SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I suppose I never even considered that I would be cheated on. But now that I have been, I don't see any possibility at all that a second time would be forgiven in the slightest. I guess I would ask, how can you possibly forgive it again? For the kids sake? Or some other reason? Trying to put my fears of the future to rest, slowly but surely.

I too never even considered that my wh would cheat. After all, we had talked about that, and watched what friends went through.

2nd d-days come in a lot of flavors. For some it is enough trickle truth to be another d day, for others it is broken no contact, for others it is the continuation of the affair or a new affair.

In my case, i experienced broken no contact, and the revelation of an earlier phone sex relationship. I almost left after the 2nd broken no contact. He finally got real individual counseling, and started realizing he needed help. This was about 10 months after d day. His first IC after d day was a joke. But this time he found a real qualified IC, (unfortunately one who I knew socially, but that is another story). So I decided to give him a chance to get the help he needed. even if we don't make it, it would be worth it for our children to have a healthier father.

I consider the phone sex relationship revelation to really be a second d day. I stay (today and every day since that day) for several reasons. This earlier affair happened a long time ago- early in our marriage. He didn't consider it an affair until he read not just friends. He then realized that it was an affair and a betrayal. He talked it out in counseling. And eventually he told me. I stayed after that because it was an earlier offense- so another d day, but not anything he had done since the first d day- if that makes sense. And this put the later affair- d day 1- into a different light entirely. There was no way I was taking responsibility. And so many of the surface level whys he had given me simply couldn't stand up in face of this betrayal. So I am still here, and so is he. But I am still watching for progress. We have started year 3 (if you count from the original d day) now, and I am still watching his actions and trying to figure out if he will get healthy enough to be a safe partner.

I hope that helps. Obviously there are the kids and the life we have built.

forgiveness? And I am not sure that I have forgiven again. I am not sure that I have forgiven the first d day and affair. I see forgiveness as a journey or process. I am working my way along that road, but it isn't a quick or easy path. But it is something I need to do for me. Forgiveness is not for OW or WH, it is for me.

His first A got rugswept big time. discovered, confronted, HB, forgotten(well almost)

Fast forward to now, I struggle with the why do I stay question a lot. I stay because....I love him, I'm hopeful for a better M, I don't want to be alone, I'm not sure I could support myself, but mostly because I prayed & asked God if my marriage was going to end that my H would leave me or I'd have a job good enough to support myself fall in my lap. Neither of those have happened yet, so I stay.

I am getting stronger though and I'm getting ready to draw my line in the sand soon. We'll see what happens after that.

I have also wondered this.....

I always said for years, that if my husband cheated, that I would leave right away!!!! yeah, a year later and I'm still here.....

I say right now that I would leave right away if there was a 2nd DDay.... but honestly, you really don't know how you'd react to any given situation unless you actually go through it yourself.....

The second dday is really horrific, I seem to use that word a lot now.

DDay #1 i found an email and he left. We attempted R for 10 months, IC/MC.

It never felt right to me, he seemed to resist everything. No true remorse, no action.

Second dday I found a text and made him leave.

Would I give him a third chance? Not now. I think the only way I would have been able to was if he had some sort of epiphany and was dramatically different.

He emails me that he is sorry and loves me, misses me but has not done one thing to prove it. He also emails me a lot of really nasty stuff, blame shifting, projecting and delusional.

He is still the same. There has been ablsolutely no progress.

I have now choice but to D. It would be agreeing to a life of hell, again.

I think the choice of what to do rests very heavily on their effort and the situation.

I would say don't fear it but be aware, be on guard. Watch and verify for a lot longer than you think you need to.

After DD#1 the reasons for my husband's infidelity were not addressed properly. My husband did seek counseling but we both disliked the first IC counselor we went to (separately), and the second counselor he went to told him that she wouldn't be able to help him figure out why he had done what he had done. Besides, why keep looking back if working on the future is better? Husband never went back again, and because I hadn't found SI at the time, we didn't know any better.

Then a period a marital turmoil ensued and husband found himself being mistreated by everyone and the world again, and chose to retreat from the one that really loves him and instead find his external validation elsewhere again. But by the time DD#2 came around I demanded he go into counseling and figure out what happened and why it happened, because from Si I had learned there is always a deeper issue to be addressed. No counseling, no marriage. He was at my IC's office that same afternoon.

So even though I do "count" his first affair, I can't really blame him for not having figured out his issues after that. He has done everything he can to change and has figured out why it happened and what to do to prevent it from happening ever again. He has realized the MOW is not his friend when all she does is help him be an awful version of himself and try to ruin his marriage. And that is why I chose to stay after DD#2.

It seems that mostly you all kind of put the line in the sand after true reconciliation has started. I guess I agree there. Once they say and do a lot to try to rebuild the marriage and get on track, getting off track after that really is unacceptable. So I think we're pretty much on the same page, with just the details of the situation varying. cantaccept, I agree about the watch and verify for sure. Personally, it's going to be a lot harder for me to *stop* watching and verifying, hopefully I can stop eventually.

this is a difficult question.

I suppose yes, once we know that there is true remorse, then both spouses can get to work. However, is it sometimes too late?

My husband's two affairs were an aberration, I think, a getting it out of his system type of thing.

The thing is, with two ddays - the person you have to forgive is yourself, for staying. That is very hard. You don't want to be a doormat, you want your spouse to know you mean business. I WISH I would have filed at the second Dday and had him win me back somehow. When I caught him he said he was glad I caught him and that he was sick of it, like he couldn't stop it himself. He knew he had a problem. I knew he had a problem that didn't reflect the man he was previously for 25 years. I guess it's that I knew him and that this wasn't normal for him. He was self medicating.

Yet, it's still very very hard. I have empathy for his first affair. I do NOT for his second and I don't how to get there. Me having this resentment could end our marriage. The jury is still out.

[This message edited by rachelc at 7:18 AM, February 21st (Friday)]

After the 1st time in 2002 I opted to see if reconciliation was an option, was it possible. No matter what my wife had done, I couldn't help but feel sorry for her. Had I called it quits, she would have struggled financially. I also to a large extent hung in due to my upbrining and for my young innocent daughters sake. In the end 6+ years on we were a normal couple, the sins of the past had no hold on our relationship.

As a result she had my full trust again, this meant I wouldn't even given her phone a second glance, be concerned about where she was, who she was with, etc. Alas late last year that trust was yet again abused. If anything good came out of the 1st occurence, it was that I would always trust my gut and my gut told me there was a serious problem. I was thus able to identify and put a stop to the brewing relationship.

I had always said I wouldn't accept one incident, then it happened and I said catagorically that a 2nd would be the end, no discussion, you go your way, I go mine. Well here I am after round 2.

Why have I stuck around? Foremost, my wife on both occassions has shown true remorse, the deep desire to right the wrongs, cut contact with the OP and most of all the behavior is in direct contrast to who she is (probably the biggest frustration to me as well). She has a very caring/helpful personality that can easily result in blurred boundaries and manipulation. Then from my side I love her too much to simply throw her to the side, not if she truely wants to reconcile. Probably just my personality to be overly understanding and forgiving.

Will I stick around for a 3rd time? I hope not, but I certainly hope I won't need to be tested on that, because these things take years off your life.

I am however a logical person, so the 1st may be a slip in judgement, a 2nd suggests a character flaw which will probably mean a 3rd will come. I however can't cast judgement unless a 3rd presents itself, so for now she has the benefit of the doubt.

For myself, my 2nd dday was a continuation and more truth from dday #1. At dday #1, it was just a simple EA, but I came to realize and discover much more, that it was a PA(that had ended when I found out about the EA). To be honest, granted the thoughts may have been worse in my mind and heart, but what really made the dday #2 worse, is all the extra lies and false R between dday 1 & 2.

Since then, my wife has been completely remorseful. She is in IC, we are in MC and despite her mixed feelings, we are doing Retrouvaille next weekend. She is putting forth a extreme effort to make our M and R work.

Had he not confessed on his own, and shown immediate remorse... he'd not be here. If I had found this shit out on my own, like the first time... We had weeks of continued contact and months of TT, after dday 1, and years of rugsweeping and ignoring things that should have been dealt with then.

Truthfully... we did NOT deal with the underlying issues. those that helped him convince himself that what he was doing was ok.

That said... a third dday will be the end... no amount of remorse will mean a thing. if he is able to convince himself that it's okay, again... there's no hope for him, and I will not subject myself to that life.

[This message edited by steadfast1973 at 7:42 AM, February 21st (Friday)]

Well for me the first time I rug swept since it was so early on in our relationship. As far as I know nothing physical ever happened so I let it go and believed WH when he said he would no longer have contact with her. Fast forward two three years: we were married, had an 11 month old, and I was 8 months pregnant. I had no job, no resources, and virtually no support system. I was blindsighted at that point although I should have seen it coming. The signs were all there. Again, nothing physical happened so I wasn't sure if it should be a deal breaker. I was in this strange limbo for months not sure if I wanted to R or D. When I think back on all that he has done I think it's obvious I shouldn't waste any more time. Still, he shows signs of change and I feel I owe it to my kids to wait and see how it all pans out. I actually feel more in control now than I ever have. At any moment I can decide it's not what I want and leave. I don't have to have a valid reason, which is what I used to feel. I thought if I just had solid proof...well enough is enough. If it's too much at any point in time...even years down the road, I still have the right to say this isn't working for ME. I have a choice, and I like that.

Had he not confessed on his own, and shown immediate remorse... he'd not be here. If I had found this shit out on my own, like the first tim

this, too, is very very difficult to recover from. Right now, I trust he's not having an affair. But, I'm sure there are things he doesnt' tell me simply because he proved he wont' come to me with difficult stuff. I caught him at both affairs and I also caught a broken NC.

I feel I can see his heart that he wants to be with me and he is faithful, but he is a sneaky devil. When we were going through this my sister sat me down and said, "how do you think he got to be the president of a bank at 42? He has cheated in other areas of his life as well."

It's so hard to put this all together to determine if this is the right choice.

This is a fascinating question. When I look back now with 20/20 hindsight, I should've just kicked him to the curb on the first D-Day. But he was/is a master wordsmith, he had me convinced through all the d-days and tt that he was truly remorseful (he was really just remorseful about getting caught), that none of it meant a thing because he actually Loved only me, and that if I would just keep him, we'd be so happy forever.

3 years of false R later... I'd finally had enough. But, yeah, I gave him an awful lot of rope given all the things that came out along the way. I just wanted so badly to have our before-any-of-the-A-shit-happened marriage back.

[This message edited by ISPIFFD at 8:25 AM, February 21st (Friday)]

DD #3 was a continuation of DD #1. He will not really admit to an EA, just a BJ once, yet he talked with her for weeks, texts, calls, etc. daily, many, many. He believes "affair" means he loved her or had any feelings for her, which he adamantly denies, thus his reluctance to call it an EA. It was just a one-time BJ, which was wrong but not an "affair" to him.

DD #2 was admission to a ONS 20 years ago after I thought I had an STD and confronted him.

Why do I stay? He seems remorseful for ONS 20 yrs ago. He was drinking at the bar (duh). He is an alcoholic. I married him w/o knowing that (I was 18). He confessed to his father within 24 hours of having the ONS (working out of town with him). This is huge to me.

The EA/PA in 2010 was during a time of extreme mental anguish on his part. PTSD, severe depression, excessive drinking and taking Celexa, which caused him to be aggressive and very angry, very entitled and selfish and forced a psychotic break that resulted in a 4-day stay in a psych ward. After getting off that med in Jan 2011, he turned around. I feel these things contributed.

Right now, the alcoholism and the behaviors from that (aside from adultery) will be what ends this marriage.

I stay because he has a good side. I can't get peace with leaving him just yet. I struggle with cheating being a deal breaker regardless of the circumstances. I'm still on the fence about R. He is trying. I wonder if it will ever be enough and for that, I feel horrible.

I will say this-- I WILL NOT accept another event from here on out. If there is ever another inappropriate relationship with a woman, we are done. He knows this. He swears he has changed. Time will tell. Also, he has until June (6 mos from Dday #2) to get sober and get help for his PTSD from Iraq. I'll stand by him, but he has to do this for us.

[This message edited by AppalachianGal at 11:18 AM, February 21st (Friday)]

It's a great, and fair, question. And probably? I still don't really know.

Some factors for me included that dday #2 was just 3 months after the first. It was continued contact and one lunch. No physical stuff. That helped.

But mostly, it was just...different...on dday2. HE was the one that totally lost his shit. He came unglued. Every bit of bullshit rationalization he'd been telling himself about why they could remain friends instantly looked foolish and stupid to him. He KNEW he was the problem and that HE was wrong.

When I found that affair phone in the garage, I knew it was over. I told him, "I am sure you will be very happy together. I am sure you will have a lovely wedding" and gave him my rings. I got my purse and my car keys and started to leave. And I think maybe he whispered, "please don't go" or something similar. Shit got real. We sat on the floor of the garage and just looked at each other. Finally he said, "jesus chr**t, I am fucked up" or similar. I said, "yep."

In many ways, I wish I would have left that night, if for no other reason than to make a point. But I'm not much of a game player, so I gave him my demands and gave him a week to meet them. And he did. Everything he'd been dragging his feet on for 3 months - which I had allowed - were quickly and efficiently completed.

Things were different. Hiss actions matched his words.

But there is no denying that the second dday is a motherfucker. It makes reconciling that much harder.

I still wonder why I let him move home after the 2nd discovery, I had filed for divorce, kicked him out, the whole shebang. He finally got it after all that though, finally realized he was doing bad stuff, finally got into SA counseling, got away from coworker, realized he still wanted me and our family. That's why I stayed, because he finally got it. If he relapses or stops working on recovery than all I have to do is call the lawyer and say serve him!

If I could do DDay1 over again, knowing what I know now... I'd let EAP have him... then she'd be the one dealing with his porn addiction and prostitute visit...

[This message edited by steadfast1973 at 12:21 PM, February 21st (Friday)]

DD#2 was a continuation of DD#2. We were separated after DD#1 at the time of DD#2 were trying to buy a house and get the family back together. I dont think he thought he would get caught. But I put my foot in the sand. He said sorry, but said it was partly my fault. That's when I stopped talking to him. Its only been about a month since DD#2. If I see true remorse I'll consider, but I havent seen it...so I'm making my next move my best move.

Basically, the day of the hooker date, I knew. I saw red flags... and I was done... I felt no need to confront, or get proof... I knew something was amiss, and I had no desire for the details. I was just done, and ducks were being lined up to leave him, BEFORE he did it. (part of me feels like shit for not confronting, then, now, though...) Then, he surprised me... I was more shocked at his owning of it all then I was about the deed.