SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I agree the advice may be all the same but the more a Ws was invested in the A sometimes the longer it takes to sink in. Takes longer to lose feelings for Ap and get out of the fog to be able to move forward. One thing I have learned is that things take time!

Yes I totally agree. I came here as a WS and it did take me time. But I'm glad I had a combination of people saying "I support you" and people being more straightforward about holding me accountable. A lot of them pissed me off, and I dismissed completely. I got PM's about some of my posts from people who read my posts and identified with my BS and wanted me to do what they would like their own WS to do. I was grateful (ish) but then alienated them when I didn't immediately agree, or do those things and report back. Yet I was moving forward and I knew I was.

But there was no one at that time on the WS boards telling me that I could be dishonest and hide stuff long term. And I'm so glad, or I would have taken that liferaft and floated as long as I could.

I don't think there's anything wrong with healing in your own time. But if you float along in limbo for too long, it's like you're making a default decision to never confess, or to always have the A being this ghost in your marriage, as real as a third person but invisible. So I think taking your own time has to be combined with actually making progress towards honesty - that's all.

After a while you might think "maybe I never have to tell" and there's the danger... the heartbreak of the people who find out many years later.

So I don't disagree with you about time, and I totally get what you're saying about posters who are healed expecting instant results from WS who are still trying to come to grips. I think that might encourage false "getting it" while secretly the WS has not "got it" - I'm sure a lot of my posts made me sound farther along than I was in my head.

But I also believe that honesty is what the end goal should be, and that's where the WS is headed, even if their travel there starts out as a shuffle, or two forward-one back. I don't think the end goal should be a choice between honesty or dishonesty + limbo.

I find it interesting that a website that does not condone talking about religion places such a high importance on the practice of confession.

I'm pretty sure we use confession by its ordinary meaning: speaking with honesty about something you've been hiding. And of course a place that promotes strong marriages would also promote speaking with honesty to your spouse rather than hiding facts about your marriage. That's how you get to reconciliation (also used in its ordinary relationship sense).

Please read Maia's recovery guide ASAP.

OK, I'll consider it. Is it on this site? Where?

Wait, I'd like to suggest you please read Maia's recovery guide soon.

No need to get sassy. In a thread about "wayward forum is tough lately", you demonstrate the need for the thread itself.

One thing I can say is when a wayward finally comes and posts on this site, they are almost always invariably "DONE" or as near as possible to "DONE".

It's when you're:

1. sick of the affair and needing some confidence to end it

2. know it has to end and AP is close to ending it and you know it's the right thing but need some encouragement knowing it's the right thing to do

3. Just ended and A, wanting to R with BS but also withdrawing from the A/AP

4. have been "caught" and are now wanting guidance in how to fix it

5. Their BS's have asked them to find their why's and ask for help on SI

Obviously, there are many other reasons why waywards initially come to this site, but often they fall into one of the above. For me it was number 3.

I guess what I'm saying is you may get a lot of lurkers who are nearing the end of the A, but when someone actually posts, they've made enough of an effort and have most probably made the decision in their head to end it but need the support in actually doing so.

Note about website: As someone who is still and will probably be working on himself for a lot longer, this site has always been helpful. A place to go when I think I am alone, a place to find answers and a network of good poeple to reach out to.

Note to people upset with members on website: Of course there are a lot of poeple on here with a lot of different personalities. This will always be the case on forums.

Note about WS's: I was lucky enough to see that I needed to get into R asap and do what ever it took. NC, IC, MC, reading and reaching out to people here. Sometimes it feels hard to be a wayward, but someone smart told me to always think of how my behavior, attitude and how the things I do effect my BS. When I do this, it is easy to get over my own sh!t and be the person my wife needs. I am not as good at it as I should be, but I am working at it and our R get's better because of it.

And another thing, I find it interesting that a website that does not condone talking about religion places such a high importance on the practice of confession.

I'm not sure where you get that from because talking about religion and faith is perfectly fine here.

Debating religion and faith is what we ask member to refrain from.

Big difference

DJ - Aubrie kindly bumped Maia's guide. And some other interesting and informative threads.

No need to get sassy. In a thread about "wayward forum is tough lately", you demonstrate the need for the thread itself.

I haven't been called sassy since, like, 1972.

Not a word comes off my keyboard and onto this site that doesn't:

1) have the intent to challenge, encourage, relate, empathize or help. And I use a myriad of styles and subtext to nuance those goals.

2) demonstrate that I need all of those things in #1 above from SI. That's why I'm here.

What I can't figure out is why you're here. And I'll reduce my sassyness by 99.99% while I scratch my head in wonder.

Welcome, DJ. Since I'm JD maybe were destined to be oil and water, or yin and yang.

I will reiterate how sad I feel for you and your "in the dark" betrayed wife. Your words here on SI are some of the saddest I've read. I'm speaking solely for myself, and investigating why they make me sad (and also angry) is helping me learn and grow more authentic. So, yup, you're helping this sassy ass.

I'm left to wonder, is anyone here, including sassy me, capable of helping you? And are you capable of helping you?

Wayward Side getting tough? Good! It should be tough. Tough to read. Tough to relate. Tough to admit tough fucking stuff about fucked up stuff we've done. You wanna blow hot air up your IC's ass and get told what you want to hear for 6 or 7 years. Great. That IMHO defines easy. You wanna get real...that's beyond tough.

I'm here for tough. I need it to heal and grow and become authentic.

I'm an atheist. I hate Kool Aid. And finding truths about myself, and learning how I can nurture the good ones and excise the ugly ones is why I'm here.

JD

I just want to add that we are a self selecting audience. We are on here to TRY to change. Had we not cared or wanted to continue along the same path, we would still be in the fog making ourselves unhappy. We are on here voluntarily. It's hard (even on an anonymous forum) to come admit you are a shitty person. People are ready when they are ready and 12 people bullying the same point over and over again isn't going to get that person to change quicker. Some of us have a LONG way to go but baby steps.

People are ready when they are ready and 12 people bullying the same point over and over again isn't going to get that person to change quicker.

People here aren't "bullying" as far as I've seen. They are being reasonable, but firm.

There is a reason people reinforce the same point over and over. Think of someone trying to negotiate their way out of something necessary - they will try excuse A, excuse B, justification C, rationalization D. If you were trying to show that person that none of those things is going to get them to their goal, you'd find yourself reinforcing the same points several times, too.

And how do you know it's not going to get that person to change?

It got me to change. It got others here to change.

FWS stick around here because we're so grateful for those changes that we are trying to pay it forward to the next person making excuses and justifications A through Z. And we need to keep ourselves honest, too. We learn, too.

Good topic

I spent 8 years in the military, when I got there, it was a huge culture shock

The things they made me do seemed repetitive, mundane, disrespectful (because they Made us do humiliating things)

But at the end of it all, it made me a soldier. It made me a soldier like many before me, because those methods worked to make soldiers

Could all cut it? No. But lots of us did.

In affairs, you have convinced yourself that a lot of your bad marriage has been the fault of your spouse they are the big bad wolf

They didn't give you enough of this or that and newbies bring that Same mentality here. I couldn't get it from my spouse and I'm a victim. I'm hurting too because I Just dropped my boyfriend/girlfriend and write huge paragraphs about their AP and about a couple of good Sentences about their spouse.

This is surviving infidelity, not Advocating infidelity and the methods of survival demand truth, honesty, transparency and remorse. Not a big group hug of "I miss my AP" we know they do we missed ours too and the methods here knocked us back into reality.

How do you know what works in a situation you never really been in before?

You don't so it would be wise to listen to those who have. We know the "newbie" WS mindset.

We have seen it thousands of times over. We have been the newbie mindset.

Just like in the military, I thought somethings were not necessary when I went through basic training. I found that they were quite necessary for my survival when I look back at that time.

The same could be said here. The things that sound harsh and humiliating could be the very things you need to survive infidelity. Once the chaos and dust settles, you will look back and say....yes, I needed that.

Good post, FRM. As neither a newbie or a veteran I find revisiting the newbie mindset and issues very helpful. Sometimes I learn from the vets. Sometimes from the newbies. And usually, in a tribute to this place, both.

And that includes WS's and BS's.

Maybe foggy AP yearnings piss me off so much because this place has ruined the ones I had. Damn SI !!!!!!!

Maybe foggy AP yearnings piss me off so much because this place has ruined the ones I had. Damn SI !!!!!!!

me too JD...me too

Well said as always, frm.

I wouls like to add that it's not just newbies who are liable to get hit with the 2x4s. "Vets" are not exempt. I got hit with one at 4 years out. And I needed that smack upside the head.

Short version. I had a coworker (NOT the AP) that I talked to about nonwork related things - spouses, kids, grandkids, etc. I found myself looking forward to talking to him, especially about grandkids. Then one day, out of the blue, he says "Morning, beautiful" to me. That bothered me. Good, right? BUT the old wayward thinking started slipping in. I posted here, recounting what I was thinking and feeling (that post prompted a talk with my H as well). And the justifications started creeping in. But I'm a FWS, I know where this could lead, I can keep it "friendly". I tried that on the vets here and they called me on it. I stepped back, *really* looked at what I was doing... and grabbed the hands and hauled myself off the slope. They were right, I was slipping. No, it shouldn't have gone even that far but it didn't go *nearly* as far as it could have. Because the vets here swung those 2x4s.

[This message edited by Clarrissa at 6:30 PM, January 13th (Monday)]

Clarissa, you just reminded me of something similar that happened not too long ago. An unknown person FB friend requested me and I asked him how he knew me. The question came up of why I didn't just ignore. We had a mutual friend so I didn't think anything of it, but those honest and direct posts made me realize the step backwards I had taken with my wayward thinking.

The members here will tell it like it is, that's for sure. But it's good because it really helps you look in the mirror.

As WarpSpeed said on Unagie's t/j of this thread - we "listened with good intent". We *know* why the WS call us out - we've done it ourselves and with the same intent. What I really remember about that post isn't the 2x4s, it was my H came in just after I hit submit and asked about it. That led to our talk. I was honest with him, told him what was going on, even admitting I found this coworker attractive. I told him of the compliment and how it bothered me. He told me he saw my reaction as a *good* thing. My boundaries were firming up. But it was the 2x4s that really got me to look and as I said, I grabbed the hands and pulled myself off the slope, a bit disgusted that it had gotten even that far but greatful it hadn't gone farther. I was reminded that even at 4 years out, I still needed to be vigilant.

. I was reminded that even at 4 years out, I still needed to be vigilant.

Exactly. That was key for me.