SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Listen to hathnofury and read everything that she suggests. She has experienced much and written extensively on SI, with great authority and clarity, on this topic. You could not get better guidance than hers.

((ClearEyes12))

Thank you for bumping. That thread is extremely helpful.

Would you guys mind coaching me through this a little more?

What do I do with the questions I still have? Every day a new detail comes to mind that doesn't fit the puzzle he's laid out. I've been just asking them. As part of the 180, should I stop doing that? Write them down and ask them later?

I am the most honest person. I feel like what I'm doing is being dishonest – since posting here I've wanted to share with him the things I've learned, but the thread you bumped says not to, for a long while.

Also, do I tell him about the STD testing?

He wants to do a mini-vacation with our kids this weekend. Just an overnight hotel stay for all of us at an indoor waterpark. We do this quite frequently but since Dday he's been pushing this. I had agreed, but I am still very deep in the Fog. Now I'm wondering if this is a bad idea.

He has a trip planned for the end of the month. I have set these boundaries:

Dealbreakers:

Stripclubs, strippers, anything involving other women.

Lying, hiding, deleting, covering up, private browsers, changing passwords.

Total access to email, banks accounts, texts, phone calls, google searches, internet history, porn viewed, maps searched

I have added these:

No cash transactions (nothing over $20 bucks)

No overnight stays with the exception of the UP trip

Picture check ins

Is this good? He will be gone with friends for 3 days. It is an annual trip. He swore up and down that there are no strip clubs there. I googled and found 8 in the same location that he has stayed in the past. He said he never saw them and wouldn't go in them and will call me from the outside while his friends are inside. What's to stop him from going in after he calls me? How can I validate this?

The most helpful thing I have realized today is that I need to take time. I don't need to know everything right now. I already know I am hurt by just the things I have found out. He has already lied to me. I don't need to find out immediately how much more he has lied. I am missing admissions about actual sex acts with another person, but I should be operating on the assumption that there have been. I can take my time to find out. I have phone records from the past two months coming. I am buying a subscription to web site to track numbers (instead of me calling each and every number – it doesn't help).

His remorse and sadness get to me. I am so weak. I love him so much, he is literally my best friend.

Hi ClearEyes,

I would let him take the kids to the waterpark without you. I would stay home and do something nice for myself.

As far as his annual trip, sounds like his friends are not friends of the marriage. You know how they tell an alcoholic to only have sober friends? Your H needs to have friends who do not do strip clubs. My opinion. If strip clubs are a deal breaker, then so are friends who go to strip clubs. Does that make sense?

I like your list of dealbreakers. What will happen if he violates one or more of them? The thing about dealbreakers is that we must be prepared to enforce a violation. My H knew me very well, knew I was not prepared to enforce the dealbreaker, so he continued to carry on with OW. Only when I was seriously DONE, did he go no contact with OW. I had met with an attorney and was ready to walk away.

The fact that your H is focusing on all the family stuff is for HIMSELF once more. He wants to make sure that you will not leave him. He thinks he can eat cake, continue his disgusting behavior and still have an awesome wife and intact family life. I would blow that sucker out of the water, let him get a taste of being a weekend dad. Do NOT give him the reassurance of your company on the waterpark trip. Pull out the 180 and use it to start healing.

Praying for you. Take care.

E

Oh, where to begin. He says there are no strip clubs, wait there are but he's never been, wait if his buddies go he won't. Ayiyiyi. Gaslight much?

You want my honest opinion? He shouldn't go on any trips without you. ESPECIALLY boys only trips. Not on the heels of this. You will go bonkers. And if my suspicions are correct, it will only lead to more heartache. If he gives you any resistance on this at all, you have your answer. That is not remorse. I know you think you see remorse, but what you are seeing is regret. It will be clearer much later on. The only way I would see a benefit from him taking a trip like that is if you were planning on a PI to document legitimate proof for D.

As to whether you tell about the STD testing. I wouldn't. Because right now, it is just more opportunity for him to fill you with doubt. And a clean test does not mean he has been faithful. Believe it or not, he could have been with hundreds of prostitutes and anon encounters and you can be lucky enough to still be clean. I know this from experience. You need to go and get the tests, and get them again in six months, even if you don't have sex with him ever again.

Edith is absolutely right on all counts. He should not be with people who do not support the marriage now. He is suggesting the waterpark for himself, not you or your kiddos. He needs to see some hard consequences of his actions. And you need to focus entirely on yourself and what YOU need right now. He's not going to do anything YOU need for a long time. Just enough to make him feel justified. YOU take care of YOU.

Ok, I apologize as I may sound disjointed in my replies here. I am trying to do too many things at once. But I have to say this. I am SOOOO pissed for you right now. Here you have a man that has been busted for spending untold amounts of money on strippers and who knows what else, yet he feels entitled to go on a boys-only trip? I call bullshit. I would only let him go if you want his sorry ass out of your sight, AND you are getting a PI to trail him and document his philanderings.

I am so sorry. You deserve so much better than this. And you are hurting so badly it is tainting your clarity of vision. Here is a tip that can help. You are a mom. Imagine this was a man doing this to your daughter. What would you want her to do? To expect? What would you want the man to be doing for your daughter right now? What would you tell her? Then hold yourself to the same standard.

Hang in there hon. Get you some appropriate IC to guide you through this. I know you don't have enough info to tell if he's SA, and frankly it doesn't matter if he is or not. The impact of his actions on you as a spouse are the same. Traumatic as they come, and the hits will keep on coming. Go get you a CSAT therapist that helps spouses of SAs right now. Even if you found one today, it might take a month or more to get an appointment.

Ok, I apologize as I may sound disjointed in my replies here. I am trying to do too many things at once. But I have to say this. I am SOOOO pissed for you right now. Here you have a man that has been busted for spending untold amounts of money on strippers and who knows what else, yet he feels entitled to go on a boys-only trip? I call bullshit. I would only let him go if you want his sorry ass out of your sight, AND you are getting a PI to trail him and document his philanderings.

I am so sorry. You deserve so much better than this. And you are hurting so badly it is tainting your clarity of vision. Here is a tip that can help. You are a mom. Imagine this was a man doing this to your daughter. What would you want her to do? To expect? What would you want the man to be doing for your daughter right now? What would you tell her? Then hold yourself to the same standard.

Hang in there hon. Get you some appropriate IC to guide you through this. I know you don't have enough info to tell if he's SA, and frankly it doesn't matter if he is or not. The impact of his actions on you as a spouse are the same. Traumatic as they come, and the hits will keep on coming. Go get you a CSAT therapist that helps spouses of SAs right now. Even if you found one today, it might take a month or more to get an appointment.

Expect anything and everything. Trust your gut.

When my wife confessed it was all TT. Later on most if not all of my worse fears had cone true. It was 100 times worse than what she said.

Please protect yourself and be ready.

Sorry. Hugs.

I'll just second what hath said. I've been married 36 years and never saw this coming, really. It's traumatic on many levels so please do try to find a CSAT. Thing is, he is going to be able to convince you of all of these quirky "coincidences" because you want to believe it. To not believe it is unbearable.

He can tell you it won't happen again but, it will. If he is SA (and he certainly shows the signs) he won't be able to stop. Even if he wants to and know that it will bring terrible consequences he can't just stop. It is truly an addiction. Don't tell him anything about how you find out. It will only enable him so that he can hide better. This is not your best friend right now. It looks like him but, he is not in there. He is only looking out for himself so, as hard as it is, you can not trust him to have your back. You just can't. I can't tell you when but, I can tell you with all certainty that he will do it again so, get your guard up and protect yourself.

This family vacation is just his guilt playing on him. You can install a key logger which would give you a heads up next time he goes trolling or you can put a voice activated recorder in his car to record any conversations he is having while driving.

Craigslist was my H's main source of supply for the last few years. Go have a look at the casual encounters site. It's just so available. I never had a reason to look and, frankly, never knew it existed until my world exploded last year. I don't know how I missed it.

Keep posting and I promise you this. The information and support you will receive is GOLDEN. Take advantage of those here who have fought this battle and have the battle plan strategy. It's priceless!

Honey, I know you feel like he is your best friend. I know you love him. But, he is not your friend at all. He is your enemy right now. He is driving you crazy, he is entitled, he is risk-seeking, he lies through his teeth, he has no empathy...that is all just to start with!!! Please please step back and see this. I know it hurts to have your faith in someone ripped away. It's an awful thing to experience. But you will be so much stronger and secure once you stop falling for his little remorse and sadness act. You deserve so much more. I agree with the other advice to not go on this weekend with your kids and him--he needs to see that he can't just pretend everything is okay.

((((Hugs))))

Ok. Wow. This guy is capital T-rouble.

There is no true remorse in this situation yet. It *may* come later, and it may not. Right now your WH is in *deflect & misdirect* mode. His mode of *coping* is emotionally toxic to you. The guy is swimming in so much shit right now that I'm surprised he's still able to draw breath.

Your discovery has just blown up his *secret* world.....and he's not likely to be happy about that. He keeps *love-bombing* you as a way to placate you and try to get things back to *normal* so that he can *carry on* with life as he knows it. But trust me, you do NOT want this life that he *knows*.

Re-read this statement you made about the *boys* trip (and I'm assuming that you recounted it correctly):

He swore up and down that there are no strip clubs there.

He said he never saw them and wouldn't go in them and will call me from the outside while his friends are inside.

He begins by denying that any strip clubs exist in that neck of the woods.

Then, when you prove him wrong, he *plays dumb*.

But THEN he fucks up and switches to *present* tense. Not only has he just done an *assumption* on you, but he has round-aboutly told you that they go to the strip clubs when they are up there.

(And the fact that he's trying to get you to believe that he's going to spend hours hanging out in the parking lot of a strip club while his buddies are inside is insulting and quite stupid.)

So. First order of business. He can keep *his* financial account, but you need to set it up so that YOU are the only one with online access (change the password to one that only you know so that he can't go in and change it when he gets *mad* at you and wants to act out). And then he has to account for every cent that he spends. If he takes out $200, then he needs to have receipts in hand and change in pocket that adds up to $200.

Second. He doesn't get to attend his *boy's trip*. Period. If he insists on going, then he needs to be ready to *bunk up* with one of those guys when he gets back because you will be seeing a L while he's gone.

Third. About the weekend trip he's proposing......this is a judgment call. The problem with *gaslighters* is that you will be told <something> that sounds plausible and that you want to believe and so you WILL believe it. Until your brain actually sifts through the info and processes it and THEN you'll find 10,000 holes in the explanation. During that processing time, life is *grand*....you're hugging/kissing on your spouse because you're feeling as if they are still your *partner* and then BAM! The realization that your spouse has just purposefully mis-directed you hits and life goes immediately to shit. It's a roller-coaster for you......but it's also really, really hard on your kids. One minute mom and dad are all lovey-dovey and then the next minute -- there are daggers flying out of their eyes at each other. Even if you and your WH don't actively argue and fight in front of the kids -- the tension is there and the kids have a very good *read* on the tone of the family.

As to the poly. If you are financially comfortable, then sure. Make him take a poly. The thing is, though, that I think that you have barely scratched the surface on your WH's misbehaviors and so a poly will have to be re-taken in the future. But a poly at this point in time will be a waste of your money, imo. You KNOW he's lying. A poly is only going to affirm that....it's not going to give you any details as to *what* he's lying about.

Nora mentioned a recent post about gaslighting. There has been a lot of gaslighting talk recently, so I'm not sure if this is the one she's referring to or not, but here's the link to it:

http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=521304

You've had excellent advice here...some I wish I had gotten when my family was in this place.

One thing that stands out clearly when you spend just a little time reading here on SI is that while everyone's story has differences of some sort, almost without fail, Wandering Spouses all play from the same game book and everyone giving you advice now has experienced some or all of it.

Logically, I understand that. But I still love him so much. I love our little life. I don't want to lost any part of it.

I am sorry to say this but if you don't 180 him hard, you will very likely lose everything you hold dear in regards to him.

He is not treating you I the same way you think of him. You still love him softly, sweetly, tenderly, passionately (I assume, from your tone) and you treat him like your best friend but he is not treating you like his. The 180 is for you...to help you catch a breath from all the roller coaster disaster infidelity causes. It allows you to withdraw in a healthy way and as any number of BS can attest, it can lead to your spouse pulling his head out of his ass long enough to realize how awful he's acting...but even if he doesn't, you will have a chance at thinking more clearly.

No chores for him.

No special anything...looks, touches, snuggles, hugs...not a damned thing.

He does not exist except where you cannot help it like financial decisions or child questions....but nothing loving or personal. No explaining.

No excuses.

Go call a lawyer.

Go to the doctor.

Find hobbies that don't involve him. Go to yoga or meditation. Book club or find a group of interest like people who do urban homesteading and get together to learn bee keeping or cheese making...whatever. My point is, fill your time with things you love or things you've never tried before. Do things, just you and your kids but make sure you schedule just you things as well.

Keep doing them.

If your best friend is still in there, he may come out and start deciding to make changes so you want to look at him again but if he doesn't or if you decide that you really prefer your life without him (it happens quite often!), you will have filled your life with things you love, new friends, fun times, learning and light. It can only bring you good.

If he starts suffering, do not cave the second his little lip starts to quiver.

You take care of you. Protect your assets and let him prove himself with ACTIONS. His words are lies.

I wish I had found SI back then and had the guidance I've read here. I naturally 180 but I cave to easily. I didn't always read the signs right because I was too hurt and too much in love...completely missing that I was the only one acting in love.

Anyways...please, please listen. You cannot love things right.

You can be wonderful every moment and he will keep on doing what he's doing because he has no reason to quit.

You can't fix this because you didn't ruin it but you can control you and that is a powerful thing in this darkness.

(((Hugs)))

Anyways...please, please listen. You cannot love things right.

You can be wonderful every moment and he will keep on doing what he's doing because he has no reason to quit.

You can't fix this because you didn't ruin it but you can control you and that is a powerful thing in this darkness.

This is such truth.

Ok, I've read over everything that has been said. Some things are dead on, some things are just a bit off, but I'm not discounting any advice at all because I need every ounce of it.

So my H and I are very intertwined. Close. We typically tell each other everything, every little detail. The current situation, excluded obviously.

We carpool together and usually are together every waking and sleeping moment except for work hours and work/fun trips.

So yesterday when I tried the 180 he knew instantly, the second I got in the car when he picked me up from work. I could tell it made him mad. I didn't know if I should tell him what I was doing or not... so it was really confusing for him. It felt AWFUL for me. I wish I could just tell him what's going on! But I am really taking the advice to heart, so I didn't let him in at all. I wasn't mean to him or even cold. Just... detached. It was hard for me.

It didn't take him long to become unhinged. He had a work problem blow up on him once we got home and he wasn't able to solve it. It's not good because we're both so close to losing our jobs because last week was total destruction - neither of us functioned at all or did anything right at work. ANYWAY, he started throwing things around in his office and having a little hissy fit. We got through dinner (I actually ate! It was all an act!) and then he went for a snowmobile ride. I know the loop that he goes on near our house and I wasn't at all worried. Felt good to get him out of the house. Less pressure.

I took a bath, he sent a text picture of where he was. I ignored it. When he got home I was cleaning up and getting ready for bed. He asked if I wanted to watch TV, I told him I was tired and going to bed. He tearfully told me he didn't think he could stay with me. He was shaking. I ignored him and went to bed. A few minutes later I heard him slam the door and take off on the snowmobile again. I was actually able to sleep. I don't know why it feels good to see him get riled.

This morning we ignored each other for the most part. After he left I installed a keylogger on his computer. I'm considering installing something on his phone as well.

Keeping up with the 180 is going to be so hard. Can anyone offer advice on this? It's not at all my nature.

Thanks!

Oh! He was also SO PISSED because I haven't been wearing my rings.

Agree with others...NO trips.

He will rant and rave and balk like an ass. DO NOT give in. I gave in to my H working one last time with the AP...I was absolutely sick during that time. I left him...Dear John letter and all. I just could not handle the fact that he still was putting himself and his self-image before me. It sent us back to Dday 1. If you let him go...you will worry all the time and it will add suspicion to everything again.

You can't trust him...Hell he can't even trust himself. It is time for him to make a choice.

I went through a phase where I didn't wear my rings either. Yeah...that usually pisses them off.

Good work...keeping pushing through and don't let him make you feel bad with the "I can't stay married to you bit." That is just his way of fishing for you to cave in to his needs and behavior.

You really can't love them out of this...they need to be scared shitless.

There is a reason why all the WS talk about not realizing what they have till they lose it.

SOOOO proud of you that you did that, I know what stage you are at and I know how hard this is to do. And please know....this IS the very hard part for a BS....because at the end of the day only WE can determine our fate with someone who is betraying us and disrespecting us. Its like an abused spouse...so many people tell you what to do but you don't or can't see it because for you it seems like "love".

So against the grain, walk thru the fire, even if it hurts, do what you know is the right thing if your own daughter was sitting there watching you. And keep doing it even it it goes against every grain in your body. Cuz thats they way change will happen.

I hope the best for you.

Typical man child temper tantrum. Self centered, selfish, arrogant, entitled, brats. Its manipulation to put the focus on him. It's all about ME ME ME! By ignoring him you are not following the script and its throwing him off and frustrating the hell out of him. I hope you can stay the course. Wait it out and see what he does next. I, for one, think the key logger will clear a lot up for you. Hang in there.

Good for you...the tantrums are the hardest...no wait...the love bombs are what would usually confuse the hell out of me. No wait, it was me very best friend derailing our life so he could "be himself".

No wait...

It's all freaking hard. You are doing great...keep focusing on you and your healing.

(((Hugs)))