SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Maverick, I totally get it. If we just understood the situation like you did, we'd understand.

I just wanted to highlight something...

I don't think it's an issue of not being able to support her...he could if he wanted.

I think this is a correct statement and your WW knows this. What she also knows is that he isn't going to support her and she isn't going to change that. This inflexibility he had destroyed one marriage. He will let it destroy two. I think she probably also knows that she can't live the lifestyle that she wants to alone. She needs help.

It's clear to everyone that the OM will not support her and give her the security she needs. But... she really wants to be with the OM.

So thinking logically without emotion how do you solve this problem?

It's simple. You find a guy that will meet your financial needs and the needs you have for security. The catch is this guy also has to put up with you having an affair.

You sir, are that guy.

I'm going to send you a PM in a bit, be looking for it.

I guess I don't see the positive aspect of you staying in this marraige. What are you getting out of it? Do you really want to spend any more years like this. Everyone deserves to be in a realtionship where they feel valued and adored.

[This message edited by naivegirl at 12:06 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)]

I question whether it has to do with the OM specifically or if she's trying to live a life with one foot in the single life, the other in a family life. I've chalked most of the feelings she's expressed up to being in the fog and trying to compare the "relationship" we have now to that of the OM. What I'm ultimately acting on are what she actually does.

naivegirl... I stick around because things weren't always as bad as this...I hope that with enough discussion (probably a lot with a therapist in the room) we can roll things back to that point and move ahead with a better understanding of one another. If that's not a possibility, I want to learn enough about where I went wrong in the relationship to give the affair this much room to run rampant and what I can do to fix it. I also feel that I owe it to my daughter to do everything I can to work things out with her mother. My parents divorced when I was one, so I knew nothing other than a split household...and I hated it. If I can avoid putting her through that, I will (unless the alternative happens to be worse).

the only thing that I accepted responsibility for was allowing a situation to exist in our marriage that would leave room for an affair

Brother that is taking responsibility for the A. There is never any "room for an affair". It is a choice. Pure and simple.

I also feel that I owe it to my daughter to do everything I can to work things out with her mother.

I understand this feeling, but I going to disagree with you here. You owe it to your daughter to be the example how to conduct your life with integrity, self-respect and dignity. Taking this kind of treatment from your WW is not good for any child. I know. I speak from my own experiences growing up and quite frankly it would have been a much better example to see the parent being cheated on not take it. If I had been given a choice I would have easily opted for split households if it meant the cheating didn't get rugswept because true R never happened. Oh, and there was blameshifting galore. Would you ever in a million years want your daughter to go through with or tolerate for one second the treatment you've endured? Supposing your daughter's husband was doing the same thing? Suppose he got angry at her for "snooping" when in reality it was uncovering literally years of lies? Suppose he tried to justify to her that his cheating was ok because he was "bored in the M" and feeling neglected? How about the neglect your family has endured by your WW? You nailed it. She has not been a good mother during the A. She could not be because she devoted so much time, thought and attention to the OM, who is himself a piece of crap. How about this one...would your WW ever in her wildest dreams want her daughter to end up with someone like the OM? If she says yes then you have to D her because that is just insane.

Your WW left your and your daughter to behave inappropriately and party with other men while you were on a cruise. She was treating her family like a nuisance. Like the both of you were keeping her from having her fun. Quite frankly it seems the reason she wanted you on the cruise was to look after your daughter. That is mind boggling. You and your daughter both deserve better than that. You are a good man. You need to really take a hard look at yourself and realize that your WW does not deserve you. It is not fair or just, but this is what she has done.

Brandon, I spent a fair bit of time today thinking about what you said. Perhaps a better way for me to think about my role in what's going on is that I share responsibility for the problems that existed in the marriage before the affair. She gets ownership of the affair and the fallout from being a dopamine junkie.

Please don't misunderstand what I mean by "doing all I can" to work things out. I'm prepared to take a hard look at myself to see what I can do to make myself more attractive. Whether my WW meets me halfway on this is up to her. When it comes to R, it'll have to be on my terms. I don't expect that NC, transparency, and honesty would be too bitter of a pill for her to swallow. Still...before I get ahead of myself, I am also getting things up for the other alternative.

Maverick- You are getting ahead of yourself. Until and unless she comes to you on her knees beginning for another chance, there is no chance. Your best bet is to start to move on without her. If she sees you moving on and want to try to reconcile, great, you have an option to consider. Right now, the only option you have is divorce. Start moving on and no matter where you end up, you will be better for having begun the process. Every day you sit and wait for her you are adding to the pain for both you and your kid.

Well that didn't take long...

Quick backstory. My WW basically has three close friends. A coworker, a former coworker (the now OM), and me. Just to throw it out there, the current coworker never has a chance of becoming a second OM, so we shouldn't waste typing entertaining that thought. Last night she somehow went and pissed off her coworker enough that he left their holiday Christmas party an hour early and hasn't spoken to her since. This happens all while I've bed doing my damnedest to pull a hard 180. It's actually been a good distraction to think about what I need to do rather than the affair.

So...things did get interesting this morning. I get a text saying that she wants to stay and work things out. I told her that we should talk about it tonight and not over text...she didn't find it encouraging (so she told me).

I'm hoping I can get some critique on my game plan for the evening. We'll likely have the conversation in the bedroom after my DD goes down. I tell her that I'm glad that she wants to stay and work on the marriage, but if she does it will have to be on my terms. There are four things that she has to agree to:

1. No contact with the OM. If he does try to contact you or for some reason you talk to him, I want to know.

2. Honest answers to questions.

3. Transparency in her actions. Login info for the cell accounts and password for her phone.

4. Space to start living my own life outside the relationship

If she agrees, just smile, say that I'm glad we're moving forward, and get on with my workout for the night.

Thoughts on what else I should add/change?

I'm betting that we'll have a talk about the affair this Saturday evening.

Sorry, Maverick....I just got home, and saw this last post.

In a nutshell--this is not a negotiation at this point. You both had faults in the marriage. She chose to have an affair.

Nothing....I mean NOTHING....gets offered from your side as a bargaining point. First, the affair gets addressed. Second, both parties agree to commit to attempt reconciliation. Lastly, you both put your marital issues on the table.

It is a huge process from first to the last point. I would be surprised if she agrees to the first step---addressing the affair---but I have been wrong before.

Be strong. Be unwaivering. It is your strength that will help you, and believe it or not, appeal to her. She might not get that today, or tomorrow, but if she does defog, she will appreciate your firm stance.

There are depressing threads in this forum, and then there are these threads....

What are you doing? Just.....no.....

You have not addressed the affair, and now you are making plans for the rest of your marriage...

At what point will you start standing up for yourself?

What you have asked for will simply help in eliminating this particular fuckbuddy. What about the next one, and the next one. These men are not the problem - your wife is. If she had any respect for you she would have turned these men down.

She only wanted to work on the marriage AFTER her fuckbuddy got angry with her and left. Right now she sees you as a meal ticket. Nothing more, nothing less. For her this is damage limitation to make sure that she keeps her lifestyle with you paying the bills.

You have not given her any consequences for her actions, so how the hell do you expect her to change her behavior!??!?!!

Honestly, if i was your wife i would be laughing at you if i wasn't so depressed from reading your story. "Wow, i get to cheat as much as i want as long as my husband gets space to live his own life. Jackpot."

My intention isn't to insult you but jesus christ man....

Thought I’d post a quick update.

In all honesty it seems like not much has changed over the past month. Things at least haven’t gotten worse. Our communication has improved quite a bit (in that we are openly talking), but the OM is still lurking in the background and she “isn’t ready” for transparency. What she done is agree to stop actually “seeing” him and kept me informed of where she’s going, when she’ll be home, and who she’ll be with. I’ve backed off from trying to actively fix the marriage and started worrying about taking care of myself. It seems like some aspects are taking care of themselves with time (getting to know one another again, finding common ground, etc.).

I realize that even though she claims that she and the OM only text/speak occasionally now and even then only about “unimportant things”, that in all likelihood there is still an EA going on and she’s just prolonging her attachment to him. Whenever she starts throwing around words and phrases like “building trust” or “working on the relationship”, I remind her that she needs to be the one to start by breaking things off with the OM once and for all and to start earning her trust by proving that she’s done cheating. It’s still something of a conversation killer, but at least it’s a place to start from.

@Maverick1998,

How long do you intend to go on like this? How long can you tolerate things like this?

You said things haven't changed but they aren't worse. I would suggest that by them not changing that is worse because without fixing the M it is comparable to an untreated wound. Those only get worse with time when nothing is done about it.

Maverick, I keep reading your posts waiting for you to see the truth and I feel bad it does not seem to be happening. Your wife has been cheating on you for virtually the entire relationship, is still actively in communication with another man right now., and you are still talking about fixing things. Most disrespectful of all to you was the cruise episode. She probably hooked up somewhere while you were in your cabin on a cruise you probably paid for. I apologize in advance to you but you should google the word "cuckold", because that is where you are heading. Your wife, for whatever reason, cannot do without the physical and emotional connection to other men. If you are going to let this go on, you she be honest with yourself and just take her to a swingers club. At least that way she"ll do what she wants but you won't have all the trouble and heartache of trying to cope with it, and you'll get laid in the bargain. Other than that you need to get rid of her ASAP . That is probably a better choice.

In all honesty it seems like not much has changed over the past month.

It will when you serve her ass with the divorce papers. Her hopes of a meal ticket and dreams of retaining a cuckold husband would suddenly disappear! For her, the shit suddenly gets real.

but the OM is still lurking in the background and she “isn’t ready” for transparency.

The EA is still going on. "isn't ready" for transparency my ass. She is trying to find a new angle to keep the status quo, buying time to brainstorm it with the OM.

The first real "change" that I'll recognize is when she starts NC with the OM. There have certainly been positive changes to the relationship, but as other posters have so frankly suggested, what does it matter when she's still talking to the OM in secret.

She knows where I stand on NC and transparency. When we talk about earning trust, the conversation usually ends with her asking me if at some point she just wants out and me telling her that she's free to move on.

How long can I put up with her continued contact? I honestly don't know. I'm taking a "Plan A/Plan B" approach. I know how she is...non-Newtonian. I get the greatest response the less pressure that is applied. While I work on Plan B I'm getting Plan B lined up. I'm meeting with an attorney tomorrow. I've started sniffing out all the connections is need to cut in order to severe the financial relationship. I've started an inventory of our material assets.

When the timescale for changes in relationships is on the order of months, not days, what need is there to rush?

Read through this entire thread. Wow.

I'm going to focus on a different area. I've been through divorce with my wife. We wound up getting remarried and have a great life now, but I'm going to focus here on the divorce part.

When she left me I was a train wreck. From her walking out with me knowing nothing to us being divorced spanned only three months, hence the name WarpSpeed.

What I'll tell you is that literally the day I came home to an empty closet and a note, I determined I was going to work on me. At first it was to "win her back" but in the course of a month or so, that transitioned to working on me to be a better me. A better me for friends, family and whomever was in my life down the road.

I can tell you I was forging a new life. I was happy. I was going to continue to be happy.

You absolutely can do the same thing. Set aside working on your WW. Start figuring out how to have a great life for you and your daughter. MOve on. You can and will have a good life if YOU choose to create it.

If at some point your wife wakes up, you can entertain whether you want her as part of your good life. But, don't make that the goal. Make your healing, your life, your daughter's life the the focus of your energies.

You need to know, with certainty, that there is a great life out there if you just choose to create it. Honestly, I don't see that including the wife you've described. But, that part is not relevant to what you need to do.

You need to move on and rebuild your life and heal. Focus there. Start really working on how to live independently and be happy. If she ever wakes up, you can make a decision at that time about whether you want to rebuild with her. But, that is way down the line. Move on with your life. Get your life moving in down a path towards happiness and set aside trying to do that with a WW that is in no way an actual partner right now.

It can be done. I've done it. Many, many people have done it. You move on. You heal. People here will help. You will be happier. There will be pain and struggle, but you will work through it and emerge a better person with a better life.

good luck

[This message edited by WarpSpeed at 7:07 AM, January 30th (Thursday)]

Holy cow. It never ceases to amaze me how much people are willing to put up with. This has clearly been going on for a while now so I'm not going to hold off on the 2x4s.

How much is required for you to finally stand up for yourself? So I'll ask directly.... will it be "enough" when she asks if the OM can sleep in bed with the two of you? How about when the OM needs a few dollars - can you give him a loan? How about when your WW actually begins to piss on your leg? Will THAT be enough for you to finally look in the mirror and say, "I don't deserve this?"

Your wife is pissing on you, Maverick. It has been going on for a LONG time. You have made demands and she has laughed at you. She is still in contact with the guy and you are not only paying for it financially, you're babysitting while she's out with him.

Take a deep breath and look in the mirror. Whatever you think about yourself - good or bad - recognize that you do NOT deserve to be treated like this and that your wife is a complete and total asshole.

She asks you to come to bed for a movie - but you can't touch YOUR OWN WIFE? Dude, I'm sorry but you need to stand up for yourself and start laying out the tone for the rest of your marriage (and, as it seems, for how you're going to live the rest of your life, married or not).

When she goes to work, pack her bags and throw her out. The OM isn't good with money? What the hell do YOU care?? Let him support her. Show her that you will NOT be treated like a doormat and that she has a decision to make - you or him. That's all. No discussion. She's had plenty of time to decide.

If she looks at you and says anything other than, "You. 100%," then you owe it to yourself and your daughter to immediately end the marriage.

I feel for you - I really do. I know how much hurt this must be causing you. But your wife's infidelity is no longer new - it's been going on right in your face for a long, long time.

Why would you allow someone, anyone - especially your own wife - to treat you this way????

I also just read all of this. Oh My God.

Maverick, it's time to end it. Seriously, she is getting every last thing she wants. She still has you hanging on, hoping, and she still has OM. So basically, other than tossing you a thread of hope that you're clinging to for dear life, she has not changed one bit.

She knows where I stand on NC and transparency. When we talk about earning trust, the conversation usually ends with her asking me if at some point she just wants out and me telling her that she's free to move on.

You are right - she knows where you stand on transparency and NC - she knows you absolutely do not demand it. As long as she is speaking to OM, you should not be talking to her, at all. You 'kind of' did a 180 earlier, and she sent you a text about maybe wanting to work things out, and you jumped in with both feet.

Maverick, everyone here is saying your wife needs IC. I think you do, and I'm sorry, but I think you need a lot of it. You are willing to take less than scraps from a selfish bitch that doesn't give two shits about you other than as a housekeeper and babysitter. Why won't you stand up for yourself? Why won't you acknowledge what a miserable person you married and get away from her?

Oh, Maverick, here's food for thought - the way your wife treats you is the way your daughter is going to learn to treat men. I can't think of another man alive that would put up with the shit your wife is throwing at you daily, so your daughter is going to live a lonely life. Your wife already does - she only has you, a guy she fucks, and one other friend. She's the kind of woman other women run from, obviously. Is this what you want for your daughter?

[This message edited by painfulpast at 8:27 AM, January 30th (Thursday)]

She knows where I stand on NC and transparency.

So what? She knows where you stand. What good does that do? There.are.no.consequences.

When the timescale for changes in relationships is on the order of months, not days, what need is there to rush?

Except the most important changes that need to happen are not on the order of months. You could even argue they aren't on the order of days. NC and ending the A is not a process. It is a decision that must be made and implemented. Choosing to R doesn't take months. It shouldn't take months if she is remorseful (which she is not). The process of healing will take a long time but it requires making the decision and sticking with that decision over the courses of years, not months.

You talk about your WW as being non-Newtonian. You talk about Plan A/Plan B. Quite frankly you seem somewhat detached as if you're not feeling the full impact and you certainly don't seem to have found your anger. I saw an earlier post where your WW was unfaithful before you were married. She used an excuse about wanting to take advantage of her youth. Now is the blameshifting that it was your fault. Respectfully she will find any reason because she has shown that is what she wants to do. Her pattern of behavior has shown she wants to use your support, your stability but will not honor it with fidelity. She has actively undermined the M and takes advantage of your loyalty, your ability to weather these issues. She is exploiting your better nature.

When the timescale for changes in relationships is on the order of months, not days, what need is there to rush?

You say this as if your WW wants to change. But--she doesn't. The "rush" is clear. You can start to become independent and find a healthier life NOW if you move forward, not with the idea of her miraculously waking up, but by waking up yourself and refusing to accept this. Get a lawyer, get an IC, get a better life without her and figure out why you put up with this in the first place.

Maverick,

You are taking some lumps from us, because we have seen this scenario get played out time and time again. For whatever reasons....my bet would be fear....you are unwilling to enforce boundaries. And when I say boundaries, these are ridiculous that they would even have to be asked/demanded in a marriage. Who the hell ever thought they would have to tell their spouse that it is NOT OKAY to screw other people?

But here you are, with that exact situation on your hands, and your WW is scoffing at you. Virtually rubbing your nose in it. I hate to say it, but she has less than zero respect for you. All she has is contempt and resentment for you....along with a huge sense of entitlement for herself. I understand that you are hurting, but you are on a sinking ship...and your daughter is with you. She is learning what a *marriage* looks like, right in front of her very eyes.

And the worst possibility, in my opinion, is that your WW doesn't put in the effort, and thereby leaves you with the decision to continue towards divorce, or stay in a state of limbo, with the hopes of a miracle happening.

and

My friend, inaction IS an action

I wrote those to you almost a month ago. Nothing you have mentioned seems to contradict this path.

Please for you daughter's sanity, and your own, stop accepting this behavior.

[This message edited by jb3199 at 11:37 AM, January 30th (Thursday)]