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My wife said tonight that she didn't know if she loved me and that she didn't think her feelings for the other guy was just some fling. She says there was something more there then just the excitement of something new. She said she could tell this guy stuff.

IU Hoosier

I wish I had a penny for every time I have read those exact same words on this site----I'd be rich.

Because I have been IN YOUR SHOES, I know that right now, you are afraid to take a stand because you love her & really want the marriage to work, AND, you want her to CHOSE you "of her own free will" right now. You are afraid that by handing her divorce papers (which you can always rip up later my friend, @ any point in the divorce process) it will be the final straw to push her in the direction of the Canadian POS.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. It is the only way to SAVE your marriage.

So far, she has not gotten a taste of what she is throwing away. She is brainwashed by unicorn dust right now, & she needs to be shocked out of it. Your taking a stand for youself will do that.

My wife said tonight that she didn't know if she loved me and that she didn't think her feelings for the other guy was just some fling. She says there was something more there then just the excitement of something new. She said she could tell this guy stuff

When she shows you who she is, believe her.

She is saying "I'm a selfish person with very poor boundaries who is placing my needs above yours, despite the fact that we made vows to each other. I need to get what I want at your emotional and financial expense and I really don't care what you think or how you feel about it. That's why I never told you what was going on and what I was planning on doing all along. I want you exactly where I'm going to leave you in case my choice to take off with my wonderful Canadian doesn't work out, I can come back to you to console me and provide me comfort of the home and your friendship to regain my composure so that I can keep looking for another Mr. Wonderful in the future."

I'm excited to see you tonight

I love you but I'm not in love with you

I don't know if I love you

Well, IU, she's certainly not been consistent, has she.

These are not the thoughts and words of a clear thinking person. Given these words, it seems,to me that her planned fun and games were ruined by your prompt and firm actions. You'll see if MC session provides any clarity whatsoever. If not, she's checked out of the M.

IU Hoosier

So far the only thing it appears she told you is that she does not know if she loves you anymore, and the only FACTS you have is what a few texts have given you that she told you that since she got back she started sexting him. Here are some SPECIFIC questions i think you need to DEMAND that answer to

(1) How did it start?

(2) Who else knows and was involved other than the one girlfriend

(3) How many nights did she spend in his room. If you still believe this was just a kiss on the last day of the vacation no one can help you.

(4) Since you got rid of her phone, what are the passwords to her work e mail and phone?

(5) How many times has she contacted him or vice versa since she was told that was a deal breaker? You said she sent a NC communication i believe. If not, you need to CALL this POS yourself with her on the phone with you.

Everything has to be a DEMAND, not a request!!!!

On as far as therapy is concerned, i would not contribute one cent to IC. You need to be there together so that she has to have more pressure put on her to be truthful by the MC. Otherwise, it will be privileged info and you will be paying for something that you have no way to verify. You will have to rely and what she tells you is said.

If you have a relationship with her family, you need to tell her you are going to tell them what is going on. If you get the idea i am advising you to do a lot to get her pissed off, it is exactly what i am telling you to do. She needs to be knocked off this fence and pressured daily to the extent that she comes clean because she will get no peace until she does. Her making that idiotic statement you and you giving her space to think about it is making it impossible for you to find out enough information to really know what is going on.

The sheer number of posts to your thread should tell you how many people out here care and are trying to help you. No one is trying to hurt you or be hard on you, but we know if you let yourself get pushed around it is going to be worse.

She said she could tell this guy stuff

Like what, what is stuff?

Your wife talks in riddles and you need to make her be clear or you never will be clear. WS talking in riddles is a very common trait.

Also, does your wife have a hard time making other decisions in life, like what to eat, what to buy or what to wear. She seems to be dragging this on for a long time. Especially for never doing anything with this guy.

The affair is still ongoing! Have you looked at any of her texts, emails or phone calls.

I agree with Badhurt, you need to get her to answer all of those questions. With her talking in circles constantly, how can you make any kind of informed decisions.

She cannot continue like it is only her life, and her decisions have no effect on you at all.

Too many WS's screw around and dilly dally around thinking the BS will just sit and wait for their decisions.

To answer your question, no, I never heard that line from my wife. She thought the OM was a drunk all along. Her affair and reasons were different than your wife's. But all lies are the same, all excuses are the same. Because they WANT to be able to continue the affair.

Since you have met this guy, have you thought about calling him and discussing with him just what the hell did go on between them. This is very much your life we are talking about. But again, the WS thinks the BS lives in a vacuum and nothing affects them.

I do have a question: Why all of a sudden does she now NOT want to move out. I thought she did want to move out for awhile. Why the change?

Craig,

Just an FYI. I think IU Hoosier said he knew he was talking on the phone to the husband of the girlfriend who screwed one of the Canadians. I do NOT think he knows the guy his wife is involved with.

She hasn't gotten rid if her phone yet. This was something we talked about doing a while ago since her work phone is free. She uses the same PW for both phones and I know them. I have been looking at her phone while she is away and have not seen any additional calls or texts from the OP.

After we talked about the seperate living arrangements yesterday, she realized that was something I didn't think would help and she agreed.

I have talked to one of the other girls on the trip, who my wife just started talking to again. Turns out, this girl was pissed when she saw my wife flirting with this guy and made a huge public fight in Mexixo. This is the story my wife told me when I first found out and this weekend, I confirmed it with the friend. They weren't talking, because my wife was pissed at her for not being "her" friend. Her feelings have changed towards her though the last week after she realized that the other cheating wife was not a good friend. The good friend has no idea that my wife and the OP were talking after the trip ended though. I let her in on that one. It was actually the first person I told so far.

My wife said tonight that she didn't know if she loved me and that she didn't think her feelings for the other guy was just some fling. She says there was something more there then just the excitement of something new. She said she could tell this guy stuff. Is that her just trying to justify everything to herself. I was Just was wondering if this is something that others have heard while going through it.

This combined with the fact that she is considering moving out for a couple of weeks and NOW she hasn't even gotten rid of her phone yet?!? WTF?? I would be SHOCKED if she wasn't still in contact with this guy.

I know this is not easy. But, now is where you need to take a hard stand and spell out exactly what you need. If there is even ONE thing she will not agree to then you need to lawyer up.

Then we will see how long Mr. Fantasy guy lasts once reality hits.

IU Hoosier

OK. Now new information. So you have the passwords to her phone, but NOT her work e mail. She is communicating with him there.

The girlfriend that you talked to should be able to fill you in on a lot of details like if they ever saw your wife of if she disappeared with this guy, which is likely. One friend would not get so pissed at your wife JUST for a little flirting that they did not speak if there was not a lot more going on that made her very uncomfortable.

You are getting what is called TRICKLE TRUTH here. IU Hoosier, you need to look yourself in the mirror and answer this question to yourself honestly:

DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE YOUR WIFE WENT TO MEXICO, SPENT THE BETTER PART OF A WEEK WITH ANOTHER MAN WITH THE RESULT BEING HER QUESTIONING YOUR MARRIAGE, AND THAT SHE HAS NOT HAD SEX WITH HIM???

Forget the text you saw to the bad girlfriend. You have NOT SEEN EVERYTHING. No one on here believes you have i do not think. Do you have the copies of the sexting. Get the phone records.!!! And don't tell her you are doing it. And consider putting a VAR in her car so that if she contacts him on way to or from work you will know.

Badhurt nailed it.

For her to be considering leaving the marriage and this fogged up she had sex with him multiple times in my opinion.

I'm sorry.

When caught, WSs always try to minimize. They look you right in the eye so convincingly & lie. "It was only one kiss", or (in my case)

"We only had sex once", or, there are other members here who were told "It was only a handjob" when in fact it was a LTA (long term sexual affair).

We just can't believe that our spouse would lie to us like that.

Because of the way that your WW is acting right now, I too feel that they did a lot more than kiss in Mexico.

Badhurt, right, now I recall.

I have been looking at her phone while she is away and have not seen any additional calls or texts from the OP.

Misdirection.

A WS is very good at misdirection. They get you looking over there and it is really over here where things are happening.

Another misdirection play. Make you think everything is cooled way off while making up their minds or saying things like I know I need to change...all the while they are still deep in the affair.

All misdirections. Your wife is only going to tell you things that will help her misdirection. Otherwise she wouldnt sound so confused as what to do.

You do have to snoop on your own, somehow.

As for the other gf, heavy flirting could have made her very uncomfortable and mad. I have seen that happen. It is hard to say if your wife went off somewhere alone with the guy or not. Just the fact your wife was acting like that bothered her friend.

If possible, could you talk to the GF again and "gently" ask for more info.

Agree with Badhurt & Craig2001. You need more info.

You can buy a VAR ( voice activated recorder ) at Walmart for under $40, I think.

It is not difficult to figure out how to use (believe me, I am older & technologically challenged----I had a friend who is in her 20s show me how to use it [she is also a BS], & then it was easy---if I could do it, so can you.)

The only problem I had was that the engine noise + the radio made it difficult but not impossible to hear the conversation---but I am losing my hearing. Hopefully, your WW's car is not as noisy as my WH's car was (he had the game on really loud on the radio while he was talking).

Secure it in WW's car. Put it someplace where she will not find it (if possible, tape it securely with duck tape underneath the driver's seat. There is a light on the side which goes on when it is recording----cover that also with duck tape. Don't put it under the glove compartment or the radio.

You will have to get it out of her car at night to listen to it , when she is not looking, & then put it back in before she leaves the next morning.

But be assured that it is worth it. In a short time you can have all of your answers.

Chances are that she is talking to Canadian POS (or her "bad" girlfriend, or even other people who are supporting her in this fantasy endeavor) while she is driving to & from work. You will learn a lot.

Many people on this site have found out invaluable info which has helped them immensely by installing a VAR.

Buddy I'm sorry but your wife is having an affair with this POS. If you basically got the I love you but I'm not in love with you speech, she is there in fog land in an affair. I got that speech from my WW actually long before the affair got physical. I had no clue.

Only you can know what you are willing to do to save your marriage. But you know when it is just getting going you can kill it quickly. If your wife want's some POS then you can't change that you can't control her. But you don't have to let it happen on your watch.

IF she is not sure she wants to be married to you then give her her walking papers.

Do not let her disrespect you you will regret it.

I wish I had found out about my wife's affair before it went on for more than a year. And she became a royal bitch.

Don't let it happen

Hoosier,

Her "I'm not sure I'm in love with you" is VERY common fog-talk from a WS. We've heard that time and time again around here. You'd almost swear it's page 32 from the cheater's handbook.

Mike7 is DEAD ON. Read his post again and again.

There's a quote from a book that (surprisingly) is directed to women in the dating world, but it's soooo fitting for your situation as well:

Don't make someone a priority that treats you like an option.

Think about that for a little while. That is EXACTLY how she's treating you - as her backup plan. DO NOT LET HER DO THAT. YOU DESERVE MORE.

I know it sucks to be in this position bad I know you're scared that if you file for D and have her served it will push her towards this OM.

I filed and had WH served and he said it pushed him away. However, he is now doing the things I have asked. If he hadnt though and as much as it would have hurt at least I would have had my answer.

I still have not officially stopped the D but that is always an option and one that you have too. Don't let her walk all over your heart.

You have to be okay with whatever decision you make and it will probably take some time to get there. But please know that if she's not willing to do what it takes, she's not worth it. YOU'RE the prize not her.

IU there is a lot of good advice above.

You need to get her to be transparent about her actions in Mexico and now. This can either be through spying, key loggers, VAR's, phone spyware. Or directly, ask to see her work email. Do not give her time to clean it up ask to see it immediately.

Also, push her off that fence and out of the "fog", threaten divorce, tell her family, make the A a very uncomfortable place for her to be.

mchercheur, also, best use of "brainwashed by unicorn dust" in a post, I plan to use that in a sentence 3 times today

HOOSIER BE STRONG, for your marriage, but also for yourself, you don't deserve to be treated like this!

I don't have a problem going to see a lawyer and getting the D papers all ready, but I have not found anything on her phones or emails to make me think she is still talking to OP. I did order a VAR 2 days a go, so that should arrive today. I have pushed her multiple times for what happened in Mexico and if she is still having the affair and have not gotten any different answers. I will see what comes out of the VAR.

IU Hoosier

Does your WW have a Facebook acct?

Please read the thread that is the top one in General right now:

Topic: am i the only one that didnt know about this?

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=531757

Maybe your WW is using one of those ways to communicate with POS OM.

They are definitely still in touch, or she would be behaving differently right now (she would really be remorseful for what she has done to you, & you would feel it).

You just have to find out how they are communicating.

IU - to be honest, I'm not as certain as the others that she's still in contact. But I'm very suspicious.

the fact that she said she'd like to see him naked and expressing surprise at her friend sleeping with the other guy in her texts is not proof of innocence. Many WS are clever enough to try to keep it a secret. If you tell your friend what you did, there's no telling where the story will go.

But regardless of her guilt or innocence, I'm concerned that she is now saying she's not sure she loves you anymore. Why is that? a couple of days ago she texted you about how happy she was. Is this her shame speaking? Is it because she's ashamed of herself and doesn't want to admit it so she's now giving herself a justification?

in either case, if she's saying she's not sure she loves you, you should respond in kind. Why is it fair that she gets the fling and then because it's stopped she now gets to choose whether to keep YOU or not. YOU get to choose too! She's shown that she's damaged and not fully vested. You need to realize YOU are the prize. Maybe YOU don't want to be married to someone who was going to cheat and is now uncertain of her love!

just my thoughts.