SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sidney and Moment, what impossible burdens am I asking of my wife? I am asking her to prove what she says and does. I don't particularly WANT to have to demand this, but because she cheated, I can see no other way to even attempt reconciliation. Before I can make the best decision for all concerned, I HAVE to have the facts.....all of the facts, and I MUST know the depth of my wife's love, desire, respect and devotion, to ME. Her mindset during the affair is secondary to this, but would be of help to me.

Moment, if asking for integrity and honor from my wife is"pushing her away", then she can go at any time, with my blessing. I am asking no more of her, post affair , than I would ask of her , pre-affair.

My family is an exclusive club, which she betrayed. Now she has to prove that she is worthy to be re-admitted to that club.

While I have allowed myself a few angry tirades, they have been very few and very brief. My wife's guilt and self-loathing are in her own mind and soul, I never want anybody to suffer as she is suffering now, and I have deliberately done everything in my power to make sure that she is physically and emotionally safe. My actions regarding Christmas and my Mom are proof of this. Had I not laid down the law, the Holidays would have been a shit show of major proportion. I have provided a safe sanctuary for her to begin rebuilding her self image. Contrary to what you might think, I have been a damn good husband.

Bdell, when will you have enough proof? She has provided you with all she has, what more are you looking for? Do you even know? You won't get an iron clad guarantee, we as BS never did nor will, but at some point you have to have faith that you have reached the bottom, and can now work your way up.

I was betrayed, it hurt like hell, but at some point you need to start down the road to recovery with or without her. Right now you are stuck. What you are looking for can't be found, none of us get what you are seeking.

What I was trying to say earlier. You aren't the only one who has a choice. If you continue to punish her at some point she will break. The pain will be too great and she will start to pull away to protect what is left of herself. You can't hold the possiblity of D over her head forever. You can't keep pushing for answers there are no answers for.

I know this is new for you, but you have experienced four good years of her proving herself of wanting your M and you. She went to counseling. That she got bad advice isn't her fault. She has done all you have asked, and according to you even more. She tries to show you everyday how important you are to her. Do you even recognize her efforts? Do you block them with thoughts, she cheated, I can't trust her, she betrayed me AND my family. She isn't WORTHY of a second chance. There is the crux, either you want to try or you don't but limbo is one hell of a place to be. You are sentencing both of you to that living hell.

You can get past this, you will survive. How you survive is up to you. I have yet to get the sense that you have any love her. Perhaps you don't and you are just getting even.

PS: Do you think what you are doing is asking for integrity and honesty? What has she held back? I don't understand what you are seeking and I bet she doesn't either. Hard to make headway this way.

[This message edited by momentintime at 12:26 AM, January 9th (Thursday)]

I will not fully commit to R without knowing the "why " of the affair, as much as it is possible to know. It is simple as that. Plus, I want proof that what she is saying NOW is her real feelings. As far as "punishing her" I will repeat that other than a few choice words, I am not, will never , and have not ever, forced her to do, say or think anything that she has not agreed to. And it has only been 1 month and you are talking about holding D "over her head forever? I appreciate all posts, but I would like posters to stop making grand sweeping statements and stick to the facts. And, do I appreciate what she has already done? More than you or anyone else will ever know.

[This message edited by Bdell at 1:04 AM, January 9th (Thursday)]

I thought you had the why. You gone, father dying, empty-nest, depression, loneliness. She broke plain and simple. Isn't that enough?

Of course she is willing to do whatever you want, she will agree because she is trying to save her M and please you.

I know it has only been a month, and you certainly should take time to decide whether to R or D. Your pain isn't going away anytime soon. I get that you are hurting. Perhaps it is your writing style that makes you sound so cold. I don't think you mean to come across that way, and I apologize if you think I am trying to push you towards something you aren't ready for. I, and all of us, want you to heal, to have a wonderful future. It just takes time.

[This message edited by momentintime at 1:13 AM, January 9th (Thursday)]

No, it's not. There are several issues that have to be answered. For example, She told the IC that it wasn't about sex, so why did they have sex? Now a lot of the issues will be answered during the course of IC. I know that. And I am giving her the opportunity to fix herself so that we can possibly begin a new marriage. All things considered, I think I'm doing pretty well. Also, I don't really care if YOU get any sense of the love I have for my wife. She knows, and that is all that matters.

I am a Mechanical Engineer, If I had better writing skills , I would be a Novelist. Really, Moment, I'm doing the best I can.

You really are doing the best you can; its only been a month and in my opinion you are way ahead of the curve. You are being fair to your WW and its quite reasonable to expect her to define why she made a decision to cheat multiple times, with a high degree of intimacy.

She cannot make the claim she has always passionately loved you without explaining the reasons why she had this damaging affair. If it was resentment then interpret her mindset at the time..

The sooner she does this, the sooner healing can begin.

No, it's not. There are several issues that have to be answered. For example, She told the IC that it wasn't about sex, so why did they have sex? Now a lot of the issues will be answered during the course of IC. I know that. And I am giving her the opportunity to fix herself so that we can possibly begin a new marriage.

I'm nearly 7 years out from discovering my wife's affair. We recovered and remain married. Like most BS I struggled with the "why". Unfortunately it is very unlikely that you will ever get an answer that fully fulfills your current questioning. Frankly, you already have more answers to that question (and many others) than I got (and that goes for many on this board).

If it wasn't about sex then why did they have sex? I think you already know the answer. Women typically don't experience unhappiness in their marriage and think, "what I need is a new sex partner". Women's brains aren't generally wired that way. They give themselves permission to enter into a relationship to address emotional needs. They give themselves permission to have sex in that relationship as a component of the emotional bond they form. Her own words in her IC sessions bear that out. It wasn't about the sex, it was about emotional bonding. I can't tell you how many post I've read on this board in the last 6 years where the WW has said something to the effect of - the sex wasn't even that good, but it was important to the affair partner , and at that point in time, having a relationship with him was important to me.

In addition to what you already know there may be FOO (Family of Origin) issues. There almost always is. Those types of deep-rooted, core, influences on one's behavior are very difficult to unearth. It can take years of difficult counseling to peel that onion. People don't "get fixed". They learn about themselves, try to be stronger/better, and move forward with life.

We went through about 3 years of MC and IC. Some core insight was gained, but not much. I eventually came to accept what my priest told me shortly after d-day when I told him I was really struggling with "why". His answer: "because humans are weak".

[This message edited by wewillmakeit at 9:05 AM, January 9th (Thursday)]

I MUST know the depth of my wife's love, desire, respect and devotion, to ME.

Can anyone ever really know this, even with a spouse who has not cheated? Perhaps it is possible, but this notion seems romanticized.

I will not fully commit to R without knowing the "why " of the affair, as much as it is possible to know.

It is unlikely that you will know the "why" of the A. Sorry, but there it is. Ask the thousands of other BSs about whether or not they truly (and I mean TRULY) got the "why" of the situation. I would wager that a small fraction of those people actually got the whole truth or the why.

The other part of this is that the BS frequently doesn't understand the "why" even when the WS offers his or her true reason for the A. WS: "I was upset because you don't pay attention to me the way you used to, so I broke down and had an affair. I wanted the attention and I was broken, so I did it." BS: "I don't get that. I have been a good partner to you. I share my life with you, I give you backrubs, and I do housework with you." etc., etc.

You want absolutes, but I guess what I am getting at is that you will ultimately have to make a decision without necessarily knowing the depths of your WW's love or the why of the A because neither is 100% knowable.

I need to know these things, as much as it is possible to know. I realize that time and memory and the situation has changed and that she can only give me what she, herself, remembers of her thought processes during the affair. But this , in itself , will help to restore my confidence in her.

I have read most of the thread and believe the most loving thing you can do for your wife at this juncture is give her a divorce.

Bdell,

People make mistakes. I simply judge them not for the mistakes they make, but how they handle it. In my opinion, your wife has gone above and beyond at this stage compared to what many of our own WS have done/not done to show remorse and try to atone for her mistake. She received HORRIBLE advice from the first IC about sweeping the A under the rug. Consider giving this great weight to your wife’s actions beyond the A and into your thinking process of either R or D.

Sorry for making my first post in this forum without proper introductions. I’m new here and will tell of my own story in due time in my own thread in the Divorce/Seperation section. In short, I am a week away from my own D being finalized. It is uncontested, but the WS is dragging her feet in the process. I have two kids.

Bdell,

People make mistakes. I simply judge them not for the mistakes they make, but how they handle it. In my opinion, your wife has gone above and beyond at this stage compared to what many of our own WS have done/not done to show remorse and try to atone for her mistake. She received HORRIBLE advice from the first IC about sweeping the A under the rug. Consider giving this great weight to your wife’s actions beyond the A and into your thinking process of either R or D.

Sorry for making my first post in this forum without proper introductions. I’m new here and will tell of my own story in due time in my own thread in the Divorce/Seperation section. In short, I am a week away from my own D being finalized. It is uncontested, but the WS is dragging her feet in the process. I have two kids.

She told the IC that it wasn't about sex, so why did they have sex?

Oh I fought that one for a long time as well. I will tell you something the IC told me that pissed me off but is so true in retrospect. "Well Lord, They are adults who were in a relationship. That is what adults in relationships do right?" And I would get all pissed and say "yes but she should have never entered into the relationship." To which he would say "Oh, so you understand why they has sex and are trying to figure out why she walked past her marital boundaries and began a relationship in the first place."

You see once the relationship starts they will do what every other adult when dating will do..... It sucks to admit, but the sex really doesn't matter, its the abandoning of the marriage the rest is collateral damage.

I was in your position so I know it is difficult to understand what I'm about to say.

She won't be able to come up with much more than she has. If she does, it will come slowly and it will be "blurry". I think you mentioned that you are and engineer. You like precision, data, facts. You aren't going to get it. At least not quickly and not concisely.

She was lonely, miserable, possibly depressed. You were away. She reached out to a guy to fulfill some emotional needs. They had a brief relationship that included sex. The affair died out rather quickly. She felt guilty about it. She consulted a therapist about it, and on the therapist's advice, kept it secret. Now its out and she feels remorse, regret, guilt, She is empathic to the pain and anger you are experiencing. She wants to do the hard work of regaining your trust and your love.

Moral, good people can transgress into a one-time affair. I suspect, based on what you've said, that this applies to your wife. You have all of the ingredients for reconciliation. Resist the urge to side-track that by prioritizing acquisition of facts/data that you may never get. I did that very thing and it almost derailed our reconciliation and, to some extent, wasted about one year of counseling.

I need to know these things, as much as it is possible to know. I realize that time and memory and the situation has changed and that she can only give me what she, herself, remembers of her thought processes during the affair. But this , in itself , will help to restore my confidence in her.

I personally think it is too soon for you to stop asking questions or to try to squelch your anger.

Even though she hid this deceit for 4 years, you are just now finding out that your wife took a lover whilst being married to you.That shit hurts!

"I need to know these things..." As her husband you are in a 'need to know position'.

This^^^ is not punishment, its just the natural order of deception and discovery. She seems willing to give you what you want to know, to really want to put you at ease no matter what her discomfort.

That is good. Ask as many questions, over and over if necessary to help you feel better. You and only you will know when you have had your fill of answers.

Don't feel bad about quizzing her. The tone and timber of your queries will lessen over time as you make your way to acceptance.

You need information to help you re-adjust your new reality. The paradigm for your marriage has had a seismic shift. And your WW was the perpetrator. It's true, she did take a lover.

Part of the pain and anger you are feeling is your brain re-booting and over-writing what you thought was your past and now what you know is your past! This is why it is important to get all of the truthful info you feel you need in order to make an authentic, realistic choices about the future.

Mr. Happy and I are almost 3 years out and the betrayal still hurts like hell. BUT he has really gone out of his way to help me to feel wanted and SAFE. At DD, I did not believe that he was worthy of my being vulnerable with him.

I quizzed him every which-a-way and continue to do to this day.

I gave him vulnerability and trust with my life and love when I married him. He shit on all of that. So it took and is still taking years to recover from his horrible choices.

I am making my journey back to him. He had to woo me and put as much if not more energy into our marriage and me than he ever put into that whore.

The good news is Mr. Happy is tireless in his quest to help me heal.

We have both really tried to pick up the pieces of our shattered marriage and move forward. It has not been easy.

We persevere.

Seriouslylostit, my wife would disagree with you till her dying day.

Getting to Happy, my wife agrees with you and so do I. She told me again this morning that she will work hard to repair herself and do whatever it takes to help me heal. She also said that for the rest of her life, she will act, think and breathe for me and me alone. I am beginning to believe her. We have decided that every night we will examine our progress, but that we will also try to spend some time together without talking about the affair. Actually, I may have made a big mistake. My wife was taking a shower and I went into the bathroom to get my aftershave and it happened. I don't know why it happened, but it did.

I remain convinced your wife knows why she cheated 4 years ago. Its almost as if she decided to take a substitute husband to replace you for some of the time you were away. People don't do this because they are lonely, miserable and depressed; that would turn me off sex. They do it because the marriage has entered a down cycle connected with your absence and your reluctance to let her join you. So she replaced you.

The sex was an integral part of the new relationship; like renting a car because your own car was being repaired. She suspended her real marriage and 'rented' a new one. Its difficult to ascertain whether she got alarmed at the possibility you may find out about the affair; particularly if the OM was pressurizing her for more sex, or if it was intense guilt at her betrayal. Either way she needs to explain if she truly wished to reconcile and satisfy your requirements for the whole truth.

Hugs to you ((((Bdell))))

I am mystified why there are voices on this thread that think that having a healthy sense of self respect and being repulsed by the deceitful betrayal from the one person who vowed to love you til'death is getting so much blowback?!

I remember in bright edged detail how searing the pain was on DD.

Your reactions are spot on.

I am glad that your WW is forthcoming with info and transparent as she can be.

But that does not take away the betrayal.

This will be a rollercoaster ride for while. And not a fun one.

You are very brave to give your WW a chance to redeem herself to you.

I wish you strength, clarity and grace in your journey back to a peaceful marriage.