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just to add - I am shocked at the number of our friends who smoke pot - we are the same age as you as well.

but yeah, you have made the point that pot smoking or turning to any substance is conflict avoidance and lying is conflict avoidance. I guess at least he knows where he needs to start.

I strongly believe boundaries set around the marriage need to be owned and enforced by both parties.

there are many people out there who want to be the life of the party, the not Debbie downer, they'll say yes to everything. I wonder if they'd stop to think that they'd be more respected if they lived according to their values with those values being crystal clear to everyone around them. Hopefully, after an affair, a value would be commitment to the marriage at all costs - meaning you stand united, no matter what.

[This message edited by rachelc at 9:50 AM, April 14th (Monday)]

LA44:I am not the mom. I am not going to quiz him. When I said to him, "I don't like being lied to" I wasn't "kinda lying". That is a straight up statement. If you have read any of the last, what? 500 posts I have made you know I don't play games.

Oh, sorry. I was not referring to the "I don't like being lied to" line. I was referring to your quote below, where you say you caught a whiff and then asked, "oh, what's that smell?" It was that question that I thought was not upfront on your part. I realize it is only my opinion, and I can respect that you have a difference of opinion, but IMHO it would have been more direct to state that you thought he smelled like pot and then to ask him directly if he had been smoking.

BTW, I don't see how asking a point-blank question is considered either mothering or quizzing? I do however think the, "oh, what's that smell?" question can be viewed as passive-aggressive, a possible trap, an assumption, quizzing, or parenting/policing.

LA44:He came upstairs and I caught a whiff. It was actually gross and not sweet like reg pot. I am a blood-hound. You cannot have a beer at 2pm and not think I won't smell it at 6pm. Child of an alcoholic. I am conditioned to find it.

But what really bugs the shit out of me is that when I said, "oh. What's that smell?" He goes,

"Is it smoke? It must be smoke bc I am bbq'ing". And he offers me his shirt.

But at that point, he hadn't smoked yet, right? So your assumption that he had already been smoking was wrong. Which leads me to question if you really truly believe he knew what you were really asking? Or, do you think he thought you meant the bbq smoke smell? Because you seemed convinced at that point that he was lying to you because you even go on to say that that was what really pissed you off (that he was blaming the bbq). And that is exactly what I meant by "playing games." When you don't ask a direct question, how can you be certain he understands what you are asking?

BTW, I do read your posts (not all 500+ of them), and while I cannot be certain that you were trying to be snarky with your comment, I personally thought it sounded a little patronizing (bc, if I read, I should know you don't play games). Part of me wants to apologize for offending you, but part of me also wants to point out that you do sound like my mom: am I being reprimanded for not completing the required reading, or is it my general stupidity? (rhetorical questions)

Why am I pointing these things out? Because it's easy to hear the "you are so right to be pissed" posts. But they don't necessarily help with the continued growth of your marriage, or perhaps with your own personal growth. Because perhaps your H does feel patronized? Maybe he feels that he will always be guilty in your eyes? Maybe he doesn't feel you provide a safe environment for him to be honest with you? Maybe he feels his honesty only gets him punished, or ignored, or banished to the spare room, or threatened with divorce?

FTR, I do not condone his behaviour. He's wrong to break a house rule.

LA44:He needs to be transparent and then give me the chance to accept his honesty. He didn't even give me that chance when he smoked at his friends house and didn't tell me. And he wasn't going to tell me about yesterday either.

We are NOT in MC right now. We need to be.

I am curious to know, from him, how you could ask for what you need in a way that would allow him to hear you? I am also curious to know, from him, what actions he feels he needs to see from you in order for him to view you as safe to receive his truth?

ETA: Or maybe he does hear you and he does consider you safe?

[This message edited by sunnyrain at 11:07 AM, April 14th (Monday)]

Have you ever asked him what he will say to the boys when it is time for the "drug talk" ? Does he expect to be honest about his pot-smoking and tell them not to? Is he going to lie or is he expecting to light up right along with them?

I just ask because it will be a huge hmmm moment when it comes about. We were and have always been honest with our kids when it comes to our prior drug use and alcohol consumption.

Neither of us use any type of recreational drugs, so it's easy to set the "not in our home " rule.

I was just wondering...

as for this sitch I wonder if he hadn't smoked pot when he came upstairs and had refused it, was his later smoking to piss you off? You should ask him what it was that made him change his no to a yes.

And as far as drawing a line, some people take it as you are making the rules and he can't have his say. I think when we are in R and creating a new marriage we have to be clear on our needs. What we need to feel safe, to trust again and to continue to have to move forward.

If lying is the deal-breaker then that's ok. If he is comfortable lying (even by omission) over occasional pot-smoking then lying about a woman's attention or an urge or feeling one has becomes easier to fit into "she will be mad so I won't tell"

Being transparent takes time, trust in each other and some back-steps. It does get easier. I found letting my husband know how something hurt me works much better than showing the anger that comes as a result.

Being transparent takes time, trust in each other and some back-steps. It does get easier. I found letting my husband know how something hurt me works much better than showing the anger that comes as a result.

Profound, karma. At least in my situation.

And I think it is an overstatement to say that they'll take kids out of a home for pot possession in the US. If that is factually true, it isn't enforced in any place I've ever lived. (Realizing I sound like a pothead here, and I have actually never smoked it. But, I have friends in law enforcement and social services. They have much bigger fish to fry.)

That being said, I wouldn't tolerate it my house and around my kid either. But, somehow the canoe needs both of you on board.

My final thought is escapism. . .the pot smoking reeks (pun intended) of escaping -- like the affair. It is an old habit sounds like, and may be very comforting. That, and it sounds like he has a hard time not doing it around these buddies. It is amazing how saying No even at 40 can be tough.

Your H needs to really understand how it makes you feel, to really see the distress it causes you. From other things you've said about him, I bet he can. Crossing my fingers.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 11:37 AM, April 14th (Monday)]

@bionicgal....if a search warrant is served and they find pot in the house and there are kids there, they arrest the parents for drug possession and CPS removes the children...at least, around here. I personally know of 2 different incidents(family members). The children were returned to the couple once bonded out. So, no, they aren't removed permanently, and they aren't always put in "the system"( in both cases the children were placed with a family member..me.) I can assure you it was traumatic for those children. In one case, mom and dad spent the long weekend in jail...the kids were terrified they wouldn't see them again, despite our reassurances.

So..it does happen.

As you said...pot smoke reeks. That is how one couple got in trouble. Neighbors called the police saying they could smell it..cops showed up...adults arrested, kids sent to Aunt Confused615's house.

It may not happen everywhere...or very often..but it is something to take into consideration.

[This message edited by confused615 at 11:50 AM, April 14th (Monday)]

Hi LA,

this is striking chords left, right and centre for me. I want to respond but I'm having trouble unraveling my thoughts on this.

First, he's doing so much right, right? I totally get that 30 rights doesn't make 1 wrong ok but... it's a process, right? I mean, he's been the way he was/is for almost 50 years, it seems reasonable (to me) that some things will take time to change.

Ugh. This isn't coming out how I mean it, I feel like I'm defending his actions, which I'm not as I too would be livid with my H smoking pot (especially near our kids) and not being up front about it. Actually, him doing it at all right now would be very difficult for me.

I guess what I'm saying is that my theory seems to always fall back to growth and change and learning. Can this bad choice of his be used to further his growth and your connection in your M? I think it's possible.

Talk. Talk. Talk. Listen. Share. Express. Receive. Discuss. And more.

My H and I had something similar happen recently and it triggered me hard. It didn't involve drugs or his A but it did involve his integrity. In the end I was able to explain how and why I felt what I did and he was able to listen and really hear. For me (and I really get that people differ on this) I can't do "lines in the sand" but I need him to understand where my integrity and needs lie and where his do and to have him dig deep and check whether he's following his integrity (which it turns out he wasn't). He remedied it today and such a huge weight has lifted off me. He did the really hard thing, was honest with a customer about the act of un-integrity (made up word?) and I feel close and loved but more important (to me) equal and valued.

If I'm making no sense, please disregard. I hate when I have a clear thought but can't get it out on "paper".

Hugs. I really hope this turns out to be a bump in the road that brings you closer and furthers your journey.

I stand corrected, confused615!

And like I said, I don't think it is ok to do it, but I do think that is crazy; poor kids.

The Shopper

#1

H (angry, after kids go to bed), LA, YOU have a shopping problem!

What? No I don’t!

Then what is with this Visa bill?

What Visa bill? What? Oh, that. Well, I just really liked those shoes. They made me happy. Can I not do something that I like to do without you making me feel like you’re my Dad?

Well maybe it would help if you weren’t so sneaky about it. It looks like there are more then just shoes here.

Oh yeah. I guess I bought a few other things.

We can’t have another charge like this! The bills in the latter half of the month are too high!

Okay! Okay! I hear what you are saying. Can we just not do this now?

#2

H (patient ie: safe environment, two months later)

LA? We need to talk. Can you talk to me about this charge?

What charge?

The Visa charge. It looks like you were out shopping.

Really? When? Are you sure? Let’s see? Hmmm….

(gently) Do you think you have a problem with shopping?

No. I really don’t.

Well, I am really concerned bc it seems to happen when you are stressed. It’s like you are trying to feel better. I just don’t even know where else to go with this.

Hon. Come on. There is no reason to be concerned. How often does this happen? A few times a year? Five or six at the most? It’s okay. Really! I do not have a problem!

I just ask you to let me know next time you do that bc I am doing my best to manage the finances.

Ok. Sorry about that.

Look. I want you to have nice things. I want you to have fun with your friends but I just feel like you are ignoring me.

#3

In MC’s office

H (calm but firm)

I am really at a loss as to what to do. I have asked LA repeatedly to stop using the card or to at least tell me when she does but she doesn’t. She is disregarding every request I make of her with this one issue. In fact, in all other areas she has stepped up. She’s great!

MC: LA, what would you like to say?

LA: Well. I just don’t know what the big deal is. I rarely shop. I mean. Who is this hurting? I admit I could have told him. He asked me to tell him and I didn’t. Next time, I will. I promise.

H: What would you tell the boys if they were doing this?

I guess I will cross that bridge when I come to it. I feel as if I am doing so many things right. I am a good Mom.

H: You ARE a good Mom. But this is hurting us. Your lack of attn. to this matter is hurting me.

MC. Let’s work out this boundary right now so that H doesn’t feel like the parent and LA the child. So that H feels more respected but LA still gets some shopping time as long as it doesn’t impact the family.

If you are going to use the Visa then please tell me when you do. And do not use the card between the 15-30th of the month. There are too many payments to be made and its too hard on our finances.

Agreed?

Agreed.

H: The card was used on the 17th and H was not told.

Yelling hasn’t helped.

Talking calmly hasn’t helped.

Talking calmly with an MC hasn’t helped.

This is clearly an issue for LA. And now it’s an issue for me as her H. I do not feel respected. I resent her for disregarding me time and again and I can’t stand to be around her right now. I was lied to for three years and now, lied to again.

Anyone else frustrated?

Hi all, this is a fictional account to demonstrate the route we have taken with the pot issue over the last 8.5 years. I know shopping is legal and pot isn’t. I know shopping doesn’t cause lack of motivation or memory issues, pot does. But for some, shopping fills a void. A quick fix. I have given three separate discussions above. You can multiply this by at least 4 to get an idea of how often this subject has come up over the past 8.5 years (at least 2x with a MC). Right now this is more about being deceitful and disrespectful.

Please note for those commenting about calling the police: Our house is NOT like a Cheech and Chong movie. My H does not own it. There is none in our house. I made a request about using it in/around our home. He broke it. He is intent on figuring this out once and for all. Yes he is doing so many things right and that is great but smoking pot at our home is not acceptable. Lying to me in not acceptable. Not at this stage.

If it is ever done in our house again, I am leaving and will file for D.

If he does it this year and does not tell me, I will seek a separation.

This isn’t rocket science.

[This message edited by LA44 at 7:47 PM, April 14th (Monday)]

Oh...I was just going to say something about the visa bill...lol

All you can control is L A . You put your needs out there see if he will meet them.

(((Hugs)))

The SHOPPER is spot on, in our case it is not pot smoking or shopping, it was GOLF NIGHT.

Many times we would agree that he would call or text if he was going to be out past an certain time. That time would pass and no call, no text, nor would he answer mine. He would come through the door and tell me so nonchalantly that they decided to golf 18 instead of 9 or that so-and-so bought a round at the bar so he had to stay or whatever.

I could never understand why he couldn't send a single text message that would take less than 15 seconds to let me know.

Now it has come to light that he is super conflict avoidant, he saw me as a parent and figured that I would disapprove of anything fun just like his dad did, so he choose to rebel.

I remember buying him an organizer early on in our marriage, thinking he was just disorganized and forgetful.

as for this sitch I wonder if he hadn't smoked pot when he came upstairs and had refused it, was his later smoking to piss you off? You should ask him what it was that made him change his no to a yes.

I will ask him. He wasn't mad at me at all. Like I said in my very first post - it wasn't a pot smell. It was a gross smell which made me ask, "what is that smell?" At the same time his friend went out to the car. So I think what happened was, He declined and then said, Yes and that is where his friend was going when I made the shirt smell comment. It was already in the works.

And as far as drawing a line, some people take it as you are making the rules and he can't have his say. I think when we are in R and creating a new marriage we have to be clear on our needs.

That is why I wrote that exhausting Shopper bit To show how extensively we have talked about this. We have been through this. What he wants. What I want. How we can come to a place of agreement. We did this in MC. We did come to that place. He broke it. Twice.

Also, you know when you almost get into a car accident so you tell yourself, "OKAY. PAY attention now bc that was close!"

In some ways I feel as if that was what the shirt smell comment was. He hadn't yet smoked but his friend was going out to the car to get it for him. I made that comment bc his shirt did smell. That would be like almost hitting the car in front of you. A near miss! A chance to do better.

He missed the stop sign in that moment and went barreling through.

He needs to start asking himself some hard questions.

[This message edited by LA44 at 6:19 PM, April 14th (Monday)]

Ilinia, he is a golfer too!

Here is what he would do before D-Day.

He would make plans to golf with the guys on say, Sunday at 10am. Then he would say, "How would you feel about me golfing on Sunday?"

Did you already book the tee time?

Yes.

Then I guess it doesn't really matter how I feel. You made your decision.

See a pattern? This is what I want, so I am going to do it. Apply is to pot. Apply it to the A.

However...he didn't do this once last golf season AND he was in touch when he was going to be late. Sending a text is easy. You deserve it. I deserve it!

[This message edited by positively4thst at 9:45 PM, April 15th (Tuesday)]

A crap aside, I hate being the "parent" in the relationship. To teenagers, parents are unfair, don't understand and are too controlling. Why the F would someone want to be that to their spouse??

We talked about this a little in MC but I think we need to explore it more because I still feel this way sometimes.

LA-I think you handled this as best as any person could. It's beyond time for him to step up with this piece. He needs to figure out why pot is so important that he would disregard what is a perfectly reasonable request. You didn't ask him to quit, you put boundaries on it.

They will try to manipulate you to think it is you, not them. They get pleasure in seeing you crack

I am sorry if this is the case in your sitch positively but its not the case in mine. He is not a sadist...doesn't enjoy seeing me crack/in pain. He is selfish though and bc of that he has caused me pain.

and

If you have given a S.O. the opportunity to deal with an issue you have with one of their friends and things don't change, you need to step up to deal with the situation.

See. This isn't between me and his friend. This is my H's issue and he needs to deal with it. And he acknowledged that today in an email. NoGoodUserName wrote a good post on friends and boundaries in a note on page 2.

LA-I think you handled this as best as any person could. It's beyond time for him to step up with this piece. He needs to figure out why pot is so important that he would disregard what is a perfectly reasonable request. You didn't ask him to quit, you put boundaries on it.

Thank you AML. It is beyond time.

And now...its time for me to find some sleep.

Thanks all for your feedback, comments and questions.

You seem to have an answer (well thought out) for everything we are offering...but still struggle in your situation? Why be here then? Are you venting or looking for insight?