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So the story continues.

I thought we had a good Reconcilation, till she went for conference again. I was weary about her going, she was even suggesting I join her but I thought . life has to go on ... we have to learn trust. The OM was not supposed to be there.

So she went, and I was checking her iphone locator, somethings not jibed, I asked her where she was, she lied, lied again. It ended up she was in another male friends hotel room. I still tend to believe nothing happened there, or am just dreaming it, I will probably never know unless she confesses.

But even this this is beyond the point, the very fact that in this situation , when she was remorseful in a tough recovery,and all that stuff , she immediately went into this old mode .. lying and lying more to cover lies.

I don;t know where do we begin now, she is remorseful, sorry, begging me to stay, but as she herself say, those words do not mean anything anymore ....

I'm so sorry. She's just following in her old patterns. At some point the BS just has to call it; the wayward won't really ever change. I don't know if this is your time for that or not, but that's a harsh dose of reality.

So sorry you're having to ride this roller coaster. Stay strong and start the 180. Don't allow her to run you're relationship anymore. Be strong and love yourself enough to not allow her behavior. You do deserve better than this.

So there's 3 PA you know about and yet she not only lies but went to another man's room. I agree, maybe nothing happened but she's slipping into old habits and she's already proven she can't be trustworthy. I'm sorry your back in this sich.

She keeps having affairs because you LET her keep having them.

I hate to say it, but you've attained floor mat status with her. She cheats and she lies to you, you have a D-Day, you forgive her and she does it all over again and you just forgive her again and the cycle just repeats itself over and over.

Just the fact that you're considering starting the reconciliation process all over - yet AGAIN - says it all.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over and over - and expecting different results.

If you keep forgiving her, you can expect to live the rest of your life like this.

You deserve better. I just wish you could see that.

[This message edited by NeverAgain2013 at 2:52 PM, May 19th (Monday)]

I'm sorry she keeps putting you in this situation. It is just torturous, I know, that is why I had to ask my STBXWW to leave. Here's hoping for the two of you.

Wait! Don't jump to conclusions yet, you may need more confirmation. May & October are notorious Sun Spot months & totally mess with communications from the satellites. Even my daughter called me pissed off that her husband called in a rage that she'd been skipping hither and yon.

I myself have been watching my husband through Google's location history & device manager & even the two of them don't agree on his loc. The difference for me is that I might track him coming home, so it's the same boring ride up the interstate and back.

I also noticed when we went a couple of times to Vegas recently there must be some shielding through the structures because of the casino's sizes. The GPS was totally non reliable. Only reliable in the sense it would show us in the correct hotel and that was that. If I went by the GPS my husband spent the weekend gambling in a parking lot, heh.

So unless you really think the tracking you got was accurate, say, showing her going to the conference room, restaurant etc., you might want to ease a bit and slip to trust but verify some more. Just an fyi, since my husband travels a bit, he's a regular gadfly when at the hotel as well. This I know are just random satellite grabs cause I know he does not move THAT much. Same when he is at work, the accuracy is as good as the fact he is in the building somewhere and that's it. I hope that helps you.

FWH treading lightly and respectfully. I understand that it's the behavior pattern that is so upsetting. Shortly after my D-day, I had been chatting with someone from quest (local chat-line). I never met up with this woman, nor had sex, or even talked about hooking up. Problem is, the behavior pattern. My wife explained it to me this way: A recovering alcoholic should not go into a bar.

Let's assume that nothing happened with your wife and this male friend. Still, alone in a hotel room is a no-no. There is the phone, or the lobby... And so on. Hopefully my example can help your wife understand your position.

Just curious. Three PA , she's back in hotel room with another man out of town, and you believe she was not cheating. She stayed with another man in his room. What exactly makes you confident she did not cheat again???

she did admit having a long heart to heart conversation with this old friend. So she does not feel bad about this. She is very sorry for lies. Tells she did it as she did not want to upset me knowing that I would be mad, and knowing that she did nothing wrong.

We have no idea how to go on from here ...

we both don't like the idea of MC but seems to be our only chance, we tried it twice earlier years ago .. but it was when she was still cheating and hiding so it was not a honest effort.

Thanks for words of hope about GPS, on this part there is no doubt ... unfortunately.

I also had to kick myself out of the Reconciliation forum when I went through Dday #2.

I also kicked US out of MC and insisted WH go back to IC. I am undecided - still shell-shocked - on whether to try or leave. There are a lot of things to consider. He seems truly remorseful this time, but gee, I thought we would be 6 months further in this process.

I really wish I had kicked him to the curb after Dday #1.

Then he would know there are consequences and maybe he would have come out of his fog earlier.

I think maybe your WS needs to know what consequences are.

Tells she did it as she did not want to upset me knowing that I would be mad, and knowing that she did nothing wrong.

Wait...let's be clear here, she did do something wrong.

1) She retreated to another mans hotel room.

2) She failed to mention this to you.

3) ? Only she know what took place.

and she does not believe she did anything wrong? I think she is trying to manipulate you into believing that her actions are not wrong. The mere fact that she, as a wayward, willingly spent time alone in another mans hotel room is just pain WRONG. I believe that she knows this.

She really needs to witness, 1st hand, the consequences of her behavior.

When I told my WH that he had but ONE chance, he fully understood that I meant it. I am a woman of my word. 3+years out and I have lived with a 100% remorseful WH who works every single day to right his wrong. I DESERVE that and SO DO YOU. DEMAND IT!

[This message edited by RidingHealingRd at 4:29 PM, May 19th (Monday)]

(HTLWI) Your wife didn't tell you because she didn't want to upset you, knowing that you would be mad?

Why would she do anything if she knew you would be upset by it? Doesn't your happiness factor at all?

What did she tell herself to make it alright?

Lots of questions that I would be asking. Doesn't look like she was interested in earning back your trust on this occasion.

Ugh! I am so sorry. If it smells like a rat, it is a rat. Listen to the wording; she went to another man's room and lied about it. It sucks and I am so sorry this is occurring again.

How to Live: Brother I am sorry but it certainly looks like you know it does. My question is for you.What was your healthy boundry? What line could not be croseed and if it was, what was the consequence. I don;t know but you should.

Don;t try to rewrite or justify so you don;t have to face the truth. Lying to spare your feeling while being in another man;s hotel room far away from home would be a boundry broken in my eyes. Only you can decide but I think you know the answer.

she did admit having a long heart to heart conversation with this old friend. So she does not feel bad about this. She is very sorry for lies. Tells she did it as she did not want to upset me knowing that I would be mad, and knowing that she did nothing wrong.

This is beautiful.... truly beautiful. Your wife is clearly a great artist and I can only admire her skills. This is a very subtle level of manipulation on her part.

We have no idea how to go on from here ...

For you.... divorce court is the only logical option left. For her.... she doesn't need my advice.

We have no idea where to go from here? WE? Are you seriously telling me that your WW has no idea where to go from here? This completely baffles me and makes me very angry in all honesty! She should know exactly what her part is to play as the WW! Be there for you, agree to better boundaries, do whatever it takes to make you feel safe. Not talk to other men and certainly not have a HEART TO HEART? WTF?? It doesn't matter if she has known this man for 50,000 years, unless you are aware of it, present, it's shared with you, then she no longer has that right. She tells him a name for a good councillor, wishes him well, goes to her room and talks to you! A heart to heart is an intimate conversation reserved for very close friends, family and your SO. She now has no right to close MALE friends.

Now, I can understand YOU not knowing where to go from here. You obviously love her and want to be with her. I think at this time if you are prepared to accept that this woman isn't interested in putting in the hard work to change her fundamental behaviour when out of your sight then you have a shot, currently. If you aren't prepared to live that way, then your only recourse is to give consequences for her behaviour.

A quote I once read as some bodies tag line on here really affected both my WH and I, and I can't remember it word for word but it basically said... The true test of a person's character is what they do when no one is looking! Your WW needs to live and breathe that if there is a hope of you having a marriage that you deserve to have!

Doesn't matter whether there was an orgy vs innocent chatting (in his hotel room?! )

It's the lies,lies,lies,LIES

I feel that it is the selfishness that is the ultimate elephant in the room. She (my WS) can be very generous, giving, loving person when she feels like this, but when she feel stressed, sad, threatened, unfulfilled, the rest of the world disappears or rather exist only to help her deal with her problems.

Many times I was completely blown apart by the absoluteness of this selfishness, so pure that nearly innocent. It was not that she purposefully decided to hurt me, she was so absorbed in her feeling that was totally oblivious to other concerns.

After seeing it this way it is tough to think of what to do ... I cannot attempt to change her. I guess the only thing I can do is to help her see the consequences, the tough love, let her learn now what should be probably learned in kindergarden years.

Couple weeks after the Dday she seemed to "get it" was remorseful, loving, trying. It was enough to meet first real world challenge, first sadness, work problem, to completely forget the reconciliation work and be again "me me me".

No one said it will be easy process. Life sure is a fascinating game.

I'm not the sharpest tooll in the chest but I know a few things. First, every hotel I've ever stayed in has a lobby with comfy chairs and even tables in case a picture has to be drawn. And they are arranged for some privacy.

Second, unless a woman is married to the man or related to him, she does not go into his hotel room. Except if the bed is needed for whatever reason.....

bad behavior and even worse thought processes if the proverbial "nothing" happened. You might ask her about her boundaries, if any.

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 2:28 PM, May 20th (Tuesday)]