SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Because of this...

My IC has also been pretty adamant about not contacting OP spouses.

...I agree with reallyscrewedup7 that you should find a different IC.

With regards to informing OM's wife do NOT tell your WW in advance when you're doing. Considering your WW has already deleted messages be prepared that OM has been given a heads up and told his BW a story. I would not be surprised if she hasn't been lied to and told you're crazy and delusional. If/when you decide to talk to OM's BW then 1) keep it to the facts only, simply inform her and 2) have some evidence (that you're comfortable with sharing) ready to show her to back up your word.

Your WW is clearly still unremorseful. Maybe she'll come out of the fog, maybe she won't. What matters is that you take care of yourself...and protect yourself first.

Welcome back MichMan,

I was wondering how things were going for you. I have to agree with the get thee to an Attorney immediately. Find out what your rights are for separation and Divorce.

You need to get organized and protect yourself financially and mentally.

I too have to say I totally disagree with IC on not exposing the A's with the other spouses involved. If it were you, and you suspected something wouldn't you want someone to tell you if they knew, or had proof?

Stay strong.

The part that really bothers me to this day is that when she took this trip, she was really doing well with her depression and health issues, and I was so proud of her for taking a trip "all by herself." I helped with flight itineraries. I took half a day off from work to meet her at the airport, because I wanted too! I was so proud of her.

It really stings big time...doesn't it? Pretty much what happened with my WSO. Ended up cheating on me with 2 OM on her vacation. I encouraged her to go alone, and was extremely happy and proud of her. She just betrayed me, humiliated me and lied to my face.

Boy was I an idiot!

Also, my WSO has BPD, has tried to commit suicide several times, and has on going mental health issues...so I can relate completely. It's tough!

[This message edited by Jesu at 8:01 PM, December 12th (Thursday)]

Part of the problem with exposing the A to the OPs spouse is that the guy she met over the internet is a ghost, and the BS has not been forthcoming with information. I can't believe the name she gives me (last name of smith) and all I have to go on is his cell phone number, 1 email address, and the name, and that he is a fireman in a city of about 170,000 that has 1 main dept and 3 "suburban" departments. this guy also knows where I live, knows I work during the day. Supposedly he is married with 4 kids, and also works on a family farm with other members of his family. I have a couple people in law enforcement I could ask to help, but I know that legally and ethically they would not be able too.

I probably will out her old high school buddy fling she had in March '12. I have text conversations of the setup and I have facebook conversations of the aftermath, and emails about their next rendezvous that never happened. I'll probably wait until his next roadtrip.

So I asked my BS about a random photo I found on her phone of a guy that I had no idea who it was. She couldn't tell me anything, said she didn't know. I said, "Come on, you took the photo, he is centered and looking at the camera. Who is this guy? Please tell me." And she repeats the Idon't know and then deletes the picture. I said just because you delete the photo doesn't mean it just goes away.

When I asked to hook up her phone to the computer to recover what has been deleted. She refuses. She says I'm being irrational. She says I should ask my IC to see if it is rational. She says her mother thinks I'm being irrational (although Im 100% sure she doesn't know the whole story)

Damn right I'm irrational right now. MY BS made me this way.

Dude she is light years away from getting this, and what she has done. The fact that she refuses transparancy and still is lying directly to your face, knowing full well you know she is lying speaks volumes. Not only that she doesn't get it, but that she doesn't want to get it either.

Who cares what she is telling good old mom, we all know she is getting fed half truths, and mom probably has her veryown special psych issues that aren't being effectively dealt with. (I had a proffesor that always said it takes 5 generations of true dysfunction to make a schizophrenic, and while I don't agree with that, I do agree that dysfunction breeds dysfunction, and on and on).

You seriously need to work on protecting yourself.

(((and strength)))

And I will. I'll be spending my holiday break gathering papers, information, and a meeting or two, continuing IC.

I am going to out the first A. Very simple email with one or two screenshots of their conversations. I am going to continue working to discovering the OM from the internet AFF site. I feel like as long as I don't know who he is and where his family lives he really has me over a barrel if I try to contact OMW.

One thing that has really been bothering me the last couple days is< "Why am I the only one suffering?" Everyone else in this had their fun, or are blissfully ignorant. Probably looking forward to spending the holidays as a happy little campers, while I ride the "put on a happy face" roller coaster. Oh sure my WS is suffering a bit, but at least she had the excitement of all the online and real affairs and sex out of it.

My IC suggested that a meeting between my WS, her IC, my IC and me (4 people)might be helpful. What would be realistic things to talk about or goals at this meeting? Why my need for imformation is driving me crazy? Because she deleted everything or has told me nothing. Give me some ideas, because I have none? I basically feel like if her and her IC try to explain how some post partum depression, disassociation compartmentalization blah blah blah I will just walk out.

MM, first of all *hugs* and know that you're a very strong person to be dealing with all of this and still keep cool, calm, and collected. I, too, have been dealing with a marriage with "too many issues" then discovered "casual encounters" infidelity. (H doesn't know I know yet.) It is such a shock to the system. It's a slap in the face to find out all of this information about As while you've been struggling to deal with the everyday crap that your difficult marriage brings. You aren't alone. And you've already proven your strength. Your actions so far have been great. I hope that as you continue on your path that the decisions come clearly to you.

I have a friend with BPD with suicidal tendencies. She's used her mental health disorders as a free pass for years. Her H tried everything to help her. She never finally snapped out of it until he left for a separation. She's finally now taking responsibility for her actions. I'm telling you this because you still sound very much in love with your wife. If you want to stay together andd R, it is possible, even though her actions right now scream the opposite. However, it may take years of repeated heartbreak for you before she finally comes out of the fog.

The good news is that you don't have to make a decision right now. If you practice the 180 and remain in control of the situation, you can take your time making your final decision regarding D or R. In the meantime, take care of yourself. Focus on your health and your love for your daughter.

Not sure what you would hope to get out of that joint multiple IC meeting, I mean you have a spouse that is still actively lying and hiding. How are you supposed to heal and heal your M if she is continuing to undermine everything?

You need to present her with consequences, and be willing to scorched earth on this situation. I really see that as the only possible way of saving this.

See the attorney, file for legal S, or D.

Then tell her the only way that you are willing to try to make this work is for her to drop all her bullshit.

Depression, Bipolar, Schizoaffective disorders are not excuses for cheating.

Then present your list of what you need for real R. If she isn't willing to play along then proceed full force.

I'm all for R'ing, and I think in some situations that it takes an extreme measure on the BS part to really get the WS to wake the F up, and join us all back in the land of reality. Sometimes it doesn't, and D is the only option you are left with, but I find that to be a much better option than pretending it's all good, and rugsweeping this, and living with the fear of the other shoe to fall so to speak.

You are smart, strong, and capable. You will get through this.

((((and strength)))

Exactly as Tushnurse and others have mentioned..Excellent advice..

I am still living in an in-house separation with my WH until I find a viable way to divorce him without his ruining me financially..

I tried R and counseling..The counselors we went to were more focused on saving the marriage, not addressing my trauma nor giving my WH any 2X4's for his cheating..So I felt a lot of blame..

R ended when WH let me know I wasn't changing enough to meet his needs at a speed he wanted..I demanded that he move out..WH said that he wouldn't, stated the house was his too..By that time he wasn't working( getting paid long term unemployment)..

I couldn't, STILL can't support two households..WH's long term unemployment ended a little while ago..He is getting into a very rough and tight financial situation and is being forced to look for work..Once he is self supporting, I can probably file for D and not have WH considered as my dependent..

My point is that In-house separation can be an option if you can't D right away for whatever reason, financial or emotional..

In house separation is an option that sucks the big one but it is a much better option than pretending "it's all good" so to speak...

Pretending it is all good when it is not is rough on the psyche and the soul..

Any counselor who doesn't immediately confront your WW for the damage left in the wake of her behavior (and the behavior itself) isn't worth your hard earned money IMHO..

P.S..

I just read your thread a little more thoroughly..Mental health issues are definitely not a free pass...And in-house separation for any length of time is not a good option in your case..Filing for D is the best option before she does something stupid to herself leaving you stuck in an M you don't want for the foreseeable future....

After the D, someday, your WW may come out of the fog..Or she may not..

There may be hope for some type of SAFE loving relationship between you and WW ( after a D ) if she has made massive deep changes in herself for the better and you are still available..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 11:21 AM, December 18th (Wednesday)]

Michman, part of the therapy for WH and I involved a 4 person session you were talking about. This was part of WH giving me his full disclosure of all his activities (AKA on SI as timeline). There were a number of reasons they did it this way.

First, because each of us needed professional support to get through the process, because the kind of history revealed is very traumatic for the BS and super shameful for the WS. Second, to keep us on track with getting through it, not getting sidetracked, and not letting either one of us start raging, blaming, etc or anything that would not be productive. Third, because it gives YOUR IC a chance to see what the WS is saying, and her IC to verify some info with you - and I can guarantee you she is lying through her teeth to hers and any MC you may be seeing.

Given what you have revealed about the therapists involved thus far, and being so early in the game for you...I really question if they will handle it well and if it is the right thing for you at this stage in the game. When WH and I did ours, it was a YEAR after DD, exposure to massive TT and false R, and lots of therapy - and would be followed up with a lie detector test. It was part of a very established therapy program developed by experts in sexual addiction. And EVEN then there was some omissions of truth by my WS. I cringe to think your ICs think that your WS is going to be anything close to truthful and productive right now if they all really know what's up with her. Unless they are trying to force you two into a intervention of sorts - which YOU should be fully informed of that plan if that is the case.

Also, in our session, it wasn't just him being able to finally dump all his shit sandwich on me and feel better he finally came clean. I was given the opportunity to give a statement, AKA as an Impact Letter that addressed how his actions affected me and our family. I'm not a therapist, but I think that is a critical component to the kind of meeting they are suggesting to you. YOU should be able to express how your and your kiddo's life have been blown to hell as a result of her past and current choices. She should hear and see what the consequences of her actions have been.

PLEASE take care in collecting evidence for custody. Make sure it being done in the most legal of ways - a lot of what it sounds like you are doing may not be admitted as legal evidence in a court of law. That is not to say what you have collected won't be useful - I know in my case I used it as a bargaining chip for many things - but if your state actually cares about this kind of behavior in regards to custody, you have a very rare opportunity to protect your kid.

Had a really bad night Tuesday night. How do I stop thinking about this shit? How do I stop wondering what happened? I hacked into her AFF profile. She had deleted her profile, but I was able to see the messages from a few different guys. The only silver lining I guess is that she has had no interaction on that site since DD#2 +3 days, which was when she deleted everything on her profile, phone, texts, "most" of the emails, photos, kik app.

Everything she has confirmed or denied I've had to spoon feed her a few details to get her started. Even now my dreams at night (I had not been a dreamer before this shit)are like more real mind movies.

We are leaving tomorrow for "her" family Christmas weekend. I have another IC Monday, I'll need it.

Thanks for all your support and words of advice. Iam only gathering things through her email accounts, which she has given me permission to go through.

[This message edited by Michman at 1:03 PM, December 20th (Friday)]

Wished there was more to tell, but there is not....lol

Tedious holidays. Spent NYE on the couch, her up in the bedroom. Put a hapy face on for the family christmas's. Shortly after New Years she "accidentally" reactivated one of her adult dating websites. She tried to convince me it was someone else controlling the account, went as far to accuse me of doing it. (step back 1). She has since made a little effort as to getting off of these sites....

Couple of days later, she went out with a FOM. Then WW had FOM lie about where they went...stupid really, she told FOM that I said she was not allowed to go to a particular bar--which I have never done. (step back 2)and loss of a FOM in my book.

About a week after that she tried to contact the W of her adult friend finder FB....or at least called the home number. She said she "googled" it, but I spent significant time googling this guy and never found that particular phone number, even with paid services. (step back 3)

Personally, I've been through stages of anger, rage, and indifference. Mostly indifference. I focus my positive time and energy on my daughter and myself. After the baby goes to bed it's back to mr. indifference.

After my meetings and calls to lawyers, D scares the living sh!t out of me. Financially screwed. We've been married for 10 years, and she has been on disability due to physical and mental health reasons for almost 9 years, and I don't expect it to end any time soon. Her long term disability and Social Security disability (and now the child's benefit)= to about 48% of our income. I provide the rest and also the health insurance. And we got the usual mortgage, 2 car loans, 1 student loan, and only 1 more credit card to pay and cancel. But when looking back at what living with this person is like, I don't know if I can be a good father while living with WS. Her behavior hasn't really changed. She talks like she wants the R. But whenever I try to talk about it, it's always "not tonight" or "I cant live like this much longer" which to me basically says she's not willing to help me heal. She seems to think all I need is time and eventually "it" will all go away. I feel like I'm in this limbo state where I have two really bad choices....stay with a crazy bitch who has lied and betrayed me; or consciously make the decision to live a less "comfortable" life. I am causually looking at apartments if that tells you anything...

No one to talk to about it either. My parents have both died, which I don't even know if I would tell them what happened even if they were alive. None of my friends are divorced. And I am reluctant to tell one or two; I guess I am still trying to protect my marriage and I am embarrassed by my WW actions. And in the remote chance of a R that I don't want my friends to know or put pressure on me one way or the other. It seems the lawyers all want to go for the D. "It's important to file first due to possible advantages if it goes to court." WW parents know some of it...but blood is thicker than water.

Thanks for the vent.

Are you in a no-fault state?

I am in a no fault state..

The lawyers I consulted all told me that it does not matter much who files first..

My situation is that I will be 60 by the time I file and a D is final...No custody issues.

My husband is the cheater..

My WH is your WW down to a T..He claims he is disabled but has never filed for disability, SSI or any benefits..He had been getting unemployment and as of a week ago has gotten a job..

We have been married 37 years..My WH has no savings or pension accumulated..

I am retired as of last year, pension in payout..

Things are starting to unfold to my advantage a little bit more in that my WH is now working..

I am letting you know of my situation in order to help you with your decision making...If my 2nd D-day had happened with the same aftermath 16 years ago (your age), I would have filed for D and sucked it up..Kiddos would have been minors (teens) but they would have been old enough to understand our situation somewhat and adjust to the changes..I would have had time and energy (health) to work hard and rebuild a comfortable life/retirement on my own..Had I been stuck with alimony obligations, I would probably be free of them by now..

Now I am scared to death of D because I will be financially screwed with little likelihood to recover and lead a reasonably comfortable life as a senior citizen..I have earned an okay monthly retirement pension, but it is only enough to support one person..If I had a mortgage or rent obligation, I would have to go back to work part time...Divide my pension and add an alimony obligation monthly, and I would end up having to live with one of my kids, take in a couple of roommates ( if I get my own place) or remain in the same house with WH...

Or I will have to work FULL TIME until I die, lol..

The moral of my story is that it is better to know earlier on in one's married life, if the M is sustainable post A.. If not, file for D while one still has time to deal with the financial aftermath of D and rebuild for retirement..

@Michman,

Have you actually talked to a lawyer at all?

There is a vicious cycle that you have allowed to continue. Your WW is still very much a wayward. You''ve haven''t identified them as such but you''ve had more ddays.

You keep letting your WW control the conversation. What do you expect to happen with these talks/arguments/debates?

You confront. She denies. You show evidence. She denies and deletes. Why are chasing this any further?

She has zero remorse. She has zero regret. She is just looking for new ways to get away with it and/or wear you down so you let her do whatever she wants.

This is the position she has put you and your M in. Either accept that she will not faithful, honest or transparent....or don''t. She is not showing the least sign of any alternative.

She reactivated the account for her adult dating site. Think about that sentence. Think about any spouse having to face that their W or H re-....as in activated again...re-activated an account on a dating site (much less an adult site like AFF).

This...

The only silver lining I guess is that she has had no interaction on that site since DD#2 +3 days

...reads to me like she was on it up until 3 days after dday #2. That sounds like just long enough for her to either take it underground or put things on hold until she can wear you down.

Why are you doing all of the work here?

Are the financial issues honestly enough of a reason to put up with this?

Sorry for the 2x4s but it seems like you''ve gotten sucked into this cycle because you expected a different outcome. Like you felt, as most people would, that any WW who doesn''t want to D would not fight you on all of this. Except she is because she can. She is not about repairing the M. She''s focused on how much she can get away with and that''s no way for any partner in a relationship to be.

[This message edited by Brandon808 at 1:51 AM, January 22nd, 2014 (Wednesday)]

Your situation sucks.

If you know the identity of her boyfriend, and have proof - you can post them up on cheaterville.com

This is not about revenge, but about making it known that these people have no problem attempting to destroy a family unit.

You could then anonymously link the cheaterville post to whoever you want.

Furthermore - stop funding her. If she needs money for her life, then she can get a job.

My responses in bold

@Michman,

Have you actually talked to a lawyer at all?Yes, 4 phone calls, 2 meetings, and another appt for next week. The main reason in this state to file first (its a no fault state) is so if it goes to discovery, the filing party has the advantage to go first and ask the witness questions before they leave the stand.

There is a vicious cycle that you have allowed to continue. Your WW is still very much a wayward. You''ve haven''t identified them as such but you''ve had more ddays.Yes, I'm waiting for her to "come around" I guess I keep hoping.I do have an almost 1yr old daughter to consider as well.

You keep letting your WW control the conversation. What do you expect to happen with these talks/arguments/debates?YOu are right again. I don't know what I expect, answers, apologies, remorse, openess, honesty...I get some apologies, she says she remorseful and ashamed, but she also says she doesn't want it thrown in her face forever.

You confront. She denies. You show evidence. She denies and deletes. Why are chasing this any further?Again I have a 1yr old daughter.I cannot throw our marriage away as whimsically as she has. We have known each other for 16 years, and 10 of those years we have been married. I have stood by her and supported her through her chronic depression, chronic pain, going on disability (not working anymore) coming off of pain pills, multiple surgeries, a cardiac event, kidney stones, pregnancy (was a difficult pregnancy) and post partum depression. I'm locked in this role as a caretaker (not that I want that, but for many years this is all I know)

She has zero remorse. She has zero regret. She is just looking for new ways to get away with it and/or wear you down so you let her do whatever she wants.I have not been on this site long, but one thing I have found is usually the "worse case" scenario is generally the truth. You are probably right again.

This is the position she has put you and your M in. Either accept that she will not faithful, honest or transparent....or don''t. She is not showing the least sign of any alternative.

She reactivated the account for her adult dating site. Think about that sentence. Think about any spouse having to face that their W or H re-....as in activated again...re-activated an account on a dating site (much less an adult site like AFF).

This...

The only silver lining I guess is that she has had no interaction on that site since DD#2 +3 days

...reads to me like she was on it up until 3 days after dday #2. That sounds like just long enough for her to either take it underground or put things on hold until she can wear you down.

Why are you doing all of the work here?A question I have asked her multiple times. Since Sunday I'm done. I've begun distancing myself and entering the plane of indiffence to her, her wants, needs, etc.

Are the financial issues honestly enough of a reason to put up with this?That is the question I ask myself a lot every day. If pressed to make a decision at this very moment the anser is no, it's not.

Sorry for the 2x4s but it seems like you''ve gotten sucked into this cycle because you expected a different outcome. Like you felt, as most people would, that any WW who doesn''t want to D would not fight you on all of this. Except she is because she can. She is not about repairing the M. She''s focused on how much she can get away with and that''s no way for any partner in a relationship to be.LOL, felt the 4X4s.Again you are right. I guess no matter how much it hurt me I had always hoped she would come around and start true R.

Im almost 42, in good health. I figure 21 more years of working, put the kid through college.

Im almost 42, in good health. I figure 21 more years of working, put the kid through college.

I just turned 43. My parents went through pure hell for years when I was younger. They stayed together. They did put me through college. They did not truly R. They pretty much rugswept and their M is more adversarial than it is a partnership. I can tell you without a doubt I would have preferred they D than live like they have. It's a waste. Not only that it was enduring example of how not to be. That's all I could learn from them because I never learned how to establish boundaries, communicate in a mature manner or in general what a healthy relationship looks like. Your children don't do what you say. They do what they see. I can also tell you that trying to not be like my parents M has not led to success. At least it hasn't for me.

Michman, first let me say you are to be commended for your ability to maintain your composure and rationality thru all of your ordeal. I could not do that. That being said, I feel bad that you appear to be such a good person that you are continuing to hold on to this hope that this will have a happy ending. I agree with those that have stated that bringing a total stranger hook up from the Internet into your home has put your daughter and you in possible danger. At least if we was meeting this guy at a hotel only she would be in danger. You need to put this woman out of your life for good or you are going to spend most of your spare time for years doing these tracking activities. Based on her behavior, how can you ever believe this will stop. You r better than this. Don't let her to continue to make you her cuckold husband. Good luck

"Im sorry you're hurting. Im sorry Im the one that hurt you. But your behavior is pushing me away."

-WW to me last night....

shortly followed by the "your behavior caused you to jump on a bag of random dicks, that is what's pushing me away"

--me to WW

I was doing so well this month with the 180 too, a big trigger month because I had some of the old texts from OM1 and WW about the boston st patty's rendezvous of 2012. She's already told me she's going to her parents for St. patty this year...good time for me to start packing up my stuff:)

Michman:

Thanks for sharing your story. Your WW is one complete nut-case. She appears to live in a fantasy world where you earn most of the money, take care of her and the kids, and let her romp around and find new boyfriends who shower her with attention. Sounds like she is quite needy.

I see several problems with the way you have handled things thus far:

1) You have not exposed the A widely enough. You mention that you have told her parents, which is good. But exposure is really the best weapon you have to snap her out of the fog. You need to especially contact any and ALL of her former OM spouses. The spouses of OM deserve to know. Finally you need to expose to any close friends between both of you. Exposure is not meant for vindictive purposes but as a way to publicly shame and humiliate the wayward back to reality. She needs to understand how shameful and hurtful her actions have been. It typically takes close friends or family to tell that to a wayward for them to understand. Find more people to expose to, and do it all at once, don't trickle it out

2) Confront. Your confronts have been rather weak. She sees that you have been scared to go through with the D, and is now manipulating you. You need to be ready to file for D and really mean it for it to be effective. If I were you, I would go ahead and ask the attorney to prepare D papers and file them. Have her formally served. For maximum impact, don't warn her ahead of time, and have her served in a public place. Then get an empty suitcase and give it to her. Kick her out of the house. If this doesn't shock her enough, then nothing will

I would stop spying and collecting information on her. She has no interest now to change things because she is getting everything she wants: 1) You are providing for her and taking care of kids and 2) sexual needs fulfilled outside with whoever she wants. She is the ultimate cake-eater and will not change until you stand up for yourself and stop acting like a pussy.

PS - buy a copy of Married Man Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay. Read up on how to act like an alpha male. You are acting like a pussy (beta) so she will continue to walk over you until you stand up.

.......................Kali