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Maybe the idea of the word getting out will shake her grip on her fantasy world. Of course, I'll send it unless I get immediate remorse. To my family and hers. Mushroom cloud to follow.

I would strongly advise NOT showing her the letter prior to sending. This will only allow her to do damage control.

Here again you are trying to "show" her why she should stay and show her what the consequences could or might be....this tactic falls short because nothing really "happens". And by you TELLING her about the letter prior to sending, you take the sting out of result.

Just sent it. Stop talking and start doing.

I would strongly advise NOT showing her the letter prior to sending. This will only allow her to do damage control.

Here again you are trying to "show" her why she should stay and show her what the consequences could or might be....this tactic falls short because nothing really "happens". And by you TELLING her about the letter prior to sending, you take the sting out of result.

Just sent it. Stop talking and start doing.

This is absolutely not the reason I want to show it to her. I want to show it to her so she CAN'T do damage control because she will have already attested that everything in the letter is true. Otherwise she can do damage control and say it's all lies. I'll put it right in the letter that my WW has seen the letter and agrees that it is factual. This will give her no room to maneuver once the emails and calls begin.

SAF - I am sorry for your situation. It must be really hard to deal with this.

I am not sure why you are concerned whether she would lie or not after you share the situation with friends and family. Her acceptance in MC will not be binding for her. If she intends to lie and do "damage control", she would do it regardless of her acknowledgment of your letter accuracy. You are giving her the benefit of integrity, which I would doubt any WS in her situation deserves.

Also, I am not sure how a pregnant woman can do damage control. Her pregnancy, which you would not accept as yours, will soon be enough evidence of her situation.

Either ways, you are still concerned about her and how you would be perceived. While that is a normal concern, you need to let go of that outcome.

If you still want to send the letter, then I would suggest to have a draft ready in your email account with as many addressees on your selected list as you can, share a hard copy at MC with WW and then, once she acknowledges it, hit the send button on your mobile device. You may not reach everyone, but it is a good start and you can always follow up with hard copies to the people who do not use email.

However, I suspect that nothing good will come out of that.

If you are set and done with her, you should not care about what other people think of the situation. If have reached a decision, just inform the people you care them to know and then tell her that you are done with her. End of story. She can try to do damage control, but, again, I am not sure how much of it can be achieved with a pregnant silhouette.

SAF

Step back for a second on the letter. Do you really think that if she swears on a stack of Bibles on YouTube and in front of a packed stadium of people that she WON'T turn around and deny, deny, deny, deny once the shit hits the fan?

Seriously.

Maybe I am misinterpreting your text, but it seems to me you are saying that if you go over the contents of the letter with her, line by line, and she agrees with them, then she will NEVER EVER disavow them once her relatives and friends know about this. Is that a reasonable interpretation.

If so, I ask again, what makes you think she will act with integrity and honor NOW? Rule #1 of dealing with waywards - THEY LIE. They lie and they lie some more. They lie to you, to me, and most of all, to themselves. They can't face the truth, so they lie.

If you intend to expose - just do it. Coordinating with her will only screw you even more. She is not your ally nor does she care if you are hurt or destroyed. Handing her the tools (such as the contents of the letter) to hurt you even further is not a rational strategy.

You're assuming she will,

1. Act rationally.

2. Agree with your letter.

I going to go way out on a limb and predict she will do neither. It doesn't matter how truthful and accurate the letter is. She will turn your truthful letter into an Emotional Attack upon her. She will say it's biased against her and accuse you of turning her family against you.

Your truth simply is not her truth.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 6:07 PM, February 23rd (Sunday)]

I'm not sure I get it, then. I'm hearing that a WS will lie anyway. So why tell friends and family at all if all the lying WS is going to do is lie? What's the point? Clearly, telling family and friends must have some benefit or else it wouldn't be one of the recommended first actions. So if she lies to me before I send the letter or lies to her family after I send it, what's the difference? Liars always lie, right? Not trying to be snarky here. I'm really confused.

I don't expect her to act as my ally. I just want her to hear everything she has said and done, to have that laid out before her in an irrefutable way. She won't disagree with anything in the letter. It's based on fact, on what she has said to me, what she has said to the MC in my presence, what she has written to me, etc. I want her to see the letter so she can hear how ridiculous and irrational it sounds. Of course she could do some damage control. She'd do it after the email anyway. With his baby in her belly it's not as if people are going to see things her way. I don't see the downside to telling her: "This is what you have done to me and our children. Our families have a right to know what is going on." Here's the thing - she doesn't really comprehend what she has done. There have been so many little comments and messages that defy any sort of logic.

Please don't think I want to do this to win her back. The letter isn't a threat. I want to do this so maybe she can help herself. She badly needs IC but refuses to see that. Maybe this will help, especially if done in the presence of our MC. He has already read the letter and recommended that I share it with her.

STOP Bargaining. You are trying to bargain with her. Be reasonable with her. Nice her into seeing your side. You may give her crystal clear truth in razor sharp language, and all she hears is blah blah blah.

Stop negotiating with the terrorist. Your W is deep in fog-land, she is a pod person version of herself, she is both incapable and unwilling to engage in reality, so the words are going to do precious little good. In fact they could provide her with a heads up for what her excuses, justification, countermeasures could be.

Taking action is not doomsday to your M. Frankly, your W's actions were the doomsday and it has already occurred. It is over. She has re-defined your old relationship to what you have right now. She doesn't have to go NC with her OM, she has her comfy house, her comfy life. Just what she always wanted. Before you knew of her A, she had all this too, but now she has it without all the hassle of worrying about being caught and wondering what the consequences might be. She now sees the consequences.......which seem not too uncomfortable for her.

Most cheaters want both their AP and their spouse, I really believe this. If they didn't, why hide the A? Why not be open about it, D, or leave at least? Cuz they are cake-eaters and want BOTH.

Show her she cannot have both.

Perhaps once you take action, she will perform her badly needed cranial rectal extraction. Perhaps not. It really does not matter. The M you had IS gone. The only hope you have to have a healthy M with her ever is for both of you to approach it as healthy people. You can't make a healthy M without 2 healthy people. This current situation is healthy for neither of you. Put on your own oxygen mask first. Take care of yourself and your kiddos. She's a grown-up(ish), let her deal with her consequences. It truly is the best thing for her, you, your M and your boys and your family.

Quit negotiating. Start doing. FOR YOU.

Your letter may be the best letter ever written and the most factual. But it doesn't matter.

She could go to your friends and family and tell them that she has been having an affair and that she IS pregnant by OM. But she could also tell them that you have been an abusive husband. And you wrote this letter as a threat. You can't even begin to imagine lies a WW is capable of telling.

I see this all blowing up in your face. You cannot Bargain or negotiate with her. All you're doing is telling the "enemy" your game plan.

this is going to sound harsh, but - well, I cannot think of a different way to ask..

You say you are fairly certain she is carrying OM's child, and OM is a different race. So how the hell is she going to come up with any lie that can untrump the elephant in the room? Like there is some ok, good, reasonable reason that she gave birth to a bi-racial baby when her H is of her same race?

Quit worrying about her reaction and DO what you need to do. How she reacts to that will make it crystal clear whether she is worth any more of your effort or attention.

Please don't think I want to do this to win her back. The letter isn't a threat. I want to do this so maybe she can help herself.

I know you're in a terrible spot. I know this is gut wrenching. I'm sorry.

With that said, let me just be direct, if not blunt.

SAF, you're out-clevering yourself here. Your letter is a form of emotional extortion, isn't it? Do what I say, or else.

You don't need her meaningless agreement to the facts of your letter in for it to have impact and ring true to those who read it.

You're trying to bargain, as others have said. It's not working.

You're trying to control. It's not working.

You're trying to rescue her (the purpose of the letter is to help her?!! ). It's not working because she doesn't want to be rescued.

You're trying to nice her back. "I will raise the OC as our own, and we will have your lover over for Thanksgiving dinner, blah, blah." It's not working.

You're feeling guilty for having been absent in the marriage for the past two years and now you're trying to save the day with your virtue and grand plans. Unfortunately, none of it is working.

Time for a new plan.

[This message edited by nomistakeaboutit at 8:55 PM, February 23rd (Sunday)]

Why tell your story first, without warning WW?

Because the first person out of the gate with the story sets the tone for the big revelation. 'He who speaks first speaks the truth.'

^^^^^ That, exactly! ^^^^^

SF, it's like your making this crazy Rube Goldberg relationship machine to figure out how to save your marraige. So many unecessary "consideration" you are inserting to try and come up with a grand solution.

It's simple. Look out for:

1) Yourself first

2) When you get strong enough, put your kids in the life boat with you.

3) When your WW gets her head out of her ass and wakes up and BEGS to R, then give her one of the oars.

4) That is all. Fvck the OM. Seriously. He can fend for his own self. He's the torpedo that your WW launched that sank your marraige ship!

I don't expect her to act as my ally. I just want her to hear everything she has said and done, to have that laid out before her in an irrefutable way. She won't disagree with anything in the letter

Bottom line is that *her* reality is probably much different than *your* reality.

I wrote many fact-filled missives about my marriage -- and while I could *maybe* get stbx to agree that a lot of what I had written was true.....he ALWAYS had a *but* to insert which he decided discounted everything that I had written about.

IMO, you should write the letter which is full of *your* truth and just send the thing out to whomever you wish it to go to without involving your WW. She'll read it and either jump on her pity pot about what a terrible person she is OR she will pick that sucker apart line by line. OR she will outwardly agree with it, but seethe on the inside about it.

Hi SAF,

I've been following your posts for quite some time now. You seem like a stand up guy who is trying his best to make everything work, and make sure that you and your kids come out of this in the best way possible.

I honestly think that you're going to figure things out on your own...in your own time. People have given a lot of advice, but ultimately its your life and you're the one who has to live it. You alone know what you can handle.

Life throws us curve balls and it seems like you have more than your share right now. Stay strong. Take care of yourself and your kids.

Thanks, Living. I'm just doing my best. I don't pretend to know all the answers. There appear to be lots of steadfast 'rules' I am violating. I just need to do me...I don't know how to do anything else.

Just give the letter to her SAF. Then give a copy to her family. Enough is enough.

I wrote a 10 page letter to my ex H a couple of weeks after D-day. It wasn't abusive but it said everything I wanted to say and more. I also sent a copy to my mother and sisters - it devastated them but at least they knew what had been going on in my marriage. I never did send a copy to his mother or the rest of his family but I wish I had now. His reaction? He just said "you're letter was good". As if I was looking for a grade or something rather than to make sense of the bomb he had thrown at me and my kids.

Anyway, bottom line is that if you are going to write a letter it should be for you rather than her. The outcome of all this is not going to be pretty but whichever way the dice fall you will feel better looking back knowing you laid out the truth as you know it. She is in denial because she has been given the luxury to be so due to the safety net she assumes she has. You need to pull the rug from under her feet HARD even though it must be torture for you.

Hugs

EJ

A couple of things you need to understand before you send any such letter to anyone:

1.) She is going to lie and twist things around to her family and friends--she is not likely to just lie back and take it, no matter how truthful and accurate it is.

2.) It is not going to make her "wake up" and realize what she has done.

3.) Her family may initially support you, but be prepared for them to eventually discard that support and rally to her. As close as you may have been, they are going to support their blood, in most cases. Not you.

4.) It will change very little, if anything.

5.) I would add the OM's family to the list. If you're going to expose, expose ALL the way.

If all of this is acceptable to you, go ahead and send the letter via email right before your MC session. Then give it to her in MC. Provided, of course, that she goes.

Just be prepared that this will likely NOT have any effect on her at all. It might make things much worse--it wouldn't hurt to be prepared to file for divorce before she goes to an attorney and alleges abuse.

Before you tell us all that she WOULDN'T do that, we have seen it MANY times here. It typically ends up with the betrayed husband led out of his home in handcuffs. Trust us and be prepared. VERY prepared.

Cat

Thanks, Living. I'm just doing my best. I don't pretend to know all the answers. There appear to be lots of steadfast 'rules' I am violating. I just need to do me...I don't know how to do anything else.

Yes, you're being you. You're coming to a place where people have BTDT, telling your story and asking for input.

In a post you made awhile back, you made reference to doing things " not just according to what is said on some web site.", or words o that effect. You do realize, right, that this isn't just a web site. It is a place where people have lived the horror of infidelity....and have survived to talk about it Yes, this site has lots of advice and some general guidelines for how to move through various situations in the aftermath of a betrayal. How, exactly, do you think all of the advice on this web site came to be? How is it that so many people say the same thing here? Why? ....just a bunch of followers here that enjoy jumping in a band wagon?

Listen and consider what is said here. Consider it seriously and with an open mind. Dismiss it at your own peril. Don't cop out and say you're just being you. Good luck.

Just be prepared that this will likely NOT have any effect on her at all. It might make things much worse--it wouldn't hurt to be prepared to file for divorce before she goes to an attorney and alleges abuse.

Before you tell us all that she WOULDN'T do that, we have seen it MANY times here. It typically ends up with the betrayed husband led out of his home in handcuffs. Trust us and be prepared. VERY prepared.

Wait, so I shouldn't inform friends and family because I might be arrested? I thought one of the rules was to expose, expose, expose. Are the police less likely to follow up on an accusation of abuse if I file for divorce?

You're missing the point. The point is that you don't know her any more. She will do things you never thought possible.

Yes, expose her. There is no need to warm here first.

The only reason so many of us are saying the same things is that we have lived it, and watched it play out the same way a million times on the forum.

The most likely result of your heartfelt letter is that she will think you are an asshole for exposing her, then rush to tell friends and family how you mistreated her for years.