SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi there. I’m going to go against the grain a little here. But first let me say that it took tremendous courage to confess. That was a big step, and a scary one I’m sure. Good for you for finding the strength for that. What I’m about to say I say for your knowledge and hopefully your marriage. It is NOT a criticism.

Do you have a right to set ground rules? Yes, absolutely. Anyone is. But is now the time to ‘set rules’? Your H is still reeling from learning of something you’ve had nearly a year to process, find the ‘why’ to, work through it and gain perspective. He’s had less than 3 weeks. There is a very strong possibility that if you mention ‘rules’ or ‘conditions’ or any other constricting action, it will be met with tremendous resentment, probably some name calling, and anger. BSs are basically walking time bombs for many months after DDay. Your H is probably still wrapping his head around the whole thing, and isn’t in a great position to be doing anything that may be life altering. It’s a very difficult time. He’s probably not ready to hear what you think will make the marriage better.

Now, this does not mean what you say (or would say) is wrong. It’s his ability to hear it that is questionable. And yes, unfortunately, it is the source, not the message.

How you word things right now is really the key to having the message met receptively, or with hostility. If you say ‘rules’ he will immediately think ‘oh, NOW you care about the rules, and you’re going to tell ME how to act for a good marriage???’ Again – this doesn’t’ mean you’re wrong. It’s just a very trying time in his life right now.

Is there anyone that both of you get along with, that he respects, that could perhaps speak to him? Or MC? Or would he come here and just read some of the BS postings?

If not, the wording you choose can make or break a thought. Here are two potential wordings:

1) I don’t think you should be hanging around (friend). He has cheated in the past, and he is not a great influence. He’s not someone I’m comfortable with you being around.

2) I know you want to go and get away from this. I’m truly sorry I hurt you. If you do need someone to talk to, I understand completely. I hope it’s someone that will help you and be a positive influence, and not someone that will think a night on the town will solve all of our problems. I know I messed up, bad, and I’m trying to fix it. I’m just hoping we can work through this without adding more to the pile I dragged in here.

Do you see the difference? One is just a ‘rule’, and one is helping him to conclude what is in his best interest.

I’m sorry – I really am. I can read your posts and see the work you’ve done. It’s time now for your H to start processing this, and it will take him time to adjust to this new reality. I do hope I haven’t offended you. I certainly did not intend to do so.

A few things in no particular order as this and another post have taken me out of partial lurker status:

1. As a WS you are still a human being with boundaries and emotions. You had an A and are trying to do the work. In doing the work and reading here you are realizing that a lot more goes into infidelity then just the act of sex. There may be emotion involved, premeditation and friends of marriage. All these and more are factors to consider. Your BH no longer feels these are factors he must take into consideration and that is his choice. You can absolutely set boundaries in a calm and rational way. What he chooses to do from that point is his choice and how you react will be yours.

2.

I disagree that it's not a consequence of his wife's infidelity. DC5 wouldn't be in this position had his wife not cheated. He would still be very much married, not only physically but emotionally as well. It may not fit into a predefined category, but it's an affair that exists only because of his wife's A.

Going by this logic every action and choice can be justified by going back far enough you know. Perhaps that sounds ridiculous but when you start to justify choices like cheating or an A, emotionally and physically devastating choices, then honestly you can justify anything right? If I bullied someone, got them angry, made them cry everyday (mental abuse) and they made the choice instead of getting away from me, ignoring me or reporting me to stab me in the heart, well that person will now be tried for murder. They might get off, they might be told they were justified but that person will forever have the stain on their hands of taking someone's life. Yes DC5's wife cheated on him, he felt hurt, betrayed and devastated as she did something truly horrible. Now instead of leaving he chose to have several ONS's and now has an active girlfriend all while playacting with his wife allowing her to believe that they are in reconciliation and that they are rebuilding. So now when he presents divorce papers in a year, he gets to devastate her with divorce AND the fact that he's been sleeping with other women. I wonder if in this acting he is doing if he still sleeps with her, not to mention they have a son just starting college who now gets to know their parents are divorcing because mom cheated on dad and then dad let mom believe they were rebuilding when in reality dad was cheating on mom now too and all because dad wanted to make sure he was ok. So with her actions she destroyed who she was and in one year he will destroy what she has been able to rebuild but hey it's all her fault right?

3. DC5, I am wondering are you still sleeping with your W? Does your girlfriend know your married? If she doesn't how do you think she will react if she finds out? If she does then how do you think you will survive with her when she is already knowingly sleeping with a married man? Any woman with self respect and respect for relationships would absolutely refuse to be with a man who is married and allowing his wife to think all is well while he plans to divorce her. How in the world she feels safe with a cheater who shows no remorse and plans to utterly destroy someone with such calm is beyond me. I'm not sure why you're here if this is truly ow you feel but I hope you stick around and learn even a little something. I am so sorry you're W's affair has destroyed you on so many levels but you are choosing to be this person with no respect for yourself and others. That choice is on you, not her.

Thank you to everyone who gave such supportive and helpful posts on this thread. Don't worry painfulpast, you can't offend me, I decided to post here because I knew I'd get helpful (and hard) advice from the members

In the end, he asked me how my night was and what I did. I told him I watched tv with the kids and then kind of freaked out. He asked what I meant and I showed him what I wrote. He knew I had been on this site (I sent him the link and encouraged him to come here too!) so he's been lurking around anyway. We didn't really talk about it aside what he and his friend did. I don't want to talk to him about my fears and sadness right now. He needs all the support, which is why I turned here. But I wanted him to know that I thought about these things because, 1. I think it's good he knows that when he's not around, I think about him constantly. That's not how it always was. 2. And even though I don't want sympathy from him, I want him to know that this hard for me too. That he's not suffering while I am living this happy go lucky life. I'm happy that I shared it with him, I think it was a good thing.

I also find it kind of ironic that another consequence of my A is that I now am fearful that I can't trust him. Does that make sense? He's never done anything to deserve anything less than my 100% trust in him. I'm the one who was deceitful and dishonest and now every time he leaves the house I wonder if he's out looking for someone to make him feel better. The things you don't think about when you decide to step outside your marriage!

[This message edited by CantBeUndone at 3:55 PM, January 27th (Monday)]

Hmm, didn't mean to pick that icon on my previous post. I'm not feeling like whatever that icon is supposed to look like.

Well its done I called her ended it and it went very good we both left it on a good note. It felt right in a way kind off. So I am no longer in a relationship on the side. So I am a FWH I think I dont know.

Unaugie Ill answer your questions.

1. No I am not having sex with my wife I cant I tried 3 times the first year and each time was horrible the first I had a panic attack before it happened the second I had ED the third I cried during and she stop it. She says when Im ready we can but I dont want to.

2. My now ex did know I was married but she knew about everything she was my support during my dark time then she just all of a sudden just went for it. I didnt expect it but I wasnt opposed.

3. Doesnt matter shes my ex now and I never cheated on her so.

4. When I divorce my wife I am not going mention any of my indiscretions I just going to just end it thats it. No ones is going to know and my sons are not going know about my wifes affair or mine thats not their business.

Dontcare5...

Please start your own thread in this forum.

Everyone else...

Please to t/jing this thread and continue to support the original author.

Going by this logic every action and choice can be justified by going back far enough you know.

No - just direct correlation

Perhaps that sounds ridiculous but when you start to justify choices like cheating or an A, emotionally and physically devastating choices, then honestly you can justify anything right? If I bullied someone, got them angry, made them cry everyday (mental abuse) and they made the choice instead of getting away from me, ignoring me or reporting me to stab me in the heart, well that person will now be tried for murder. They might get off, they might be told they were justified but that person will forever have the stain on their hands of taking someone's life.

And I said that it was cheating, absolutely, just as what you wrote is murder. I said that I understood, and that his cheating was a direct result of hers. I didn't say he was right in doing it, or anything else. He would not be acting as if his marriage were dead if his wife hadn't, in his eyes, killed it.

Yes DC5's wife cheated on him, he felt hurt, betrayed and devastated as she did something truly horrible. Now instead of leaving he chose to have several ONS's and now has an active girlfriend all while playacting with his wife allowing her to believe that they are in reconciliation and that they are rebuilding. So now when he presents divorce papers in a year, he gets to devastate her with divorce AND the fact that he's been sleeping with other women. I wonder if in this acting he is doing if he still sleeps with her, not to mention they have a son just starting college who now gets to know their parents are divorcing because mom cheated on dad and then dad let mom believe they were rebuilding when in reality dad was cheating on mom now too and all because dad wanted to make sure he was ok. So with her actions she destroyed who she was and in one year he will destroy what she has been able to rebuild but hey it's all her fault right?

Again - I said I understood his feelings. I didn't say she deserved anything, or that he was right. I said I understood.

"I guess my question, am I allowed to set any ground rules or really ask for anything from my BS right now? Has anyone's BS had a retaliatory A and had the marriage still work out? "

I'm new here and not the party that cheated so don't know if I can post here.

Maybe I should read a bit more, but I don't understand this at all. So if someone gets cheated on the response for some is to cheat "back"? Why? I'm not being a smart ass, I just seriously don't get that.

I can understand leaving, ending the relationship, oh boy can I understand that, especially right now. But go have an affair? For what purpose?

Maybe I'm too new to this but the "rules" and "conditions" thing makes no sense to me either. Aren't we all adults? Doesn't everyone know the "rules" or agreement? If not, how does "setting them" fix that?

I don't understand how your choices in any way green light his or why you'd even consider they do.

I think I need to just shut up. Maybe confusion is far too much a deal with me because none of this makes any sense to me at all, since several members say they get this, guess I'm not thinking clearly. Not a surprise.

Unagie

Going by this logic every action and choice can be justified by going back far enough you know. Perhaps that sounds ridiculous but when you start to justify choices like cheating or an A, emotionally and physically devastating choices, then honestly you can justify anything right?

You have this wrong I think. There is no justification of DC5 A. However, it started because of his WW A. No justification of the A itself but it would never have happened if the WW didn't have an A. So in that regard what was stated is true. I Think it is an important distiction to make, it doesn't justify the A though.

"A itself but it would never have happened if the WW didn't have an A"

What? So what did I do to cause an affair? Isn't that the same logic? The affair would never have happened if ...

That makes no sense. If someone makes a poor choice the weakness was there. Just because the stars lined up to the left of Venus instead of the right doesn't mean anything.

My husband may have been feeling bad about himself but the choice to cheat was based on something that was in him. If he doesn't fix it who knows when the stars will line up in a way not to his liking again.

If someone no longer cares about someone they should still care about themselves. How does one date when they're married? I'm trying to wrap my head around that concept. It doesn't matter who drew first blood, who the hell dates when they're married?

Free pass? Absolutely not. Adults own their behavior and accept that they cannot control other's behavior.

We all find ourselves in a pile of crap at times in our lives. It's entirely up to us if we want to wallow in it.

chetristezza...

You have a PM.

CBD:

You have no right to restrict your BH's sources of support or advice to only those sources which further your own personal agenda or advocate for only your desired outcome in this situation. I think your BH is entitled to entertain as many varied points-of-view as possible before deciding on a course of action.

I also think that you are not in a valid position to require a standard of behavior from your BH that you do not maintain yourself and did not provide to him previously.

Good Luck.

I pulled two quotes out because I think they are very relevant to the original question.

Maybe I'm too new to this but the "rules" and "conditions" thing makes no sense to me either. Aren't we all adults? Doesn't everyone know the "rules" or agreement? If not, how does "setting them" fix that?

I think that's oversimplifying what some of us are saying. It is not about CantBeUndone saying to her WH "You can't have an affair. You can't spend time with your friend." It is about setting boundaries for herself and what she can live with, and communicating that boundary to her BH and telling him what her needs are. Part of the wayward mentality is about having too few boundaries. Defining what hers are is a good step. If she doesn't tell him that it is crucial to her that he not throw gasoline on the fire by having a revenge affair, and he goes out and does it, that's a breeding ground for resentment.

I also think that you are not in a valid position to require a standard of behavior from your BH that you do not maintain yourself and did not provide to him previously.I also think that you are not in a valid position to require a standard of behavior from your BH that you do not maintain yourself and did not provide to him previously.

I think we are all here because at least one party in the relationship did not live up to the standards of behavior that were expected. How do you change that if not by communicating?

I'm happy that I shared it with him, I think it was a good thing.

I think so, too. To reconcile, BSs have to be all kinds of vulnerable. You told your BH something that demonstrates your vulnerability, too. It will pay off, I'm sure.

I also think that you are not in a valid position to require a standard of behavior from your BH that you do not maintain yourself and did not provide to him previously.

So motod, you think RA's are a reasonable response to cheating because 'they did it first'.

Why is that?

CBU

You have every rite to be concerned about your BS's behaviour and who is influencing him.

Whether you can 'call him out' on it, is going to be a matter of delicacy.

However you do it, it's going to be seen as hypocrital.

Perhaps you have a family member or a close mutual friend who can intercede on your behalf?

***Posting as a Member***

CantBeUndone - You have a right to your feelings. No one should dismiss them.

Please take my words with a grain of salt. I am speaking from my point of view. Let's rewind time. Then replay it from dday, through false R, and in true R. I would expect my WS to be highly uncomfortable (huge understatement) and worried if I was trying to R with him, but spending time with someone who is not a friend of our then relationship.

The work you are doing, is what he didn't do. That is what led to me ending R. Not the actual A. You confessed, are working on yourself and R, and lay it all out here. That is not easy. I wish my XWS had your courage & strength to open up. Sending you hope for a brighter tomorrow.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:46 AM, January 28th (Tuesday)]

CantBeUndone,

I'm a BH, just like you husband. And we are together since HS, each other first, etc. My wife had an A last winter, ended it and started IC afterwards, just like you. However, she haven't told me like you did, I discovered it myself. You have a lot of courage.

he's repeatedly said that he deeply regrets not cheating on me when he's had opportunities over the years and that right now he just wants to go out and hook up with whoever he wants.

I said the exact same thing to my wife after D-day. Actually, I wanted to hurt her, and I had so much pain that I only wanted to find an escape. Eventually, in MC, our counsellor asked me if I would betray myself by doing that, and if I would live well with this afterwards. I don't want anyone to live through that pain, so I won't do it to my wife or "create" another BH.

The saddest part to me is that I know if he were to do that, he would just feel worse and probably blame me for making him do that in the first place.

It's hard to tell him what to do after what you did, and it would make things worse (Telling him what to do). However, you could tell him how it will make you feel, that you love him, etc. Communication is the key here, you can't make it through without it.

I also suggest that he goes to IC, it helped me a lot dealing with this and not betraying myself.

Time will heal him, but you'll have to continue working hard, for a long period of time.

Hope things will get better for both of you.

"A itself but it would never have happened if the WW didn't have an A"

What? So what did I do to cause an affair? Isn't that the same logic? The affair would never have happened if ...

Nothing. I didn't say that the person was right to have a RA. What I said was, if a person is in a true RA, then that door was only opened by the first A in the marriage. I didn't blame anyone, and certainly not a BS. I'm sorry you're hurting. This is not a good experience, for anyone.

That's all. CBU, I hope you and your husband were able to come to an agreement on these topics.

The truth is everyone owns their actions. However to suggest that no matter what one does it shouldn't end in negative actions by those affected, I think is flawed logic.

Years after I was divorced, the question I asked myself was "did my emotional distance play a role? Is there anything I could have done to prevent her A? Is it my fault?"

Now while it makes me feel better to say no, and that she did it all on her own. My truth is YES to all, in part, to those questions. Not a popular view here, but that is MY truth. My issues opened her up to the A, her A opened me up to divorce. None was likely to happen without what happened before it.

Just my view on my situation.

[This message edited by 2yrsblind at 8:58 PM, January 28th (Tuesday)]

The last post sums up the back and forth on this post I believe.

We have been talking about excuses, while the OP thread was whether or not her marriage was, for her, null and void because of her affair and did it give her husband a free pass.

We can make up excuses for anything, and I believe that applies to both WS and BS, or whatever label we put onto people. At the end of the day, the OPs husband has agreed to stay married for the moment and that means he is still under his vows to the marriage. If he decides to have an RA, he owns it and it is wrong, simply and plainly. The OP has the right to tell him that seeing his "friend" is a dealbreaker and that an RA is a dealbreaker.

WS are not under any obligations, other than those that we choose to be held to for certain reasons, R being the biggest one I can think of. Most will deal with anger, hurt, pain and come out the other side with a spouse who is able to stop blaming and start healing, and provided the WS do the work that needs doing. Being a WS does not mean that one must put up with shit like an RA and smile and say thank you can I have another.

If your spouse has an RA OP, then he will have to provide you with everything that is being asked of you right now, betrayal is betrayal. That is if he wants to R. You can make the decision to divorce or work at it.

Ghandi said something about the eye for an eye thought process leaving the entire world blind.

I watched a video about non violent communication last night and the biggest thing I took away is that no one gets the right to make me do anything. I have choices, which sometimes are bad or worse, at the end of the day I always have a choice. A choice for an RA is just as wrong as choice for an affair. At the end of the day this is all about choices and the OP has choices just as her husband has choices.