's not the end of it, then you need to work on changing those things so you're safe. Knowing that you have FOO issues is good. But just stopping there can be a form of blame shifting too. Perhaps a way of saying, 'hey, it's not my fault, my FOO stuffed me up'. Because if you stop there, you can keepsaying that whenever you make poor choices, rather than learning and changing to avoid doing it again.

Is it possible that facing the A and your choices and that you may well need to make changes to yourself, is actually very scary for you?

If you're worrying about blindsiding your H, I would suggest gently telling him before the next MC appointment that you feel strongly you should bring up the A in MC and that you gently intend to do so and is there a way to do it that makes him feel safest?, and that you feel it's important to bring it up so that your relationship can address it, acknowledge it, and heal from it. And that you want to be accountable for your choices. Or you could ask if your H would want to bring it up and explain why you think it's important that it be discussed. I think there must be a way to be supportive and mindful of your H's feelings and also gently bring it into the light in MC.

I guess what I'm thinking is, was the A really just a by-product and a symptom of problems in the marriage? Now that it's over and done with and we've moved on and committed to R, is there any merit in discussing it? We both know the marriage was in trouble for one of us to temporarily leave it.. surely now the focus should be on remedying that trouble?

Firstly, the A was your choice. The M did not cause the A, no matter how "in trouble" your M was.

Secondly, rather than thinking about the M issues that might or might not have contributed to the A, think instead about all the contributing the A did to M issues. All the things the A caused. The A itself is now an M problem. Yes, it needs to be discussed.

Thirdly, the pre-A issues in M are important, indeed. But please be careful not to connect the two. Keep them as separate discussions - otherwise it might really feel like you're blaming the A on the M. Try to separate A issues from M issues, and be extra mindful of your BH's feelings. Listen extra carefully to him and how he's feeling.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 2:03 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)]

I don't have a lot of time to respond at the moment but just wanted to say that what silverhopes states is well said.

but the circumstances I found myself in were a contributing factor.

The more you focus on the external factors, the less you focus on internal factors.

You don't bring it up, no. At least, not until your answer to this question...

was the A really just a by-product and a symptom of problems in the marriage?

...is NO. Not even a little. My interpretation of you wondering that, is it that you're considering the possibility that your A was maybe actually a little justified. Yeah, no. It wasn't.

I am trying to believe that if my H felt hurt about the A he would talk about it.

Girlfriend, I'm an expert in "not feeling hurt" by hurtful things. My C says forcing someone to deal with something before they're ready is dangerous and can lead to a psychotic break. BH may not be feeling the hurt, but you've seen it peek out once or twice, haven't you? IMO he's gotta bring the A up in MC when he's ready. You two need to talk about it, and I hope you won't "graduate" from MC until it's hashed out.

I think you are reluctant to bring it up because you are afraid of his reaction. Please don't rugsweep it.

If he and you bury this now, it will come back to bite you in the tush later.

Personally, I think you should bring it up, blindside or not. For goodness sake, it's MC! He already knows you cheated!

Time to talk about the elephant in the room.

The sad state of your marriage prior to your affair was 50/50 share of the blame between you and hubby. Your affair was a unilateral decision on your part...100% on you.

Having said that, your BH will make no progress in MC if this elephant in the room is not sawed up and hauled out. You need to take the initiative even if he won't.

Trying, lostmylight nailed it.

QS is quiet. He works a crapton. He's reclusive. He doesn't open up. He's not very social. He doesn't spend a lot of time with me.

Yeah? So? Like any of that gave me a right to cheat? Of all the things I could have done with my spare time, I chose to pursue another man. How exactly is that QS's fault?

Was our marriage great? Nope. Still not a reason to cheat. That decision was 1000% mine.

As far as telling MC, I think they should know. That kind of info kinda changes everything, ya know?