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For 4 years now my WH’s ONS has been rug swept, he didn’t admit it until about a year down the line although I confronted him about it only the day after with proof which was a hotel receipt with room service for 2 on it, a shirt he hid in the back of the wardrobe instead of putting with the rest of his things in the wash basket, the shirt had lipstick on and reeked of perfume. All I go from him was that it wasn't what it seemed and if I couldn't move on and would carry on accusing him then there was no point in us being together. I'd just moved 350 miles to be with him, had no friends there and for some bizarre reason I agreed

When he admitted it (in passing in an argument a year later)it was more a “yes I did fuck up but it’s in the past and you need to move on”. Therefore I never got the truth, any details, have no idea how/where he met her. All I know is that before he left here that day he said he was going to a work conference and staying overnight in a hotel. How do I know she’s not a colleague? How do I know she’s not at any other work conferences he’s been to? Maybe there was no conference at all? I have no idea although I very much doubt there was a conference, so where did he meet her then? He works in a different country to where the ‘conference’ was although he does have an office there (with the only woman being an elderly ladyy). I just don't know.

Since the day after when I confronted him, as much as he wouldn’t admit it he did agree to never have overnight hotel stays on his own again (he had to break this one year later when he changed his position in the company meaning quite a lot of hotel overnight stays). Since then he’s contacted me at the end of each night. I have no reason to believe he’s done it again, but no reason to believe he hasn’t.

This has all caused me major trust issues, I’ve no idea what the reason was for him to have a ONS therefore I’ve no idea if the reason is still there. Every single day at some point I think about it, albeit only very briefly most days. I live dreading him telling me when the next time he’s to go away will be, I hate those days coming up to the hotel stay knowing that if he disappears overnight I’m done, it’s like I’m putting the marriage in the trust of someone who proved that he can’t be trusted. And I really would be done this time, or at least deal wth it 100 times differently. I wish I’d found SI at the time. Instead I've just been reading for the last couple of years!

Over the last year especially we’ve had serious marriage problems (not all down to the lack of trust, lots of other things going on too). His anger is unbelievable, he can explode at any minute with anything I might say/do. Lately I’ve barely dared say a word to him, not even about the weather. He twists things, turns everything around to it being my fault, he's a total control freak and his latest is that he takes responsibility for all finances, bills, money for clothes etc therefore I am responsible for anything else in the marriage! I’m pretty sure he’s a workaholic, works 20 hours a day sometimes and if he’s traveling he’ll sometimes go for 48 hours with no sleep, work all day, fly at night, work all day etc he’s got a very high pressure, high risk job. He says his life would be easier without me in it so that he could work more!

He’s been away for 4 weeks now, usually I would have gone with him but on the 1st Jan I decided that I’d had enough after a very tense Xmas where it was impossible to relax, I have so much resentment towards him now for so many things. I decided for the first time to stay here at home. I decided to do the 180 totally for myself, to try to detach, to not let him have so much control over my life and happiness. I’ve only replied to very urgent matters, finances/kids.

It seems that he’s now noticed and after saying some very cruel things to me has now done a full turn around and is asking if we can try to talk about the problems when he’s back. The problem I have is that if we DO manage to sit down and miraculously sort out all the marriage problems, I’m not actually sure if I want him anymore anyway? I no longer have any respect for him, 4 years of being lied to has caused so much damage to the way feel about him, and I'm just not sure anymore

Sorting the problems out would be great, but it wouldn’t give me the trust and take away all of the ONS stuff that goes around my head. Now that I’ve managed to detach a huge amount I find that I couldn’t care less if he has a ONS tonight even! I know that it could be that the resentment is burying my feelings for him and that realistically I'd probably be devastated but I like being in this place, I like that have peace of mind, not wondering if there really is a meeting that he’s going to etc or if he's lying to me.

So I guess what I’m asking is, if we meet up and can sort out the marriage problems (not ONS related) is it too late that I now demand all the things that I should have demanded 4 years ago, how would start to bring up something that happened so long ago and has barely been mentioned since?

Any advice appreciated!

Oh and anyone considering rug-sweeping, please DON'T, it never goes away, it's been a miserable 4 years (for me, not him!)

[This message edited by Toodevoted at 8:31 PM, February 9th (Sunday)]

I have a major fear of confronting him with anything because of his anger, he’s really aggressive and intimidating. I once tried to explain how I felt, how I needed the truth and he managed to twist it all and in the end yelled that I had no idea how hard it was for HIM because I didn’t trust him.

I found out that in the first 6 months we dated (LDR) he had other ONS’s too. I never confronted him at all over those. I was afraid of his reaction. I think I’m seriously co-dependant.

If I say anything he doesn’t like he loses it, explodes and then doesn’t speak for days and days. The isolation and loneliness of living in a place with someone who doesn’t speak a word to you is hard. Eventually he does but it’s never discussed. I find it hard to bring things up because we’re either not speaking at all or when we are I know that to rock the boat will mean another couple of weeks of not speaking.

I’ve let him walk all over me.

I asked him in November (when he was away) if he’d go to MC with me so we can at least learn how to communicate, he ignored my email. I made an appointment anyway, I asked him the day before if he was going with me the next day, I was ignored so I went on my own, got back, he never asked how it went so I didn’t mention it. Over Xmas I asked him to his face if he’d go to a second appointment with me. He blew up because I’d not told him that I’d BEEN to the first one (although I told him twice I was going). He then said it was obviously a waste of money because I’d been to one and he didn’t notice any improvement in the way I was with him (he complains I don’t show him affection, it’s difficult to when I’ve been told the day before that he regrets marrying me blah blah blah in one of his rages).

So many problems for us to overcome on top of the trust issues that I don’t know what to do anymore. I’d pretty much decided to file for a divorce or at least a legal separation until yesterday when he suddenly asked if we could talk and that he’d go to MC if that’s what I really wanted (although he added that he still doesn’t think that it will work)

I feel such an failure, I’m so week and no wonder he has no respect for me, even I don’t respect myself.

Sorry for the long posts, I've kept all this in for 4 years. I know that I have nowhere near the pain that those are in that have WS that have had affairs, but still, it all really hurts

You've been put through the wringer! When he is in a rage, it is likely that it is a deliberate rage for the purpose of controlling you. He wants you to be afraid to speak your mind for fear that you'll upset him. IOW, he's intimidating you to keep silent, or he's trying to, anyway.

I wasted far too many years with a man just like this. I know how it feels. I used to think, fine, he wants silence, silence is bliss. When he decides to talk to me, he'll find that I am the one being silent. But it didn't last because I'd end up blowing up at him before he spoke to me!

While he was gone, I used to think the heartache would hit hard if I knew the separation was permanent. As bad as it was, I thought I'd be miserable without him. It wasn't until I left, never to be with him again, that I realized - there was NO heartache! I had been over him for a long time. It just hadn't felt like it at times because he was there to torment me.

I highly suspect it would be the same with you. The feeling of being on your own to do whatever you want would only bring relief, not heartache. I have continually been in a happy place without him! I think you would be, too. If you can, move far from him, as far as possible, and the key to getting on happily with your life is absolutely No Contact whatsoever ever again.

The reason he wants to R now is to keep you as a back-up for a safety net. The misery would continue. Believe me - I've been there!

Thanks for taking the time to reply

I expect that you’re right, having barely any contact the last 4 weeks has let me take a step back and see things a bit more clearly, I’ve realized that it’s not normal, I’m not normal

He’s no idea I’ve been thinking about divorce, he just sees it as yet another time he’s gone away not speaking to me. I think he suddenly realized that he’s not got lots of emails from me begging him to speak to me, that’s why I guess he’s agreed to MC because that was the last thing I asked him in relation to us.

I can’t talk to anyone IRL, they’d not believe me. Everyone thinks he’s wonderful, life and soul of the party, will help anyone, charming etc but his rages are now of the scale. I barely dare speak or move when he’s nearby.

I’m financially dependent on him, I used to be a strong career woman but gave work up to be able to travel with him, we have apartments in 3 other countries, otherwise I’d only see him for 3 weeks a year but I’ve started to look for jobs over the last couple of weeks. I just keep thinking if he could tell me the details about that night (or those nights rather) so I can put it in the past and get help for his anger then things could be good. He can be so different at times, the perfect husband, just seen less and less of that over the last year

Yes. However four years is much better than being 23 years, as in my case, into mostly rug sweeping and knowing its way too late in the game too get rid of the unknowns.

On the other hand, go for it. I wish I was just four yeas in. A lot of things would have been settled much differently.

I would have a short conversation with him saying that MC is a must and if he doesn't want to do that they there is no attempt at R.

Looking at job boards sounds like a great first step. The main thing that comes through from your posts is that you feel you have lost yourself in the unhealthy dynamic with your WH. You can get your independence back either by going your own way or by putting on the table everything in the M that needs to be dealt with (including the ONS); or you can try the latter to start with and head for D if it doesn't work. The main thing is to keep this returned feeling of clarity and strength.

Pulling for you!!

Thanks for the replies.. I do now think that pretty much all of the problems we have now are related to that one night 4 years ago. Every time he’s had to stay in a hotel since I’ve withdrawn from him, I’ve never actually told him why I’ve withdrawn, he’s got angry. Every time he’s gone out for a few drinks with his friends I’ve withdrawn from him because of no trust, he’s got angry. It’s caused a huge amount of resentment between us both that’s just escalated over time.

4 weeks ago I decided that I’d go right back to 4 years ago and do all the things that I should have done then and confront him. Then I had 4 weeks of no contact and realized how nice it felt to be able to breathe without him flying into a rage for me doing that too. So I’ve been questioning whether I should just leave it and if it’s even too late to go back to 4 years ago. Maybe I’d be happier on my own.

The reason that night affected me more than maybe a ONS 4 years ago should do now is that it was pre-planned. I’m not saying a drunken heat of the moment ONS is any better, but there just seems to be a larger amount of deceit in something that’s pre-planned in my mind. I have no idea if it was an escort, someone from a dating site, craigslist or a colleague but it was someone who he’d arranged about 2 weeks previously to meet. Who knows maybe it wasn’t even the first time and maybe it was an affair. I actually said to him as he left that morning that if he cheated on me then it would cause me/us so many problems, long term ones and maybe be the end of us, because I knew… and he still did it. Then denied it despite the evidence.

The thing that eats away at me the most is that the following morning on his way home after spending the night with whoever he sent a text saying “I hope you have got rid of that miserable face and we can now get on and enjoy Xmas” that was just hours after knowing what he’d done. I never even dared pull him on that at the time. I’m ashamed to be honest to admit that I just let him get away with it all.

IsthereEVERanend I’m sorry that it’s been 23 years for you. Are you sure it’s too late to get the answers that you need? That's very sad

Look into divorcing this guy. All you are to him is a verbal punching bag.

I wouldn't even bother to go the MC route, he's obviously expecting any type of counseling to be used to fix *you*.

He is a horrid, little, coward of a man.

If you're considering a D, you need to post in the Divorce/Separation forum where they will have all sorts of great advice. I say this because you have kids and are looking for work. I recall reading a time or two to talk to a lawyer before getting a job when you have kids. Don't remember the reason why (my child was out of house & I was working when I separated/divorced so it didn't apply to me) but they'll tell you.

And of course you s/b talking to a lawyer anyway if D is on the table. Just to get your ducks lined up.

I can relate to your story. I am 5 years out. My H does not have anger issues. But he does have control issues...He has denied everything, about anything since the beginning. He never admits anything. Always, sways every story. Semantics. So, no, he never confessed. And like you, I have too much info to be ignored as nothing....It is control. They may or maynot have messed up. But they dont want you to make any decisions or changes, so they twist everything, or in your case, get loud, to make you react in a way that stops this. Thats the point. They make you stop this.

After 15 yrs of me accusing H of stalking/flirting with a young girl while on vacation, he finally acknowledges it. 15 yrs later. And laughs. Says he was stupid husband on vacation, under alot of stress, and pretty girl flirted with him. Big deal. It was nothing. Now he makes it a comedy. They are rewritting events to save their asses. I pointed out the 15 yrs of telling me I had issues, I was crazy......ANd fully knowing he was manipulating me. He thought that might be helpful to admit this one thing. It just proved to me how manipulative he is.

Its never to late. Its never settled. Its constant wondering. ANd it makes you wonder about every single move they make. It always ties in together. That is no trust. Its never ending. Personally, after all his semantics and controlling, I feel I can say anything I want any time I want. I will not sit and feel this alone

I dont sense your anger. It will come. This is a roller coaster. Its off and on for along time. ANd I am afraid, with no confessions, it is off and on forever.......

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 12:35 PM, February 10th (Monday)]

Dear TooDevoted,

First, I sent you support and hugs.

As a concerned friend, I think you are living in a situation of domestic violence. It may not be physical but you are experiencing a high degree of verbal and emotional violence. And many women find that the emotional violence can have just as devastating consequences as physical violence.

And you are blaming yourself for it. Please don't. PLease consider seeking help from a local domestic violence support group for women.

What you describe is much bigger than just rugsweeping a ONS.

Please start to get your ducks in a row so you can take care of yourself. (And don't let him control / keep you in the dark about the family finances. This is a serious red flag.)

You deserve so much more.

What I'm trying to figure out (and I'm not being deliberately hurtful) is why you want to even have anything to do with this sorry excuse for a man. I say this because I see myself in you. Rages for no real reason, check. Walking on eggshells, check. Denigration on a regular basis, check. Just saying "I need to talk to you about something" was enough to get his back up and the spit flying. And I stayed around! Yep, co-dependent much?

Without severe and long IC, it's highly unlikely that this leopard will change his spots. My advice would be to serve him and think about yourself for a change. All the energy you now spend on walking on eggshells could be spent building your wonderful new life.

Edited to add: He may agree to MC, but when the going gets rough--and it will--he'll find excuses to quit. Mark my words. This type of personality does not like being told they are less than perfect.

[This message edited by lynnm1947 at 1:57 PM, February 10th (Monday)]

Thank you for all the replies, I appreciate every one of them and I'm going to think about all the advice

I just wish that time could stand still. I'll be seeing him in a week or two, he's expecting to talk so I either have to tell him I'm done or tell him he tells me the truth or I'm done. Either way I feel sick at just the thought of it

TwiceaFool - I should have made it clear (my head is messed up!!) the kids are older ones and are mine, we call them ours as he's always treated them as such and calls them his too. (Their dad isn't in the picture). But it makes it easier as really other than being married there are no long term ties with him. But thanks

cancuncrushed I hope I can get the anger, I do sometimes but I keep it inside because I know it makes it worse. I have no anger now, just scared of how he's going to react. Sorry you've had to deal with it too

rbf1234 I've never looked at it as emotional violence, certainly something to think about. I find it hard to criticize him and sort of feel disloyal because in so many ways he's so good. I think a lot of its my fault because I let him get away with it, when I do I couldnt wish for a more kind and caring husband. I know I need to start to realize that he's only that way when I'm 'behaving' and living my life how he wants me to.

lynnm1947 I don't know why I'm with him, I've thought many times of leaving, but then he goes back to the 'nice' him. I'm an idiot, I should have learnt by now I can't see him sticking out MC either, I think one or two sessions max

So much to think about. He has no idea that the 'talk' that he thinks we're having is going to even bring up 4 years ago. To him that's done and something never to be talked about again. Its in the past.

Many thanks to all of you, it's helped a lot even just typing all of this out!

If you get a chance, check out the NPD thread in the I Can Relate room. You will find some situations very similar.

The silent treatment is a form of emotional abuse. Raging is a form of manipulating you back under his control. Everything is for his benefit. Not getting your needs met-twisting his actions into being your fault-

Been there done that my XH is NPD, yours may also be one. Check out the thread.

Hugs,

K