SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I believe that the reason for the affair is the key issue; from that information you can decide whether to reconcile or not.

There seem to be 3 truths:

1] The 'truth' from the WS, which is often an exercise in damage control. Nowhere close to reality.

2] The 'truth' we settle for, such as depression, anxiety, coupled with the need for validation brought on by this stress. More bullsh*t

3 The real truth. Just what was going through the WS mind when this affair was planned and organized. The WS seldom discloses this truth because its frankly unpalatable, bordering on unacceptable. Its often very primitive and doesn't reflect well on the WS for using it as a justification. A shameful process better not disclosed.

The large majority of affairs are initiated because of marital resentment, fueling the necessary justification for cheating. Just what was going through your WW's mind when she planned her affair? What resentment did she use to start her affair? Was she trying to punish you for an observed failing? If sexual desire and excitement at the idea of screwing an exotic asian guy were at the root of her actions, then how did she justify this? You had abandoned her in spite of her pleas for help in her isolation and pain; you had put money first?

Search for the ugly truth hidden in undisclosed resentment and you may find out just what petty reason was used to start her affair. I firmly believe that some WS's who state they have no idea why they had an affair are actually refusing to disclose their reason. Just ask them to analyze what was going through their mind during the birth of their illicit relationship; their thought processes and justification used. They would rather pull their own teeth than tell you why; much easier to say I was depressed, blame FOO issues, childhood abuse , death of a parent etc., and hide the actual sordid reasons explained by emotional resentment.

I finally got my FWH to tell me the true justification for him starting his affair. It was submerged anger at the excessive attention I was giving my children and the 60 lbs extra weight I had gained over the previous 5 years. Its not what he originally told me; I got severe work related stress as the reason, rendering him incapable of resisting the flirtation of a co-worker. Sounds better than you turned into a fat slob who couldn't hold a candle to the sexy bod of the OW tramp. The truth is indeed elusive.

remember what i told you a while back? (or paraphrased) you eventually forgive her because of her mistakes. the problem is, she has changed things. You now feel differently about her. Sure, you love her as the mother of your children. You can forgive her and not hate her. But........ not sure you want to stay with her the rest of your life. You see her differently now. she has forever changed the relationship. therein lies the problem.

but i will say this, before you pull the trigger, are you prepared to see her with another man? sure, you can go out on dates, it's great fun. But are you ready for her to now become someone elses? Because it will happen. If you divorce her, eventually she will move on regardless of what she says. Someone will find her attractive. She will become someone elses. The love of your life, will belong to someone else.

are you ready to do that? in my case, i am thinking very, very carefully about this. I recommend you do the same. that's also why i said take at least 6 months. you've got to really clear your head.

have fun fishing. wish i was doing the same thing. instead, i'm freezing my ass off in Kabul.

OK now, I agree with you. but the problem is that I don't want to search for HER reasons to cheat, and don't feel that I should have to. She needs to find out for herself, then PROVE to me that the reasons she gives are the true ones and not some kind of bullshit. Make no mistake that I WILL not accept anything less than complete accuracy and verifiable facts.

Mike, what are you talking about? She already HAS been somebody else's, whether I was ready or not. What difference would it make to me, after the fact? At least by divorcing her, I get the chance , to be somebody else's too. As far as the "love of my life" that is too depressing to think about. If this is what I have to look forward to, then divorce looks a lot better and healthier.

[This message edited by Bdell at 12:16 AM, January 7th (Tuesday)]

Bdell,

I haven't read this whole thread, so this may be a repeat, but ...

Most of the BSes who chose D, or who were forced to D by unremorseful WSes, came to a point when they stopped thinking in 'would I do something other than D if s/he did....' They came to a point where they just knew D was best for them.

You don't seem to be there yet, and that makes sense, given how close D-Day seems. I think you're still in shock and unable to make good decisions for yourself. So don't - don't decide yet.

Also, I suggest that you stop thinking about your W's thinking - focus on you and what you want. You need to know if the A is a deal breaker or not. You'll find the answer in YOU, not in her.

[This message edited by sisoon at 2:18 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)]

Sisoon, I don't agree with you necessarily. If I don't get to the bottom of her thinking, there is zero chance we can reconcile. I will not be married to somebody I can't trust and don't know what is in her head. She will either be an open book or she will be living someplace else.

The reason I got mad and cussed her out, was that right before bedtime, she came into the bedroom naked, wanting sex. Now I am a very highly sexed person and my wife naked could stop a train. SHE KNOWS THIS. So what am I to think? Does she really love and desire me or am I being played? She said that she only wants to prove that she is mine and mine alone. What I told her was that if she was mine, how come she gave my property to somebody else? It degenerated from there. She, pleading for forgiveness and me calling her every name in the book. I AM NOT going to live like this. People who say that I should wait 6 months before making a decision haven't explained to me how I am going to exist in this situation for 6 months, when I can barely get through each day. My wife does everything and much more to prove herself. She starts her new IC on Monday, and has scheduled a polygraph examination, and has taken the swabs from the kids to the clinic to be DNA tested. So she is being very proactive. I guess I am just still in anger mode.

i know exactly what you're saying. however, I think Sissoon is right. She needs to figure out why she cheated. Being lonely isn't a reason. I think OK is probably right, she felt hopeless and resented you for leaving.

But sissoon is right in that ultimately it is up to you.

Do you still love her? That's for you to decide.

And when you do, my comment will make more sense to you. If you still love her, you won't be happy divorcing her, even if you think you should. You won't want to see her remarry. You won't be happy about it.

And to be clear, she always was yours. She just really fucked up in her despair and resentment. As she told the AP, "you're just a substitute." You were always who she wanted. I think deep down you know this.

But... if her actions have ultimately destroyed your love, then staying with her will be miserable and hateful.

So the question is, how long before you can decide if you love her? We are suggesting that you need to clear your mind. That's why we suggest 6 months. But maybe you already know this is a deal-breaker. Maybe you know you don't love her anymore. Whatever the case, the answer is in you.

I get what you and Sisoon are saying, Mike, and yes, it is all up to me, what decision I make.

As far as she "being mine", and the "substitute" comment, the proof is otherwise. I was never supposed to see that comment, I was never supposed to know anything was wrong. If she had come to me and confessed it would be much easier for me to decide to reconcile. I know that she was doing what she and the IC thought was best, but that doesn't mitigate the deception and disrespect.

Well, this morning the Kids left to go back to college, so I told my wife to go someplace else. I told her that maybe she should go to the OM's business and see if he will take her in. She sobbed for an hour, but for some reason I wasn't moved by her tears. She decided to go to my Buddy's house and stay. I just don't want to face her for a while. Am I wrong in that?

Now I KNOW that she is super remorseful, and I KNOW that she would give her life to undo what happened. I also KNOW that she is wracking her brain to find new ways of proving her love and desire and respect for me. I KNOW all that. So why doesn't it help? Just before she left, she said that all she wanted was to be near me and help me feel better, but when she is near me, I can only think of what she did. I want to forgive her, I really do, but it just isn't there right now. And I don't know if it will ever be there. I'm fairly sure that she will never cheat again, and she has said that if it will help me to trust in her devotion,remorse, and complete commitment to me, I can have carte blanche to have sex with anyone I choose, until I feel that I'm able to look at her without anger.

Bdell

You are still so angry. Rightfully so.

Even though you see and feel how remorseful your wife is it does not soothe your anger.

You need to find an outlet.

Maybe a little separation will help you calm down.

Because yelling/fighting with your does not help either of you.

In fact it makes the situation worse.

Do you feel better after you have shown your wife your anger?

Have you received any counseling?

HM

she has said that if it will help me to trust in her devotion,remorse, and complete commitment to me, I can have carte blanche to have sex with anyone I choose

That always pisses me off. How on earth is screwing other women going to make you forget her betrayal? Rebuild the marriage? wipe out the memories?

Tell her to work on a valid explanation for her cheating, instead of trying to get back what is lost.

You are angry - I get that.

It seems like you want her to suffer, you want to punish her, you want her to feel the same pain that you are feeling.

Do you believe your wife is suffering? Does it matter?

If you feel 110% that this affair was a dealbreaker, then the humane thing to do for all involved is cut the cord. But what everyone is trying to convince you of is that you are going to go through various stages and how you feel today may not be how you feel tomorrow or next week.

The affair is fact - it can't be undone, it will always and forever be a part of your life.

The question for you to find the answer to is: can you live with this?

Bdell

Engineer here. Yes there are a staggering number of engineers on this website. It's ridiculous.

As far as what you are thinking I totally get it and I was there. I kept thinking that there was some magic lever to pull to make this better for me and make it somewhat easier to handle.

What I figured out is that there is simply no justice for the BS. None at all.

If you sleep with another woman that tarnishes your commitment and integrity in your own eyes. Any overt action you take essentially gets you nothing. You can't really punish the WW. You probably were really in love before you found out so chances are you still love her.

There is no action you can take that makes this better. There just isn't. All the want in the world isn't going to change that.

I have a 4 year old so my situation was different. If your kids are grown you are in a different situation. Divorce might be your answer.

I'm not sure if you got the "why" of it all. I never did get a good answer as to why. Most don't. That only makes it worse.

Bdell, you are like a Man who has been skinned alive, So of Course everything is going to hurt, Trying to make sense of all this will never end well as what your Wife did was senseless, Time will dull your pain to a certain extent, You may need help to process all this. Take a Buddy on your fishing trip, check about IC for yourself, decisions should be made when your mind is clear and calm, never in the heat of all this swirling mess your wife has left you.

I have to answer the question, is my wife suffering? I would say that she is suffering only marginally less than I am. I don't know if I have ever seen anybody so filled with fear and self-loathing as she is. She told me this morning that she can barely look at herself in the mirror and only does so that she would look good for me. She prays for forgiveness almost constantly and after the affair was filled with self doubt about confessing, and has had suicidal thoughts. These are especially bad during Holidays and any time her memories of the affair fill her mind. She also has said that the only thing that has kept her sane is her love (belated, I know) for me and her overwhelming desire to atone for her sins. (her words, not mine) Sooooo, to make a long story short, I told her I had changed my mind and she can stay. When I told her, she dropped down down on her knees. I don't know how much of this Drama I can take, but I don't think that kicking her out will help either of us. I am alternately filled with anger and compassion, sometimes in the same thought. I fucking HATE this.

[This message edited by Bdell at 1:09 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]

Hello Bdell,

If I don't get to the bottom of her thinking, there is zero chance we can reconcile.

I think many of us thought it was important to understand our WS's A, and the thought process related to it. What I, and I believe most of us, find out is that there is no making sense of an irrational act. Sure, I have learned a lot about FOO, ACoA, and BPD issues. I can understand what FWW is saying when she tells me how she felt, but I have never been able to make the jump to where I understand how having an emotional and physical relationship with an OP and carrying it out in front of me worked and met a need. I understand if you need to find this truth out for yourself, but do not be surprised if there is no clarity.

So why doesn't it help?

Because healing is on you, it is your job. Your WW can help create an environment where you feel safe through maintaining NC, being transparent, being open, working on her issues, and demonstrating that she desires you and the M. Beyond that, you are the one who must work towards acceptance and healing, I am leaving forgiveness out for now.

I encourage you to take the fishing trip you mentioned. Some distance and detachment can be a good thing in the early stages to help focus on you and take the focus off your WW and your M. I also encourage you to consider your own IC to help process through your post dday feelings and expectations. By the time you get well along to acceptance and starting to heal, you will know from watching your WW if you still want to try to stay and R, or not.

--Ats

Bdell had written:

OK now, I agree with you. but the problem is that I don't want to search for HER reasons to cheat, and don't feel that I should have to. She needs to find out for herself, then PROVE to me that the reasons she gives are the true ones and not some kind of bullshit. Make no mistake that I WILL not accept anything less than complete accuracy and verifiable facts.

There are things in life that cannot be proven. Her reasons to cheat are one of them. She can tell you what she was thinking, but how does she prove it?

I think you know this.

You come off as a good strong guy who has been badly wronged. I understand that. But don't place impossible burdens on your wife. All that will happen is that you will lose her and possibly spend many years regretting it.

Bdell,

I understand your pain very much. I think that you are handling this situation the best way that you can.

I would only add that my WW carried on a LTA with the same dude until I finally caught her. The woman that I loved more than anything betrayed me. She showed no remorse and quickly decided to leave to pursue a life with the OM.

How I wish that my wife had the deep and profound sense of remorse that your wife appears to have. Although you have been force fed a shit sandwich, at least your wife knows that what she did is wrong and deeply wants to atone for her mistakes. I hope that you can someday find some peace in this situation and get back to the true love that you once had.

We are all fallable creatures. Who amoung us is without sin?

I am so sorry for your pain and have been following this whole thread. At first I thought you sounded like "The Great Santini", telling your kids and wife how things were going to be over the holidays. That you were going to tell all the family. That she has to do this and that to please you, earn you back. Prove to you all things you were demanding. All understandable. However, not a pretty picture of you and how you handle crisis.

BDell, this whole situation is not going to be black and white. You aren't going to get answers that will ever make sense or make the A go away. The only thing you can do is get THROUGH it, with or without you wife. Only you know if you can do that.

You cling to thoughts of D, but you make her jump through hoops to prove herself. She has done all that you asked and more. Told you repeatedly of her love for you. Yet you keep calling her names and pushing her away. Yes, right now you are hurting, you don't know what you want so you are all over the place. I think the best thing you can do is go fishing and think.

We all hate that our WS were with another. We all hate the pain and betrayal. We all trusted and found the person we trusted most had stabbed us in the back and twisted the knife. At some point, you will have to decide if you can FORGIVE. You will never forget, none of us can.

I don't know how much more your WS can do to prove herself. You have the timeline, the counselor notes, her apologies, her protestations of her love, you see her fear, feel her depression. How much more do you want from her. I don't need to know, but you sure as hell need to get a gripe on what will be enough. Enough pain, humiliation, self loathing and hate for herself what will be enough for you. Until you can define that for yourself, you won't be moving forward. Stop looking back, start focusing on building a new future. If you can't forgive, let her go. If you want to TRY R then start showing her some kindness, or in the end you will lose her because you are pushing her away, and yet are undecided about R.

I am not trying to call you out, but want you to think about what you have been doing and is this benefiting you or hurting you more?

[This message edited by momentintime at 4:40 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]