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I don't think you get it, saveus. Divorce proceedings take some time to come to fruition. The plug can be pulled on the proceedings at any time. It is not an option of 1. 180 and 2. divorce.

Your WW will not "come around". She has proven that. The 180 is for you and not to force her to "come around". Starting divorce proceedings is for you. It is to protect you and your DS. By doing that your WW may fall off the fence or may not. She may fall on one side or the other. Your WW may already have made contact with a lawyer. Her POS OM has experience in these matters. I am concerned you are already too late. Starting D proceedings is not to "manipulate" her. It is to protect you and DS. Starting divorce proceedings does not mean the divorce decree will be issued. If your WW starts the proceedings it will be, though.

Ted

No, I DO get it steadychevy. I said exactly that only a few posts before. I knew someone would pick me up on that - my bad wording, that's all. I also have REPEATEDLY said that I know the 180 is for me and not to manipulate my WW. Honestly, many, many times.

The one thing I may have missed though is your last point. Can you explain? Maybe I'm misreading you.

Thanks Badhurt. Just leaving work. Will respond properly later.

We argued last night. Or rather I let her get under my skin and gave her a few choice words/home truths. Yes, I failed again. But here I am, back on the horse... I re-read that letter and will consider giving it to her (timing is everything).

What letter are you talking about...the one you wrote or the one from the Healing Library here, Joseph's Letter?

Timing doesn't matter with these types of people. It is like waiting for the right time to quit smoking, that right time never really comes. There is always something getting in the way of the right time.

Stop waiting for any right times.

Do not give her anything you have written, I promise you, she will not believe a word out of your mouth. But she very well could believe words from other people.

That is why books like Not Just Friends help WS's so much. A WS doesn't want to and or cannot believe what their BS tells them. But they might be shocked when they see the very same words from a total stranger.

There is absolutely no reason to talk to her anymore. She will never tell you the truth until she gets it. And she apparently has no desire to get it.

She has all of these excuses to lie to you about everything including 1999, she already told you her excuses of you can't get over it etc.

Excuses are all those are and those excuses comfort her, they keep her mind nice and safe knowing lying is the right thing to do.

There is no point to talk to her at all anymore until she goes to IC and finally gets it.

Saveus, the point by steadychevy is that if your WW files before you, your M is completely over. Period. If you file first, you may be able to save it. Has to do with psychology, sense of control, perception of strength, attractiveness. Remember that a core issue with many a human is wanting what they can't have or have lost - not what they have thrown away.

sitting at the centre of all this it's less clear what would be the bigger mistake.

Either choice will bring you temporary pain.

If you're honest, that means there is no "good" choice ... but there is most definitely a "right" choice, a scary choice.

Speaking for myself, the easy choice has always led me to more pain and more ambivalence. The hard choice felt like it might be the death of me ... but here I am.

Thanks MC_Jack, that makes perfect sense and is something I've been aware of. More pressure, but a very good point.

@Jduff: I think I agree about the CAB advice however I had much the same from a second solicitor a few hours ago*. I do agree that sitting back isn't the answer. Making a stand is. But when that stand is to start divorce proceedings, I WILL NOT BE RUSHED. The 180, however, can go into overdrive

The problem is, you've inched away all of your credibility in drawing the line in the sand. I don't know how divorce process in the UK works, but if there is a way to get to a point where all the necessary requirements are out of the way and the only thing you need to do is pull the trigger to finalize it, then you need to get to that position.

You decide what your breaking point is that determines if the trigger is pulled. Between now and then you put the onus of saving the M on your WW. She'll know the clock is ticking and she can't simply sit on her derriere and "wish" the whole situation away.

steadychevy is right. If she filed first then she is in control all the way through to the bitter end. This is about protecting you and your child now. Let the burden of saving the M fall on your WW.

If she filed first then she is in control all the way through to the bitter end.

If Saveus really doesn't have the money to hire a lawyer and file the actual divorce, where is the wife going to get the money?

After saying that, it is a concern you should be very aware of Saveus.

Thanks, too, MC_Jack. I just came back to the thread. That is what I was getting at and I see that saveus has picked it up as well.

I need your help

My WW went out last night with a close (gay) friend. I wasn't happy - I think she should be home trying to sort our M but anyway - but, as you know by now, there's not much I could do to stop her except chain her to the front door.

I even gave her a lift - I know, start hitting me over the head now.

Long story short... She text me at 11.30 (in reply to a text from me - not off her own back but I suppose I should be grateful she replies at all) to say she was having fun with her 'best friend' and that she didn't know when she'd be back or how she'd get back.

If you've been following my story, you'll know this is far from abnormal behaviour in our M.

So, reluctantly as ever, I went to bed and slept from around midnight until 2am when I woke up to find my WW wasn't back. I went downstairs, half expecting her to be sitting on the sofa, crying (or on her phone, one or the other).

I called her. No reply. I text. No answer. I called again. Either the second or third time she picked up. She was clearly heavily under the influence. She claimed she was walking home - from a city a good 5 or 6 miles away where the direct route is all country lanes with no lighting and no pavement to walk on. Oh, and a train line to cross halfway along.

As I could get no sense out of her, I called the non-emergency police number (101). They sent a car out to look for her and, while I was answering lots of questions (after about 15 minutes), she turned up.

She claimed a 'good Samaritan' called 'Steve' picked her up halfway home and gave her a lift back.

This obviously led to an argument. Not overly heated (our DS is still fast asleep upstairs, thank God) but I was basically saying to her, 'do you think this is normal behaviour for a 37-year-old married woman???', 'I was worried about you' etc etc. To which back came the usual crap about being controlled/she's still her own (single) person. In the end she gave me (reluctantly) her phone to check who she'd called (not before she deleted two numbers from her recent calls list right in front of me). When I refused to give it back until I'd checked her emails (I at least saw the OM had emailed her yesterday, I think it was - news to me - though also apparently 'confirmed' she hasn't text him back for a week or two) she became violent. We have never had a violent relationship. Yes, we've argued. Yes, I've been known to throw one or two things, out of sheer frustration (no excuse). But tonight she flipped. She's slightly taller than me, not large but strongly built, and she manhandled me around the living room, pushing and shoving me, shouting, 'give me my phone!', until she punched me - hard - in the side of the neck. She then grabbed our DS's toy lightsaber and threatened to smash our computer up unless I handed back her phone. She proceeded to whack the screen two or three times, leaving clear marks. I controlled myself extremely well under EXTREME provocation. I went into the kitchen to try to get away from her (she was getting more and more unhinged). She followed me and whacked me across the lower back (I was in a state of undress, having got straight out of bed at 2am), leaving clear, raised red marks across my back.

So, eventually I had to relent and I gave her phone back. She went out onto the front driveway, in the pitch black, and supposedly called the police (she was ranting a load of lies about me she was going to tell them). So I did the same. I called 999 and two officers were round within ten minutes.

Whilst waiting for them to arrive, my WW sat on our bed claiming to be on the phone to the OM - ironic, seeing as I saw further evidence just last evening that she DID finish with him that Tuesday, and that she hasn't contacted him since. I have no idea if she was even on the phone to ANYBODY, so good has her acting become. She was loudly saying down the phone that she had done 'absolutely nothing wrong', and telling a load of lies about me. I did my best to ignore. I am inclined to think she was play acting as I did shout one thing about the A, and she didn't flinch - either there was no-one there or it WAS the OM.

As I alleged domestic violence to the officers, they saw the marks on my back (oh, and my smashed iPhone which my WW threw against the wall), they made it clear they had no choice but to take my WW to the station, which is where she is right now. The officers are coming back in an hour (so, probably half an hour from now) to explain to me what is going on, and to see how I want to proceed.

Whilst the police were here, my WW was shouting things like, 'see, you've done it now', 'they're going to take our boy away now' etc. She accused me of orchestrating the whole thing - she almost insinuated that I was acting on advice (who from, a solicitor, the CAB????????) and getting her into trouble so that any D pans out better for me.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I am sitting her, beside myself that I may have made a huge mistake. The police have NEVER been called round here. Neither my WW nor I have any kind of record, nor have we ever been in trouble with the authorities before.

What have I done??? When I was calling 999, I felt like - for ONCE - I was taking control. I was saying, 'enough is enough'. But I'm well aware that I am the man here, and that my WW - in the state she's in, fueled tonight by drink - could tell a whole pack of lies about me, her husband of seven years and the father of her beloved son. Someone who has TRIED to forgive her, TRIED to move us on, TRIED to make her see there IS a way forward.......

I just remembered, as she was forcing me backwards, bending my back over our dining room table, trying to grab her phone, I extricated myself (using minimal force) and something in her left hand clicked. She made an absolute drama out of it (though seemed to forget about it five minutes later), claiming I'd broken her wrist or something.

I feel so depressed And now worried sick about the repercussions of tonight. The ONLY glimmer of home I can see is if SOMEHOW she could now be MADE to go to counselling/therapy.

Then again, the police could be on their way back to arrest me, and take our beautiful boy into temporary care

I'm not making excuses - but this is COMPLETELY out of character for her. COMPLETELY. Her strength, grabbing hold of my arms and shoving me around, I have never felt before.

What the hell have I done?????

Saveus

I honestly do not know what anyone can say to help you. I honestly and sincerely think you need therapy. More than she does because you are the one taking all the abuse not her.

It is just beyond me how you can still want to be in the same county or province as her. Now on top of everything else she has the police in your home.

Can this be good for your son???

How is your son? Is he alright?

Hi saveus. I'm here right now as well. What's going on at the moment?

Been a while saveus. You have done nothing wrong.

As I could get no sense out of her, I called the non-emergency police number (101). They sent a car out to look for her and, while I was answering lots of questions (after about 15 minutes), she turned up.

Awesome, you were worried about a heavily intoxicated spouse and did the only thing you could with DS in the house.

But tonight she flipped. She's slightly taller than me, not large but strongly built, and she manhandled me around the living room, pushing and shoving me, shouting, 'give me my phone!', until she punched me - hard - in the side of the neck. She then grabbed our DS's toy lightsaber and threatened to smash our computer up unless I handed back her phone. She proceeded to whack the screen two or three times, leaving clear marks. I controlled myself extremely well under EXTREME provocation. I went into the kitchen to try to get away from her (she was getting more and more unhinged). She followed me and whacked me across the lower back (I was in a state of undress, having got straight out of bed at 2am), leaving clear, raised red marks across my back.

Physical violence is NEVER an acceptable answer. Here in the States, once the police have been called, there will be a report and usually a hearing. Whatever the case over there, DO NOT FAIL TO PRESS CHARGES. She needs help. You cannot be the one to provide it. YOU are her TARGET! Every evil ever perpetrated in the world is the result of your actions. You need to be away from her.

Whilst the police were here, my WW was shouting things like, 'see, you've done it now', 'they're going to take our boy away now' etc. She accused me of orchestrating the whole thing - she almost insinuated that I was acting on advice (who from, a solicitor, the CAB????????) and getting her into trouble so that any D pans out better for me.

See what I mean?

What have I done??? When I was calling 999, I felt like - for ONCE - I was taking control. I was saying, 'enough is enough'. But I'm well aware that I am the man here, and that my WW - in the state she's in, fueled tonight by drink - could tell a whole pack of lies about me, her husband of seven years and the father of her beloved son.

You did exactly the RIGHT thing. She has FINALLY shown you exactly what she thinks and feels about you. Do NOT give her the excuse of *It was the drink*. Brother, you have a chance to save yourself and your son. Follow through with charges. She will drink again, will your DS be safe around that type of anger?

I'm not making excuses - but this is COMPLETELY out of character for her. COMPLETELY. Her strength, grabbing hold of my arms and shoving me around, I have never felt before.

Yes you are. Honestly, it's very common for the victims of domestic abuse to do so. Stop it. She has shown you who she is. BELIEVE her. What will she do next? Throat punch? That's delivered with the intent to do serious physical damage. What will she escalate to next? A knife? Get away from crazy.

Lawyer in the morning. No choice now. Protect yourself.

I'm sorry.

BTW, is there a domestic abuse hotline or shelter you can contact? Do so, now.

when are you going to stand up for yourself?

i don't post on your thread anymore because I can't stand to see you abused and you take it. you agree with posters here. you say, yes, that's what I intend. yes, i agree. I'll get around to it. I just need to know for certain. I don't really know. I know what I need to do. but i don't have the money. blah, blah, blah.

i'm sorry you're going through this. I really am. It's excruciating to watch. you don't deserve it. you're a good guy. but you have to stand up for yourself. your WW is really a POS. Maybe she wasn't in the past. She is now. And you being a nice guy isn't going to help things. get rid of her.

Oh saveus..... You have done nothing wrong. If you truly think you may have hurt her, then you need to stress to were trying to get away from her

Please, please, please don't find excuses for her.

If you do, you are saying my mum had excuses to hit me while she was drunk too.

Please, please, please protect you and your little boy.

Don't let him grow up like this.

Hi saveus.

Your wife is exhibiting abusive behavior toward you.

You are also showing sings of being a victim of abuse.

Your actions earlier -- calling 999 was absolutely the correct thing to do. Feeling like this is somehow your fault is a symptom of being a victim of abuse.

I felt like - for ONCE - I was taking control. I was saying, 'enough is enough'.

You were! That's fantastic! I'm so glad you were able to do that!

Look man, if the zombie apocalypse hit, and your wife was infected, and came stumbling through the door -- you would defend your home. Yes you're going to feel conflicted about it because its your wife, but it's the right thing to do.

Maybe she wasn't a zombie , but your wife was a threat to you and your home. You absolutely, without any doubt, made the 100% correct decision. I have a lot of confidence that you can make a lot of great decisions. Keep it up!

Somehow caught 35 mins sleep until DS woke up at 6.50.

Now worried if my WW did call the OM at 3am, what he could now be planning. I don't believe they've been in touch but if last night she did call him, he could really be her KISA now and I'd expect him to be putting wheels in motion.

I know I cannot afford to be left behind. I saw a solicitor only yesterday and now wish I'd instructed them.

It's the weekend now. Can I afford to wait until Monday??

Nope.

Beg, borrow or plead. You need legal advice. Find a way.