SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm looking for people's advice that never got closure and never got a confession. My ex fiancée refuses to admit he's cheated even though it's painfully obvious. He's claimed their just friends, he's shady with his phone, he changes his passwords all the time, he turns his phone off, he's had the love you but not in love with you talk, I found Viagra in his car at he house at 1am, the list goes on and on. He still says that he's just stressed and needs to focus on himself and needs to make himself happy before he can work on anything else.

I'm so envious of all these BS that have gotten a full disclosure with all the details. I feel like I need that to move on. I feel like I am driving myself crazy wondering what's true and what's not. How do I move on without that key piece of the grieving puzzle? Please anyone with any advice on this is greatly appreciated. The fact that he's not admitting anything and not sorry and acting so heartless is killing me inside!

I'm in the same boat. DDay was April 10 followed by TT. He was desperately trying to speak to me in person and after five days of NC I sent him an email telling him to tell me the whole truth if he wanted a conversation. He wrote back with more TT. After more days of NC, he seems to have given up and I am left feeling empty that I'll never get the confession and remorse I want. I know that I don't want to speak to him if he continues to lie, but I just have so much anger to vent and want so much to hear the truth. I feel all I can do is come to accept that that may never happen. And it sucks. Its a continuation of the betrayal and selfishness. I hope that I am doing the right thing. I'm sorry I can't give better advice.

I understand your need for the truth. But step back a bit. Is he considering your needs? Is he being loving? Is he being trustworthy? Given that his behavior shows a lack of love for you and a great deal of selfishness, isn't that enough, in the end, to know that you are better off without him, and with a person who can make you feel safe and cared for?

By the sounds of it, you haven't had a true d-day yet. The real d-day is the day you have proof, irrefutable proof that there is no denying. Yes, I think you're certainly dealing with a cheater, but until you confront him with cold hard evidence, it's really (to him) just you nagging and getting into his business. But you're calling him your ex, so are you even together anymore? If so, it's time to do your homework, and there are other members here who are better able to give you advice about that, but two common means are a VAR (voice activated recorder) in his vehicle and a keylogger on his computer. There are countless other ways too. In the meantime, drop it and pretend like you were just hormonal so he lets his guard down.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It is hell. Please don't get the idea that all WS's instantly become remorseful, faithful spouses at the moment of discovery. Yes, they freak out, but often they run straight for the AP. It takes time for them to come out of their fog. Take time to read the Healing Library, get some investigative tips from members who have a clue about those things (not me!), and also learn about the 180, which will be an important tool for you.

((Desirelily))

Devastated23 you are so strong to have been able to do the NC without getting a confession. That is awesome. I am going to try desperately hard to not reach out, lash out, or contact him period. I have got to dig deep and put the 180 in full effect.

Thanks norabird and naivewife for your words and advice. I call him my ex because the day I saw his car at her house with Viagra in it he packed a u-haul and moved out. He said he couldn't live like this and needed time to focus on himself. I did have a key logger on our home computer but he always uses his laptop and I only have access to his work email where I've only found one email from him to her, today actually, while he was flying to Florida he said hi. That's all. I assume he always uses his phone to contact her but since he was flying his options were limited. His only bank account I'm on and he takes out cash, he doesn't ever use his card for individual purchases. He has his own apartment already now so the investigation is over really. I want so badly to have that closure but I fear I will never get it.

Why would the other woman say they are just friends too to me but then text me things like what we do in private is between him and I? What does she gain from saying they are just friends but then say she can't help me and that I need to talk to him? Is she just as sick as he is and gets off on torturing me and driving me crazy too?

Desirelily,

Trust me when I tell you the Truth doesn't set you free. I had such TT for so long I don't believe a word coming out of my WH's mouth. Of course most of my truth came from OW's husband. My WH is too much of a coward.

My advice is to RUN. IF you are sure (and if you are here, I'm pretty sure you're right on) trust your instincts and get out before it's too late. An A will linger in your relationship with that person no matter how good it gets. It's hard to unring a bell.

Does anyone know how to get phone records it you are not on the account?..

((((Desirelily)))

I know your pain.

I had to do a hard 180 and unfortunately, I had to leave to get FWH to pull his head from his ass and finally give me the truth. It was not an easy or quick road, lots of IC/MC, but we are reconciled and doing well (I am 7 years out from D-day #2).

My profile is long, but tells the whole story.

hugs....

Meh. I never had a 'smoking gun,' either. I didn't need one. The CONSTANT lying, the utter disrespect, the complete lack of concern for my emotional and mental welfare, and the constant red flags popping up and waving was all I needed to move on.

The lying had gotten SO bad that he couldn't even remember the lies he'd already told, and was tripping himself up telling me conflicting information. I actually laughed right in his face one time because a couple of weeks before I moved out of his place, he mentioned that the OW was now dating her ex boyfriend. The day before I moved out, I mentioned something about the OW and her ex now dating again and he looked at me like I had two heads and asked, "where in the hell did you get THAT from?" I told him, "YOU told me that - just two weeks ago!!" He told me I imagined it and that he'd never told me that. Obviously, he'd made this claim during one of his many attempts to convince me to stay and not leave him (which I didn't fall for). I guess he thought claiming she was involved with her ex would convince me these two chuckle-heads weren't in cohoots anymore.

So I told him, "well, it's official, asshat. You've now told SO many freakin' lies at this point that you don't even remember which ones you've told me, anymore! Do you have ANY idea how pathetic you are?" I couldn't move out of his house fast enough.

Anyway, right now, you feel compelled to obssess over finding that smoking gun because it gives you some kind of focus to hone in on with all this choas surrounding you. But as time moves on and you're a little farther away from all the pain and craziness, you'll probably find that the smoking gun was NOT nearly as vital to you as it seems today.

I never got a confession and I certainly never got closure.

I won't bore you with all of the details, but my exwh, out of the blue, gave me the "love you but not in love with you speech". He could have knocked me over with a feather at that point. We had just bought our new "dream" house about six months before that and our youngest was only 2 years old. I tried everything I could think of to get him to talk to me, and to act like the guy that I had married. But, it was like living with an alien.

There were rumors about him and another woman. I asked to his face at least 1,000 times if there was someone else, if he was having an affair, if he loved someone else, if he was thinking he might be gay - anything. I wanted some sort of answer besides, I just don't love you anymore. That made no sense to me. He denied it all.

I knew in my heart that there was someone else, but I couldn't bring myself to snoop. I knew that whatever was out there waiting for me to see, I could never un-see it. I wasn't strong enough for that.

He moved out a few months later, still under the guise of falling out of love with me. Oddly enough, he also sat on the fence for a few months even after moving out. I told him I would file for divorce because it seemed like he just couldn't pull the trigger and he told me no. He even made an MC appointment.

Sadly, the night before the first scheduled appointment, my best friend called me to tell me that he was spotted out with the very person who he was rumored to be with. That was it. I called him the next day and he still never admitted anything except that they had "just started seeing each other".

That was what I got. After 15 years of marriage and 2 little kids, I thought I deserved so much more. Even if we were going to get divorced, I thought I at least deserved one honest conversation and an apology. I got nothing. I was forced to end my marriage without really knowing the details of why.

It's taken me a very long time to process that and to acknowledge that I'll never get what I once desperately wanted. It's been over 3 years and lots of IC and I finally see that he's just too weak and too afraid and too narcissistic to let down all of those masks and to acknowledge what he did to me and our family. I'm his emotional mirror and he hates when I hold it up. He runs from me even though we don't fight, our divorce was pretty amicable compared to others, he sees the kids regularly, pays CS, and he even lives with OW now. I don't push back on a whole lot because, as long as my children are not being hurt or abused, I have no leg to stand on. He left; we're divorced. The reason he left or whether he really wanted to go or wanted to stay but was afraid of getting caught - those issues don't matter much any more.

What matters is that you find closure within yourself. You have to see him for what he is and see that people who can cheat, lie, and avoid are usually people who can't/won't stand up and fight. They are usually people who are much better at running away.

I know that somewhere inside my ex's soul, he realizes what he did and he realizes that he broke my heart and our kids' hearts into a thousand pieces. There is a part of him who gets that. There is also a big part of him who never wants to think about it again. He is more comfortable avoiding the hurt and, in the beginning, he was more comfortable being very cold to me so that he could keep his mind in that place. A while ago, during one of our rare phone conversations, I said to him that I know he avoids me because he's afraid if he talks to me or sees me he will actually have to remember me. His answer was "I know. I do that."

Your ex is acting heartless because it's easier than to come clean. You can't force him and, while your brain will come to understand it one day, your heart never will. It's non-sense and it's impossible to make sense out of non-sense. I think it's a special brand of hurt when you are dealing with a non-remorseful wayward who runs away. It's a true abandonment that leaves us with no chance to fight. I always say it's as if my mother or my father turned on me. I never thought my husband would turn on me like that and, I suppose that a part of me figured if he did, he would at least want to fight for me.

I'm sorry that you have to experience this pain too. I would suggest finding a good IC to help you process and to not rely on him to give you what you need. That will eventually only come from you.

Tell him to give you the phone, unlocked before he erases crap or get the shit out.

You are in limbo land because you are putting up with way too much.

Since a month from Dday...I had full transparency (found this site too late and didn't think I had the right to his phone)

Hire a PI to follow him.

Suckstobeme I really relate to your story and appreciate you sharing. I know that deep down my ex knows how much of a coward he is too. I know that if he admits it to me then it's real and he's never been good at facing reality. I'm sure when he's with her it's fun and a distraction but I know when he's alone in his apartment he thinks about me and the dogs and probably wonders what happened. He has to have moments of clarity that he misses me and everything I gave to him and everything we worked for. I'm sure that, that's followed by him conning someone else into doing those things for him but it's not the same as me.

I have peace right now only in the fact that I did nothing wrong. I'm a smart, successful, beautiful person with a kind heart and I did everything in my power to make this relationship work day in and day out so I sleep at night, the little amount of sleep I get is peaceful at least because I was amazing to him.

Spot on! Now, if you ever doubt that...which you will...come back and read that again.

You are a beautiful person inside and out. Those two are going to be so lonely in their golden years. They all regret their wayward sides then.

My tag line used to be "Chin up princess, because your crown is falling."