SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It's very hard to try and impress the importance of boundaries on someone who doesn't understand them (i.e. your H). You know it's wrong, he denies/makes you feel crazy...so, you really have to be willing to have consequences for crossing the boundary of contacting her. You have to decide what those consequences will be and enforce them.

I never managed to do this with my ex (it wasn't an old friend in his case, but a pattern of going to bars alone, flirting and ignoring me). Before long he was obliterating boundaries and obliterating me emotionally with lies and gaslighting.

I think your H really chooses not to see that this is wrong, but that doesn't make it right. Unfortunately his attitude leaves you to be the enforcer which no one ever wants in a partnership--you or him. But it's much better to enforce the boundaries to protect yourself than to let this continue.

You just have to really think about what the line in the sand for you is and what your decision will be if your H won't respect it. It's not easy. There's a thread in general right now about the importance of this--the title is something about reunions and cray cray! ((((Mapper))))

No, he does NOT choose to see this as something that is not wrong. By keeping secret his interactions and communications with her, he KNOWS this is wrong. Anything that needs to be hidden is clearly wrong otherwise it would be out in the open. It is not too late to try to fix this.

Listen; gently, I do not feel that this is about enforcing boundaries. I feel that this is about exploring and facing what it is in your husband or about the state of your marriage that is making him crave this "fantasy" that he has created in his head about how things will be when he hangs out with this ex. He may even believe that he can keep it in control. But this is something that can be addressed together now, before things happen that cannot be taken back. Please find a way to let him know how scared and hurt you are about what is happening here. Let him know how important he is to you and how much you want to create a solid marriage that will last and satisfy both of your needs.

[This message edited by Neverwudaguessed at 5:41 PM, March 19th (Wednesday)]

Trust your gut. I wish I had.

Just checking in to see how you are doing today. I hope you are feeling better about how things, and we are here no matter how things are going and regardless of what you choose to do or not do.

So basically, your irresponsible husband has been mooning over Jen - and actively sneaking around all the time trying to connect with her - for the last 20 years.

Hopefully, you'll become strong enough to finally deal with it. I understand your fear of rocking the boat or changing the status quo once you confront him, but you'll eventually get to a point where you'll no longer accept this horrific level of disrespect.

You'll get there eventually. I'm wishing you much strength.

Yeah pretty much. I mean I have been checking his email since I first glimpsed him type his password in back in 2005! At that time we were living 1000 miles from each other and I was visiting at the time. Up until then I trusted him and just started peeking at his email once in a while when I was home. I came across an email from Jen asking him to go to a party with her. He replied that he would. I was so upset I called about something else and asked what he was doing that night. He told me he was going out with his buddy Todd! I didn't say anything then just like I don't say anything now. He could sense that something was wrong with me because he told me I was acting weird. Another time I saw another exchange of emails with another girl. He went down one Saturday night, about an hour from him, to meet this girl for dinner and take her for a ride on his motorcycle. This is AFTER we were engaged! Turns out I saw from emails that he spent the night at her house with her in HER BED! Apparently nothing happened because her email to him the next day was "I woke up in the middle of the night touching your butt and really wanted to start something but didn't". He sent back an email "Maybe next time you can come visit me!" He totally lied to me about that night too. Email correspondence stopped shortly after that as did the phone calls (which I was able to see on his phone account. Yet I still married the guy!

You are rugsweeping and he will continue doing this until you stand up for yourself. Nine times out of ten the marriages where the WS comes out of the fog is because the BS makes him.

You are going to end up with what you settle for.

I don't get the hesitation to upset the staus quo. You WANT things to change. You aren't happy with how things are. Why would you also be undermining your happiness by protecting his bad behavior? It's almost masochistic on your part. You HAVE to upset the staus quo in order for things to get better. Just by definition.

[This message edited by BtraydWife at 10:17 AM, March 20th (Thursday)]

Because I don't know how to be angry and I hate being angry. I always always feel like I need to apologize 30 minutes after because somehow I'm in the wrong. I don't want to live with no talking and ignoring each other. Yes, I would rather sweep it under the rug, get extremely angry inside and try and let it go. I have never been able to be angry at anyone my entire life and if I feel like they are just the tiniest bit upset about something I always think it's because of something I did and I have to make it better. I can't eat or sleep or work if I know that I have to go home to someone who is going to be made at me.

Mapper, what your husband is doing is NOT OKAY.

Very simple: it's NOT OKAY.

You have been in a love triangle with Jen for 20 years. I think you simply don't know anything else, and have forgotten/never-known what a real loyal spouse is supposed to act like.

I would flip, cry, be heartbroken, leave, pack his crap into bags and throw them in the yard, become hysterical...maybe one or all of those things, but these would be my feelings, if I discovered my husband had been carrying on like this throughout our ENTIRE marriage. The scenario I'm giving is an example of someone discovering something like this suddenly. Which brings me to my point about your perspective: you've had a marriage like this for 20 years -- it's your normal. And you have a hard time seeing it's not supposed to be your normal.

I think you are also used to being in detective mode so much that it has become "you". (It's a pit I've sunk into myself). You are each in your roles: he is the little bad boy hiding his candy and you are the Private Detective. You are not only used to his behavior, you are used to your role/habit of being a detective. It's like a game of "are you smart enough to catch him today?" When you do catch him, you have the pain of knowing what he's up to, but you also feel validated and like you have bested them. That's another problem, there should be no "them" (your husband + Jen). It is you against "them".

I don't know if he's had sex with her or not or if he will or he won't. But they are sure in a positon to if they wanted. (there's that 'they' word again).

You need to claim your man again, Mapper. Stand up for yourself.

But you are angry and you have every right to be angry. Angry is an appropriate emotion in this situation.

Anger comes from pain. Whenever the idea that you are angry upsets you, remember it's a sign that you are in pain in some way. Do you feel like other people have a right to hurt you? I bet you don't. Anger comes from pain. Emotional pain is no more acceptable than physical pain.

Pretending like you aren't angry doesn't work. It spills out and over into other areas of your life. It lowers your life expectancy because of stress. You don't feel secure in your marriage.

Nobody wants to be in a situation that makes them angry but you won't get out of it any other way than going through it.

There is no other escape. Pushing it down inside and trying to deny it does not make it go away. You know this. You've been living like this for a while and your plan to rugsweep isn't working for you.

That's because you are smarter than you are giving yourself credit for. You won't be able to convince yourself everything is fine because you KNOW it's not.

You aren't happy. You are angry. And that's ok because your husband is behaving in an inappropriate manner, disrespecting you, and lying to you.

Do you have access to IC? It would really help you. Your need to people please at the cost of your own integrity is a sign of low self esteem. Please call and make an appointment to talk to someone.

[This message edited by BtraydWife at 3:06 PM, March 20th (Thursday)]

Yesterday was pay day for H. He GAVE me his password and login to his work intranet a few years ago so I could go in and look around the site because they have a lot of deals you can get there for employees and spouses. His paycheck shows up on there as well. Last night I say to H "So are you still getting that garnishment of your paycheck from that one ticket you never paid?" He told me a few months ago they were going to start taking out money from his check because he was too irresponsible to pay the ticket years ago. I of course already knew they were because I looked at the check but wanted to hear it from him. He immediately goes "Wow so you have looked at my bank account and now you are looking at my paychecks? Nothing gets past you does it?" I said "I try not to let it."

If he is that upset that I saw his bank acct. and paycheck can you only imagine what his reaction would be if he knew I looked at his email, texts, phone calls and Facebook on a daily basis?! He would be livid! If he knew that I knew about all his chats with Jen on Facebook and that he has contacted her to meet for drinks or stopped by her place unannounced when I wasn't with him and all the things that happened that I knew about with a couple of other women years ago he would be so angry. Either angry or extremely ashamed, but I am sure he would place all the blame on me for snooping behind his back and deflect the whole situation onto me rather than him.