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her reaction seems strange. Remember when she was still planning on her little tryst and she texted you how happy she was?

You stopped the tryst, she admitted that her friend was toxic and that things were messed up, but NOW she seems to have a problem with you and wants time alone?

That's not what normally happens. That's why a couple of people are wondering if she is still in contact with the Canadian. She seems to still be getting reinforcement to be confused.

Normally when NC is established a wayward rapidly realizes their mistake and at least begins to regret their actions, if not starting to feel remorse.

Suddenly, your WW seems to be questioning her love for you. Doesn't seem right.

Rush nurse gave you good woman's insight. I know you are drained but don't weaken and accept what she does by saying if she wants to keep communicating with guy from Canada she probably can find a way. YOU made it clear that that was a deal breaker and you need to keep telling her that on every conversation that you are not going to sit back and let her explore that relationship.

I again apologize for harping on this but we still have no information on what further info you got about what really happened in Mexico. I do not believe she could be in this state over a kiss and some texts that you intercepted. Have you pressed her on that. Again, the toxic gf is ten hours away. Are there any closer that you are aware of who probably know what occurred. If you know these people I think you are at the point to call ALL of their husbands to let them know what happened. The one who did not care is probably the only one. Most men would want to know if their spouses are going on trips with cheaters and friends on open marriages. By threatening to do this and possibly ruin some of her friendships you may force a full honest disclosure from her to avoid that.

You are not going to nice her back. If she moves out file for D. It does not happen automatically so you still would have time.

You cannot let her go off and live the single life and make you plan B

I have pushed the "kiss" a lot and really think that the make out session was all that happened. After reading certain texts from her and her GF, I don't think anything else happened. Now, after she got back, they were sexting and sending images, which is why the guy was going to be willing to drive down, because it was clear something would have happened.

I have pushed every day to see if she has heard from him or if she reached out since the NC, but she keeps saying no.

Hoosier

I do not think your wife is being totally honest with you.

Her reason to separate is not a codependency issue.

I think she needs the separation to see if she misses you.

I think she needs to think , to see if she wants to continue being married to you.

I know you are hurting. I know you feel this is the worst situation to find yourself in.

The key is to take this time of separation and turn it into a positive experience for yourself.

I always tell a loyal, loving spouse this:

Stop thinking of your lying, cheating spouse. They are only thinking of themselves at this time.

It happens.

You cannot control them. You cannot issue ultimatums and think they will obey them in their irrational minds.

So put the focus on where you can create a positive outcome.

Focus on yourself.

Because in the end, no matter whether you R or D you deserve to be happy.

And you deserve to be with someone that is happy with themselves.

You deserve to be with someone that loves you and respects you as much as they love and respect themselves.

So let her go.

And focus on yourself while she is gone.

Be strong. Be positive and make yourself be happy without her.

HM

She told me last night that she "loves" me, but doesn't know if she really loves me any longer

The ILUBINILWU (I love you but I'm not in love with you) speech is on page 2 of the Cheaters Manual (just kidding, there really isn't a Cheater's Manual, its just that altho details may vary, they all say the same things & behave the same way.) Most cheaters say ILUBINILWU at some point in their affair.

Her saying that tells me that either she is still in the A, or at least is still in the Fog.

IU Hoosier, if you haven't read these 3 links, you need to:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/fog.asp

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/signs.asp

(see # 21)

Sending you strength

Something is keeping the foggy thinking alive

I agree with this.

Her I love you yes but I love you not statement could also be some defensive posture to make her wrongs into rights. But if that were true, she would have used it as a past excuse.

I would say someone is making her think this way. Maybe the toxic GF.

I am wondering if the guy from Canada is a misdirection now and there is not some other guy. WS can be very good at misdirection, making the BS concentrate and focus on just one thing when it is actually someone else entirely.

I think if you do need answers at this time, you will have to find them yourself with snooping. See who the heck she really is talking with.

IUHoosier

Craig just got it right also. She is Most likely NOT on a forum like this. SOMEONE is encouraging this unless she is such a loner that you believe she is talking to no one. If she is not in contact with Canadian, then she is still talking to her open marriage friend or another girlfriend.

You do need to do more electronic snooping and stop relying on what she is telling you.

You may want to read the "20-20 Hindsight" thread here. Pure gold from someone who has been there done that.

Your wife is in "vacation fantasy romance land" which may be even worse then "fantasy romance land". Why is it worse you say? because she met some dude on vacation surrounded by palm trees, oceans, all you can eat dinners, sunsets, free drinks and tans.

Ya, on the beach this guy is a real rockstar. Can tell her ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING she wants to hear. "Im the president of google" (meanwhile he passes by google HQ once a week on his way to pick up his welfare cheque), "I own 20 houses" (speak for: I live with my parents still in their home), "I live in Canada" (speak for I'm kind of transient and live on whose ever couch is empty at the time), "I'm single" (speak for I'm married with twins and a wife at home thinking I'm on a golfing trip with the boys.), "I vacation three times a year and would love it if we vacationed together for the rest of our lives", (speak for my parents bought me this trip to get me out of the house and off their couch), OH and the CLINCHER: "You're the most beautiful girl here...I can't take my eyes off of you" (speak for: DANG all of these girls are SMOKIN' in Mexico, I'd bang every single one of them, but right now you're giving me the time of day so...")

So easy for him to sell her the world cause she has no clue really where the guy even lives. He could say he's from Canada but meanwhile he's Mexican looking for a way out of the country. Once again, I digress (Sorry I'm angry today, not a good day for advice giving maybe).

But hear what I have to say from the angry one (me). If she wants a separation it's to figure out where this is going with the Canuck. Plain and simple. The best thing you can do is to act quickly and kick her ass out. Reverse this on her. If she leaves she will think she's in control and you could turn into a lost puppy. But if you kick her out before she can leave then you gain control of the situation. As crazy as it sounds, you will feel better to have controlled her leaving vs her controlling it.

She wants Canada? Go see Canada. (Canada is beautiful by the way, I'm from Canada). But tell her to go. Where is this thing going to go really? The more though you let it continue the more she will think she's attached to this probable loser because it's a vacation romance and was so perfect under the moon and stars and sunsets. Throw her off the warm sandy beach and into the cold ocean where she will sober up quickly.

[This message edited by Broken1Again at 11:19 AM, May 20th (Tuesday)]

Broken, I knew you were Canadian even,before you said so since you spelled "check" wrong.

BTW, you sound like the voice of experience with Mexican vacations and how to impress women.

Broken, I knew you were Canadian even,before you said so since you spelled "check" wrong.

Funny...I thought the same thing about how you have spelled "Cheque".

BTW, you sound like the voice of experience with Mexican vacations and how to impress women.

Haha...No I just know how vulnerable women can be especially when on vacation seeing as I am a woman and have had guys try and manipulate me, my friends etc... my friend's marriage went up in smoke due to a "vacation" romance. His wife went to Brazil, met a guy from Brazil who said he was moving to Canada. They struck up a conversation, she ended up leaving my friend for this guy, who turns out was only going to move to Canada with her "help". Needless to say that went up in smoke. My other friend's common law gf went to Cuba met a Soldier, came back from Cuba, told my friend she needed to go to Cuba again for some reason. (Weird...two vacays in a month). Said he couldn't come when he asked, cause her gf needed her. Meanwhile she was meeting this guy, who turns out was/is married. My friend searched her computer when she left for trip two and found out what she was up to, FB'ed the dudes name and my friend was the one to deliver the news to his Common law that her "KISA" was/is married.

Anyways, I digress...I've seen it happen more times than I care to remember. It's such an easy way to make someone into a SuperKISA because the atmosphere is romantic. It's not real.

[This message edited by Broken1Again at 7:15 PM, May 20th (Tuesday)]

We talked again tonight about the separate living arrangements for a week or two and she agreed that wouldn't be the best thing right now.

Please let me know if the below sounds familiar to anybody. I'm trying to figure out if this is a step that happens after the affair "play book" or if this is specific to my situation.

My wife said tonight that she didn't know if she loved me and that she didn't think her feelings for the other guy was just some fling. She says there was something more there then just the excitement of something new. She said she could tell this guy stuff. Is that her just trying to justify everything to herself. I was Just was wondering if this is something that others have heard while going through it.

My wife said tonight that she didn't know if she loved me and that she didn't think her feelings for the other guy was just some fling. She says there was something more there then just the excitement of something new. She said she could tell this guy stuff. Is that her just trying to justify everything to herself. I was Just was wondering if this is something that others have heard while going through it.

Horse Shit Fantasy Talk!!!

What is she 16 years old?

She's still in the affair!

180 time, lawyer time.

My wife said tonight that she didn't know if she loved me and that she didn't think her feelings for the other guy was just some fling. She says there was something more there then just the excitement of something new. She said she could tell this guy stuff.

I got the same from mine, almost verbatim. They aren't very creative, that's for sure. I also got the whole "we just kissed and did some feeling through the clothes" line. I wanted to believe it so badly but it was also a lie.

Of course he acted like he wanted to hear her "stuff." He wanted to have sex with her!!

To save the marriage you have to be willing to end it.

Boy the old rationalization hamster is going into overdrive here.

If she is this checked out file I mean WTF!

She said she could tell this guy stuff. Is that her just trying to justify everything to herself. I was Just was wondering if this is something that others have heard while going through it.

If you want to get laid in the single world, you learn to listen. That's the secret to endless sex... make people feel they can tell you stuff.

So, yeah, we've all heard this. Marriage can be difficult because it's sometimes hard to come up with something new to say. We don't feel vibrant because of what's within us. If we're stuck, we don't recognize it's our own problem. We view it as a problem with who we're with instead.

She's frustrated because she wants change, but has no idea what change she wants. With Canadian Dude, she feels good because all her ideas are new to him.

Can you get out of this? Well, she's going to listen to you now. So you have to convince her that she's interesting. That there are still ways she can experience life and tell you about it and feel good about herself when she shares this new information.

This isn't an easy road. She may need a new profession, or a hobby that really excites her. The usual stuff isn't working. Honestly, I think marriage counseling could work wonders for both of you.

i guess you have to give her a choice.

It's unacceptable for her to "try out" this other guy while still married to you.

So she either has to file for divorce or she has to start trying to rebuild the trust she broke.

She can't have both, which is what she wants. She wants some sort of trial separation so she can screw him while having you as a backup. This is unacceptable.

It also makes me wonder whether it was just a "kiss."

How is it possible to compare a partner of 9 years, spouse of 5 years, with someone she just "kissed" once?

i don't know. After all this, and her now saying that she's not certain she loves you? Pretty disrespectful. And remember, you had to find this all out yourself. She was going to have her little fling without you knowing.

Is this someone you still want to be married to? I think if my WW said she didn't love me anymore I'd hand her divorce papers.

for some reason these people think they're the only ones with choices. She's acting like she is the only one who has a choice to make. She doesn't realize you have a choice too. You may not choose to be with someone who is acting like she is now. In reality, you're the only one who has a reason to choose. She's the one who's acting outside of the marriage. I suggest taking the choice from her. File for divorce. Tell her you're not sure you're in love with someone who isn't sure they're in love with you.

[This message edited by mike7 at 6:04 AM, May 21st (Wednesday)]

IU Hoosier

We have all heard this before. You are now at the point where you have to make some firm decisions no matter how much it hurts. First, you are not getting the whole truth of what occurred. You do not develop these kind of feelings for someone with one kiss to where you are considering blowing up a none year relationship. I don't care what texts you think you have you don't have all the information and she needs to provide it ASAP.

Second, she is obviously still communicating with him. You told her you would not accept that. What are you doing about it. ? She is lying to you again on this, and I am telling you she is getting moral support from someone. You DO NOT have complete transparency and you cannot play this game without it.

So now you are in a situation where she is going to

Live in the house with you, text and dream about her Canadian who she supposedly did not do anything but kiss for a week in Mexico, and you are supposed to sit there and let her decide if she wants to be with you.

I do not believe her therapist is telling or will tell her that the way to resolve this is to put you on hold while she bangs some other guy again for a while to see how it works out.

I have tried to tell you how to force the truth about what happened out of her if she won't tell you but I will repeat if. Her other girlfriends that were on that trip know what happened. I know the one husband did not care but the other will probably want to know that the next rip to Mexico with this same group it could be them. Your wife will be really pissed if you threaten to mKe these. Apps and if you do one of them will tell you or their husband will tell you everything that happened.

Forget the 180 stuff now. That will be aging right into her hands. She wants you to detach but still be there so she has you on hold but has more home for exploration with him. You need to get a lawyer RIGHT NOW and file for D and tell her you are not contributing one cent to separate living for her little fantasy. She either works on your marriage and not her affair or your are done. If you continue to be reasonable and nice her it is going to get worse. Just read a few of the other guys on JFO forum here who are also trying that approach and the heartache they are going through

There are a lot of people trying to help you here .i don't think anyone is going to suggest to you to put up with this

Read and heed the posts above. I have little to add except to comment that she is asking you to accept being Plan B if this new "thing" doesn't work out, she is expecting you to be there for her to fall back on. If that is her attitude then you have to ask if you want to be her Plan B at least until the next new thing enters her life like Prince Charming or the Leader of the Pack.

Go see a lawyer or two without telling her. Knowledge is power, and you need to know what your options involve.

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 5:35 AM, May 21st (Wednesday)]