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Anyone here suffer from OCPD or have a partner that suffers from OCPD? What type of issues did you have in everyday life and even more so, what sexual issues did you have?

Apologies in advance for the length.

I guess what I'm looking for here is some advice on how people have dealt with OCPD spilling over into their bedrooms.

Background - An affair does not play into this situation between me and my wife. I'm a BC (betrayed child) and have many personal issues as a result of my mother's A(s) which is why I'm here on SI. Neither of us is a BS or WS.

My wife Mon night had a panic attack in the middle of us having sex. We were changing positions and she complete froze. This is something that we've done thousands of times before. We stop having sex immediately and I wait 30 min for her to calm down before I ask her what I did. A classic symptom of being the child of a narcissist is to blame oneself for everything. Which I do. She proceeds to tell mer that it's not me it's her and she's not sure what happened. So I let it go Mon night but of course in my own head I start to obsess and I know I did something wrong. I bring it up Tue morning. Again she says she's not sure what happened or why. That it's not me, it's her. Ok, but I'm still not buying...make a long story short, from another conversation I had here on SI about having control in the bedroom I ask her if this is some sort of a control issue. Her eyes get big and she says yes. But not in the typical sense I think of control. She says that because the second position what we were about to go into (the second position is something she enjoys and we've done thousands of times, but not all the time) was not in her head for that evening she had the panic attack. It wasn't part of the order of what was in her head for that night.

Suddenly thousands, years worth, of light bulbs go off in my head. I drop the conversation because she is clearly getting upset. I remember that she does have what she refers to as OCD tendencies in her daily life. Her need to have a schedule for everything, her need to have an order of things. We went to Disney a few months ago and we didn't have a schedule (at my request) for the first day and she couldn't enjoy herself at all. Rest of the trip was agenda and schedule city. Which I don't really have a problem with and can deal with all of this stuff in daily life. I just roll with it. But now I see where this has crept over into our bedroom and I never would have put OCPD in our bedroom until Mon night. Why would I never have figured that out? Because everything is always my fault.

I start doing research on the internet the last two days. I discover that she doesn't really fall into OCD all that much, although she does have a few thing there. OCPD however... almost exactly. While she was in a good place yesterday, I bring up what I found out. She's a little upset with it, understandably, but I take her to all the websites I was looking at. It was an OMG moment for her. She says that at least 80% of what she read was true about her. Even things I didn't think were true. She said I don't see her perfectionist issue because that happens where she works and at home it just can't happen with having 3 kids.

Our sexual issues with this. For several years we could only have sex on Sat. nights and we both had problems initiating sex. Then we shut down sex altogether for months. I just thought we were in a rut with the frequency and how we did the same thing every time we had sex. I also realize I haven't been the greatest husband and I take all the blame. She says no that she has her own issues too and even tells me jokingly that she has some OCD issues. I laugh it off. Ha ha ha, OCD, cute. I never REALLY listen to her. So I go to work on myself at the beginning of last summer.

Once we are ready to start to have sex again she wants to schedule sex (or sexual activity - not always traditional intercourse, sometimes me just pleasing her or vice versa) three nights a week. She says it will help her with her "mind issues" knowing that she's the one in control of when it happens. I'm just happy to be having sex so I just go with it and don't REALLY listen to her. She has a panic attack at one point during the summer. I of course freak out and think I'm doing something wrong. She says no, it's not me it's her and proceeds to ask me if I could send her messages on what we would do in bed during the day before we start to have sex. I interpret this as she wants mental foreplay from me. Sending message about what I was going to do to her quickly progressed into dirty talk because I thought that was what she was looking for. Nope. By her own admission she was clinically dissecting those messages and making sure that I stuck to the script. I was also trying for some spontaneous sex with all of the things that I was trying. Which were ALL thing she wanted. None of it worked, I shut down the "dirty talk" (which according to her really wasn't all that dirty), I shut down sending love letters, shut down anything that I had been trying because none of it was working. I opened a thread here about it t/j initiating sex/sexless marriage hoping to get advice on how I could be better and maybe get some spontaneity back in our sex life. Make a long story short she confirmed to me last night that none of what I tried mattered. If it's not part of the schedule/order, it's not even acknowledged in her head. She appreciates the nice things that I do and all of the changes I have made, figuring out her love language, etc, but none of that will ever equal spontaneous sex for her. She has to have it scheduled. And if she doesn't have an order/script/agenda (whatever you want to call it) it can't happen for her. For the record it wasn't always like this and I'm not sure when exactly it started to sneak in. I can't see past my own bullshit issues anyway.

Now that I'm REALLY listening to her, she also tells me that some of this need to schedule, order, mind racing, etc has to do with past sexual traumas. She's experienced. Scheduling helps her with her control with when and how. Although the how is now clearly an issue now because I stopped sending a "script" months ago. She confirmed that she has minor anxiety at first each time we go to have sex but she's able to push through it and once I make her body feel really good she can get lost in it and have an orgasm. It just hard for her at first to get to that point because her "mind is racing".

First and foremost she admits she needs IC. She's not ready to face it so she wants to continue to schedule three days a week and wants me to send her a script on what we are going to be doing that night. I'm fine with continuing to do this in the short term or for a while. I just want her to be able to have fun and enjoy herself and if this is what she needs fine. But she admits that she needs to go to IC and acknowledges my desire for some spontaneity. She will eventually work up to IC.

All of this is brand new to us. The fact that this may not be me is a foreign concept to me that I can't get my head around. I know she needs to help herself, but what else can I do to help? Anyone else have any similar issues? Anyone else with OCPD or have a partner with OCPD?

Sorry this is so long. This is all new to me and I'm still somewhat in a panic stage myself because I don't have control over it. All I can do is help. So what can I do? What have you done?

Thanks,

yop

ETA - Changed OPCD to OCPD above. Sorry about the title description

ETS2 - I should also add that I don't want to seem to be making OCPD all about sex with us. It's not that at all. Sex is the only place where this has been an issue for us as a couple.

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 7:57 AM, February 28th (Friday)]

I'm not familiar with OCPD. I'll have to look that up.

I hope someone has some experience to share with you.

I just did a quick search. I never knew there was a difference between that and OCD. Thank you for sharing.

I don't have any relevant experience to share but you shouldn't be panicking--you should be celebrating! Putting a framework on the issue and having your wife start IC herself to investigate this will I'm sure do wonders.

she admits she needs IC. She's not ready to face it

she admits that she needs to go to IC and acknowledges my desire for some spontaneity. She will eventually work up to IC.

If she decides to address it, then it will be on her timeline.

Perhaps it would help her to be aware of the following...

There are 5 stages of change:

1. Precontemplation is the stage at which there is no intention to change behavior in the foreseeable future. Many individuals in this stage are unaware or under-aware of their problems.

2. Contemplation is the stage in which people are aware that a problem exists and are seriously thinking about overcoming it but have not yet made a commitment to take action.

3. Preparation is a stage that combines intention and behavioral criteria. Individuals in this stage are intending to take action in the next month and have unsuccessfully taken action in the past year.

4. Action is the stage in which individuals modify their behavior, experiences, or environment in order to overcome their problems. Action involves the most overt behavioral changes and requires considerable commitment of time and energy.

5. Maintenance is the stage in which people work to prevent relapse and consolidate the gains attained during action. For addictive behaviors this stage extends from six months to an indeterminate period past the initial action.

As you've read, there is a difference between OCD and OCPD although things can overlap. I've read about OCPD and a lot of it fits for myself (or has more in the past) although I've not been diagnosed with it and did not pursue to be diagnosed with it. The various traits can be seen in many people.

And oddly enough, I even had OCD symptoms flare up many years ago (I didn't know it was OCD related at the time) and they seemed to come out of nowhere and then disappeared again just as quickly. The brain really is fascinating.

Lots of BS experience mind movies following the trauma of infidelity, but if I read part of your profile currently you and your wife have not had an affair in your marriage.

People who have CSA experience similar symptoms such as a need for control or panic attacks. You mentioned she has had past sexual traumas, I would assume this is all tied into that.

I have no idea what to tell you other than she needs IC and it's good that she's recognizing that. Hopefully fear of the unknown of IC or facing her issues will not hold her back and continue for her to put it off.

And it's important for you to look at your own issues and not to automatically take the blame and assume the problem is you. It's great that the two of you are talking about this, it's how true intimacy starts.

Personally, and I could be wrong, maybe read more about what it's like to have a partner with past sexual trauma (which is more 'common') and what behaviors manifest from that, rather than focusing on OCPD (which is less common) and less information about it.

Good luck with everything.

Thanks for the continued support everyone. Honestly I'm not expecting much here. I wouldn't and clearly don't know how to answer this either. I'm kinda fishing here. Honestly, through my research I found that this OCPD thing gets acted out in BDSM and dom/sub stuff, the rigid scheduling, control, all that stuff. But that stuff is so not us, so the web wasn't very helpful. Come to think of it now that I'm writing another light bulb has gone off. She has asked me over the last few years to "take the lead" in the bedroom and be somewhat dominant I guess? But that then falls out of the "script"? when I tried that once or twice and I immediately backed off. I'll have to ask her about that too. Can you see why I'm so confused? The signals I get in the past have been so mixed when she says she wants one thing and isn't really clear about it so I think one thing when it's really about this OCPD thing. I'm finally listening to her and can see everything now makes sense with OCPD in the equation. I love my wife and want to do all I can to help which is why I'm fishing here... but really this is a tough topic...I think.

This is one thing we read yesterday where she says this fits her exactly:

"It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:

1. feelings of excessive doubt and caution;

2. preoccupation with details, rules, lists, order, organization or schedule;

3. perfectionism that interferes with task completion;

4. excessive conscientiousness, scrupulousness, and undue preoccupation with productivity to the exclusion of pleasure and interpersonal relationships;"

She says she has all 4. They just effect different parts of her life except 2 effects all aspects of her life.

I'm in no rush for her to go to IC and I'm not going to force it. I'm ok with how things are at the moment. Clearly in the Contemplation stage.

Thanks for that.

Thanks Dixie D. She has also admitted that she had many OCD symptoms as a child. Everything had to be even numbers, depending on where she sat she had to chew on a certain side. She still has 1 or 2 but are very mild and she can control. She does this weird thing with her fingers when no one is looking. She says it soothes her.

And I agree about true intimacy. We are now closer than we have ever been in our 16 year relationship and I feel like if we can get through this minor bump in the road it will bring us one step further together.

small t/j -sorry!

IWantDoOver-Where did you get those 5 stages of change? I'd like to learn more.

please tj away. I wouldn't mind learning more too

I first learned in psychology classes years ago, but was reminded by a post here on SI, then I googled for more info:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/happiness-in-world/200910/5-steps-changing-any-behavior

Behavior modification is not simply stopping a bad behavior, it's replacing a "bad" behavior with a

"good" (desired) behavior.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/25/fashion/25love.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

yearsofpain25,

First, I read your story - how sad. You've led a tough life. It's really heartwarming to see that through it all you're such a caring, compassionate person. It's truly admirable.

Now, as for OCPD, please, have her speak to a professional. We all too often seek answers and find a PD that 'fits' our needs and apply it to people. Alone, that's not really a big deal. However, if you try to work with her in the parameters of her having OCPD, and she isn't really afflicted by this disorder, then more harm than good may be the result of the efforts. Please don't think I'm judging you. I'm not, at all. I think your concern shows your love for your wife. I just read so often, all over the place, of people diagnosing someone with NPD, or BPD, or some other PD, when in reality all of us have some traits of all disorders.

OCPD is exceptionally rare - less than 1% of the population has this PD. Further, it is usually found in men. Now, that does NOT mean your wife does not have OCPD. I put these numbers up simply to show that her chances of actually having the disorder are rare. Example - if it's 1%, and it's usually men - and for this discussion I'll say 'usually' means 70% - that means that 10 people in 1,000 have this, and only 3 of them are women.

Your wife may very well have this disorder. I do have to say, the 4 things you've listed describe myself and any other accountant out there. Those are very generic traits. Again - I'm not saying your wife doesn't have OCPD. I'm just asking - please, have her speak to a psychiatrist that is experienced with this disorder before working with her in a manner that one would work with a diagnosed OCPD.

Regardless of what is troubling your wife, I do hope the two of you find some common ground. We're always here to listen, whatever the issue.

Some good stuff here, YOP, even if not the answers you are seeking.

I agree with norabird. Rejoice. You're figuring it out and can now address it.

I think DixieD has good advice on where to focus too. Might be a better avenue for research.

I appreciate those stages of change from IWantDoOver. Really good stuff on so many levels.

Glad you have patience. And I must agree-- PLEASE STOP BLAMING YOURSELF for this. Glad you are finally "really listening". Together you will work through this. Keep working together. The intimacy you are building together is invaluable!

ETA: cross posted with painfulpast. I agree that research is good, but self-diagnosis can be dangerous. Your W need not be afraid of IC. Encourage her to go see one. You've done it- and survived!!!! She needs to be just as brave!!!!

[This message edited by StillStanding1 at 11:56 AM, February 28th (Friday)]

Thanks IWantDoOver. Interesting stuff.

I couldn't agree more painfulpast. The OCPD "label" I did for ease of discussion here. Not 100% on that's what it is...although it really sounds that way. W was a little bummed about those stats when we saw them yesterday. I'm not a big label fan myself as I recently was diagnosed with several and didn't care for those labels all that much. But clearly she is saying that she has these issues that fit into this "label" so for ease of discussion we will start with that. Hopefully it's not that and maybe she doesn't really have a PD.

Hi Still, I'm still trying to listen to you. I have a hard time hearing through the noise in my own head and my natural reaction is to try and take responsibility myself somehow. I'm good at twisting things in my head as you've read in my other threads. W thinks it's good for her to go to IC for it. Like me though she can be stubborn at first. She has to "warm up" to it. She has gone to IC before for other issues after her father died. But she has never gone specifically for these issues.

There is actually more posted here than I thought I would get. Thanks again for the support everyone.

IWantDoOver-Thank you!

I don't know what the nuances are between OCD and OCPD but my WH is SA and I do know there is a high rate of co-occurance of lots of personality disorders and or addictions with SA. He has some degree of Obsessive Compulsive tendencies but has never been - to my knowledge - dx as such.

Yes, we have has ALL sorts of issues with our sex life. In addition to it being non-existent for 7 1/2 years (no that was not a typo) and nearly non-existent since after we married, since we resumed having sex it's followed the same sort of scenario…every time. Come home from date night, get ready for bed, get into bed, cuddle…same position, etc. It's the same thing. Every time.There's never any undressing and going for it. Never sex during the week. Ever. Always on the weekends. Very rigid ideas about sex/intimacy. It's definitely an intimacy disorder with him.

We've had a long list of issues to work on. This is one thing that is on the list. I do regret not marrying someone more boring and "normal." I really should have known better. I know everyone has issues but a lot of people have better communication and coping skills.

Update because I seem to be discussing sexual assault/abuse both IRL and here on SI in some threads.

It's been a solid month for my wife and I figuring out what is going on with her. Yes this thing that my wife has is looking more and more like it is truly OCPD. She has not been to IC yet herself and does not have an official diagnosis, but she is planning on going in the future. She's waiting for things with my situation to calm down some before she starts to go. She knows she needs to but she's not ready yet and the schedule is crazy with our 3 kids. I point out that I had some of the same excuses about not going. She's getting there. I have spoken to my C about this situation and she's not willing to give an official diagnosis obviously but she believe from everything we've talked about we may be onto something. My wife has also been doing her own research. She had a conversation with a coworker who has been officially diagnosed with OCPD today. Go figure that they like each other as people but HATE working together as they are both perfectionist control freaks.

Anyway, we have been discussing what happened to her in college regarding her sexual assault. There's only one thing she remembers during the assault. She mostly remembers how sore she was the next day and what she felt like afterwards. She has opened up about how she acted out sexually after the event and how her method of control was to make out with someone, whether she wanted to or not, in a public place (parties, bars, whatever) as a way of controlling the situation. Of course it did lead to sex a few times that she didn't really want. However, in her twisted thinking she thought she could use caution and control the evening by kissing in public view and she would pick the guy. Sort of like a preemptive strike before someone else could approach her. This would happen every time she went out after the assault. She would mentally schedule the events in her head of what she would allow to happen that night. She would choose the guy, kiss/make out, allow some petting, and not allow herself to go off somewhere out of view. This is how she controlled whatever was going to happen to her when she went out. She was also sexually assaulted a few times by a boyfriend when she was 16 which I knew about, but it was the assault in college that triggered her to be like this. The scheduled control led to preoccupation with details on how the night would play out. The more she planned out the evening in her head, the more she controlled. Then very quickly this progressed into scheduling all aspects of her daily life. She has a set of rules that she has to follow for herself. Of course there is a lot more to it than that and more we have discussed but that is the gist of it.

Looking back this really does explain so many things in our life together over the years. Even more than just the sexual issues. For now to ensure she does not have panic attacks, she schedules the nights, and the she makes me write a bullet pointed script of what we will be doing (she does not want to decide what we do but reserves the power of veto). Not so much a play by play of when we do each thing, more just so that she knows what is on the menu. We can't deviate from her scheduled nights or the script or she could have a full blown panic attack again. She knows I like spontaneous sex and as many of you know from another thread that I had where I hadn't yet realized this OCPD thing, I was trying everything in the book and nothing was working. Thought it was all me, etc. She figured out a compromise and twice now she didn't let know of a scheduled night...so it seems spontaneous to me even if it's really not to her. She wrote the script and was in control on those nights. Hey whatever works right? I just want her to be comfortable and not have to suffer.

Crazy world we live in folks.

yop

Hi and ((((((((yearsofpain and mrsyearsofpain))))))

...very scared to post this...sorry

...deep breath...I have OCPD. It has been much worse after DDay. I have had bouts of bad times with OCPD my whole life. I also have OCD but that seems to be mostly under control these days! I no longer shower 5 times a day...but I do have to be clean!

I live through lists, they help me. My house is too clean (!) I hadn't realised that was possible

I am detail obsessed and remember every date, day and time of every lie he ever told me.

I have become alarmingly rigid over all behaviours that touch on morality, at all.

I work for my family to the point where I cannot join them in activities because I have to complete the jobs first.

My H videoed me...I am the energiser bunny...I never stopped and was never still.

Also my terror of making errors did stop me communicating with my H for a long time, I just did not speak.

I still don't know why I am like this but I do know that in times of stress and pain it is much, much worse. My H reminds me, gently, these days when I am going too far and makes me a cup of tea, holds my hand and just lets me be still...I find it hard but I know I need his help with that, and he needs me to be with him, not busy.

All that aside, it has never affected our sex life (fingers crossed forever) but I would seek help (again) if it did.

Please don't either of you feel alone. Thanks to your post for the first time in my entire life I no longer feel alone.

Truly, tired but happy

xxx

Edited for errors...I do that

[This message edited by Truly at 8:06 PM, April 1st (Tuesday)]

Hi Truly. I read your post to MrsYop and she wanted to say thank you. She can relate to all of it except keeping the house clean but only because of 3 kids 10 and under and also has a full time career. "Drives me crazy that the house suffers". She is also energizer bunny especially in her career to the point that it pisses many people off (we work for same company) because she is "too good at her job". Most if her OCD is under control too.

Thank you very much for your post. It was very much appreciated by both of us.

Back at ya (((((Truly)))))