SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

"Hall pass"? My fwh suggested this. And I adamantly rejected it. It's still cheating... Just a justification, no different than all the justifications a foggy WS gives themselves to have the A in the first place.

We will never be even. Never. Lowering myself to the same place he was when he destroyed me, will not make me feel better. It will make me feel worse. It will make me a hypocrite. Two wrongs, equal two wrongs... There is no good deed done with bad intentions.

Four words play over and over in my head. "My heart is broken." Some days, that's the only thing my brain can process, because the pain from HIS actions is so profound. I don't even wish this pain on the APs, much less this man that I love enough to give a third chance to.

Watching my sister and BIL destroy each other, little bits at a time, is also destroying their family. Their children are being destroyed by this game of who can hurt who harder...

Only games have a get out of jail free card. Life does not. All actions have consequences. You can't undo an A. No matter how many hall passes you have.

t/j

@stl - I think I've been in complete agreement on most of you postings. This one though... I dunno. Personally I think the "hall pass" is pretty bad advice. I could go on and on as to why it's a bad idea. The cons is astounding.

end t/j

From my own personal experience with my father turning into an MH, he had a ton of betrayal from my NPD mom. Now I have to watch him try to recover from betraying himself. He honestly said to me that his A was "the worst mistake of his life." Even though he divorced NPD mom, he thought the A would be something for himself to help him get over everything. The fallout several months later on himself being with OW is a catastrophe. He's that much further down the rabbit hole and now fighting am emotional battle on two fronts. The utter devastation and betrayal by NPD mom, then the utter devastation and betrayal to himself.

yop

How about, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind?"

I find this whole idea distasteful. Sure, we get our guts ripped out, and what might make us feel better? Doing it to someone else? Really? I understand the feeling of it, but the rationalization of it? The finding of "evidence" in anonymous chatrooms that it is a good idea? Well, good luck with your life, cheater wannabe, because you are signing yourself up for more pain. More hurt. Oh, and more pain for those you supposedly love, too. Just get divorced already!

And, to top it off, you get to use someone else to make yourself feel better. Ask most waywards how they feel about themselves when they realize that is what they did - used someone to try to patch up their own dysfunction. Not enviable. Nothing to strive for.

So, I understand the fantasy, but am quite frankly blown away by those who are justifying it. You know, there are lots of other immoral, hurtful things you could post about doing all over the internet, I suppose. Maybe you can find a way to rationalize those things too, because you've been hurt.

So, "hall pass?" Forgive me, but I say -- grow the hell up.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 12:09 PM, June 10th (Tuesday)]

tigrislilium

I see you haven't responded in awhile

I hope you are okay and that you haven't been scared off by all the judgments.

I totally understand what you are going through, and you are not alone.

Do what YOU need to do to heal.

I do like the post by the women who said to take a hot bath and fantasize about an affair or the "hall pass" that was brilliant because the hall pass if agreed upon, is not a revenge affair, it's an open marriage.

But in the end if you decide to have a revenge affair, I for one would not blame you or think less of you.

I have good friends who have suggested a revenge affair for me as a way heal.

So, I think there are likely a lot of people out there who will not judge you harshly.

Of course there are a lot of people who will, but who cares. Do what YOU need to do to heal.

And understand, these reactions to the hall pass are because it really does sound like the same justifications we got for the As. They thought it would make them feel better. They really did. Ask a truly remorseful WS if it actually did make them feel better in the long run. My fWH will tell you, it did not. Afterwards, He was suicidal. He thought about driving off cliffs, walking into traffic, and taking all of my BP pills. It made a bad situation worse. It's just adding more pain to a horribly painful situation.

Seethelight...

No one is judging except for you. SI is a site about healing from infidelity and you're out here (again) recommending an affair.

Enough already.

I look in the mirror and see a man who will not lie cheat or steal. I see a man that others can count on in time of need. I see a man who will go to great lengths to honor his vows and commitments. I see a man who understands why the phrase cruel and unusual punishment is actually worded into our founding documents.

if you decide to have a revenge affair, what or who would you see in that mirror?

the HALL PASS...nothing like a free infidelity card.

Not judging because if you seen my previous post I would probably had one given the chance in my early stages.

Now, not so. I always told myself that I wanted to be the knight in the shinning armor and only have one woman in life... I was always proud of the fact that in my eyes I have been faithful (porn aside). The amount of pain that one feels on this is just horrible and the amount of damage it costs is almost non repairable.

Broken people damage other people which causes them to be broken inside just as well. -LS

Been there, felt that. Hell, I still have flickers from time to time. Just like I have a flicker to keep the $100 I found on the ground, or not to tell the hotel staff that they forgot to charge me for the third night cause they're a big corporation anyway and their rates are robbery... etc etc. Then I clear my head and do what my heart tells me is the right thing.

We're designed to balance the scales to an extent - to grab at what resources and attention will help improve our lives. We're also part of a civilized society that has interwoven things like vows, laws, and contracts. What comes along with that is a sense or responsibility, or integrity if you will. You can argue your case all day long as to why you deserve something at the expense of someone else. At the end of the day, you have to live with yourself so I think it's critical that we make decisions that are in line with our core beliefs.

Anything starting with "revenge" doesn't jibe with who I want to be. Could you reconcile that?

[This message edited by Jrazz at 12:38 PM, June 10th (Tuesday)]

I did the revenge affair... it was the lowest point in my life. Long story short my H had 2 affairs before and I let him gaslight me for years - he didn't come clean, I felt crazy and my gut was screaming. I was miserable. Started drinking a lot, and had 2 RAs one EA and 1 PA. I tried to mimic the affairs he had, and at the time the revenge was sweet (the bitter would come later) I enjoyed seeing him hurt. I enjoyed putting him through what I went though. At that time- a short period of time. Truth is, I hurt myself soooo much more then those few minutes of happy revenge I felt were worth. I became no better then a cheating POS. And to be honest, looking back- I am disgusted. The PA was horrible. I just layer there, my mind wandering - it wasn't enjoyable, I knew I was being used, that guy didn't care at all about me... nor I about him. I did it for revenge & power. But I showered after and cried my eyes out (I received more weak brokenness then the power I felt momentarily).

As far as the "hallpass" goes IMHO, it is complete bull shizz. My husband suggested I get even, many times... and I said no until 2009. He knew everything that was going on, I did not hide my As. What's the revenge worth if they don't know? I was so stupid. He blamed his next affair on what I did. There is lots lots more to this story but PLEASE- a revenge affair is not worth it. Ever. You will only hurt yourself more then you deserve. I wish I would have just left back then before I did that- at least my integrity & self worth wouldn't have been burned.

A revenge affair will NEVER make things even simply because it can't compete with the original affair in terms of devastation. Most BS say we never saw the A coming. Someone once made a great analogy in comparing our WS's A to Pearl Harbor. A revenge affair is more like the British bombing Germany in WWII: destructive but not entirely unexpected. Justice, if defined as giving exactly what you got (which really isn't justice), is not possible for a BS.

Well, how about the ego validation angle? Tigris, just go to a bar for ten minutes. Let three different men know you are down to hook up and at least one will bite. Married or single, one will bite. There really is very little ego validation to be had. Our pathetically weak WS met up with another pathetically weak person and did what two assholes do when they find each other. Don't become another asshole. There are already too many of them. If you want more than your WS (and you have every right to feel this way), leave him and find someone more deserving of you. If revenge is really what you want, your future happiness with a better man will probably bring your WS more grief than a RA.

R means that your M will always be a lopsided house, no matter how much the M heals. One of you will always be the strong, faithful one and one will be the former termite. If you have a RA, even if you stay together, that is going to be one fucked up house. Hard to feel safe when the foundation is crumbling.

Some beautiful responses, here. You guys are renewing my faith in humankind.

*** Haven't read the responses ***

You WANT to be a wayward? Siiiiiiiigh. This site is about SURVIVING infidelity, not causing more of it. UGH..

You want ego kibbles? Find them another way.

You want no-strings-attached sex? Then DIVORCE your WH and THEN have some casual sex if you want. That's ALL I wanted from my ex. Divorce me if you fucking want, but don't have a fucking affair on me!

the ONLY WAY I will ever feel like things are fair is to do what WH did.

You think you are going to do the SAME damage to him? I didn't divorce my husband over the sex. I divorced him for the YEARS of lies and manipulation and emotional abuse he put me through. You are NEVER going to get even with him or be able to hurt him the same way he hurt you. If you're lucky, you will get some justice without getting your hands dirty.

The RA idea comes up pretty frequently here, so I don't think it's out of line to say that this is something many BSs consider.

The MHs on here are also pretty unanimous in stating that having an RA only made things worse. In some cases, much worse. (I'm not an MH, so I'm taking their word for it, and I thank them for being honest.)

But feeling shame for even considering an RA really doesn't help. And not doing it for the reasons you shouldn't (i.e., integrity and all that) is the better choice in the long term, but wholly unsatisfying in the midst of recovery.

That's why I went with the fantasy RA. I imagined I was stunningly gorgeous and my most favorite celebrities (who shall not be named ) all fell head over heels on first sight of me. And in my fantasies they were all single, even if they aren't in reality. They're my thoughts in my head, so I ran with it with no guilt and no shame.

I don't do it anymore. I'm in a stage now where I don't need it anymore. But sometimes I felt so old, so ugly, so un-wanted, so un-loveable. My fantasies were my way of convincing myself that I was none of those things, and it didn't matter what anyone else thought of me because I still thought I was loveable. I still liked me.

So go ahead and have an RA with yourself in your head. The self in your head might look like someone else, but it's really you. They're your thoughts. Tell yourself what you really think of you. And make it good.

THIS:

YEARS of lies and manipulation and emotional abuse

No matter what you did it will never be justice. When WW told me about her affair and compared it to my porn use she said it was basically even steven.

To think the person we are supposed to love and supposed to love us would want to get even with us in their pain. To hurt us intentionally and yet they are only hurting them self.

Just like if I wanted to go out and beat the crap out of OM (My Relative), I am sure no one would say, get a hall pass or go do it. The consequences are just too high and it still wouldn't be justice...

Does anyone think I should, cause I will if you think it's ok?

Seriously, it's not worth it. Your heart is already fragile and shattered, don't throw it out to the birds to just pick up and chew on.

Alice,

I have read both yours and your WHs posts, and I know I am coming into this discussion late, but...

Speaking as a Wayward - don't pursue the RA. You said in one of your earlier posts that having one would be the only way to "get even".

I know you probably see the experiences your H had as new and exciting, and as a result, he got to experience something you didn't, but the reality is that the betrayed spouses are already "better than" the Waywards.

You've been loyal and true, and for that it indeed does make you the "better half".

I am not condescending enough to think that I can tell you what to do, but I wanted to give my input as a WH.

Also, not sure if anyone else suggested this, but there is a "Mad Hatters" forum in another thread that might shed some insight on what happens when you have a RA.

Putting 'revenge' in front of it, doesn't make it justifiable. It's just another A. It's still sordid, it's still disgusting and it's still wrong.

My H cheated. I cheated four years later. My A had sod all to do with his. It was because I was broken.

Dig deep and look at the part of you that wants this. That part of you is a wayward. Find out why and figure out what you need to do to heal.

Everything you hope to gain from a 'revenge' affair can be gained in healthy ways that don't mean you betray yourself and become something you despise.

Ask yourself what do you want to see reflected back at you when you look in the mirror. Then decide whether having an affair is a good idea.

Wow. Thanks, all, for your input, advice, and warnings.

I truly don't think I ever could do it. It is just a flight of fancy with an evil edge to it.

I know full well that, even if I COULD stoop to his level, it really wouldn't be anywhere close to his level, as it would be for revenge, not because I want an affair... not because I got swept up in a moment with some other man and let the current carry me to a place of secrecy, lies and selfishness. I'm not that person.

I know it would solve nothing. I know it wouldn't fill this gaping hole in my heart, and might actually make it larger.

I don't want any other man. I just DON'T want what THIS one comes with.

This all comes down to accepting my new reality - either I can or I can't live with this person who I was only recently introduced to but whom I've been married to for years.

Of course I wouldn't have signed up for this had I been able to see into my future. But I'm here now, with a child to care for, and an occasionally remorseful, occasionally supportive, occasionally honest WH. I have a choice to stay or leave, and both options come with harsh consequences. So for now, I will stay, but occasionally I will indulge in visions of hurting him back, because I'm flawed, unhappy, and still ANGRY. A revenge affair wouldn't hurt him nearly enough for me to bother doing it,

Besides, I know the hypocrite he is - HE'D leave ME in a heartbeat over an affair...

God, I sound blisteringly angry, don't I? Even after 2.5 years.

I want off this ride, but it appears I'm welded to it for life.

t/j

Does anyone think I should, cause I will if you think it's ok?

Didn't we already have this conversation LS? Let's take Alice's fantasy idea and do it that way. I'll join you, with my own "person" in mind.

Seriously, it's not worth it. Your heart is already fragile and shattered, don't throw it out to the birds to just pick up and chew on.

GREAT analogy for this topic.

Occasionally remorseful = UNremorseful

You are only stuck if you want to be. You have CHOICES. Don't live hating yourself one more minute. Fight for the respect you deserve. If he's not giving you respect, DON'T GIVE IT BACK TO HIM. LEAVE HIS ASS.

Do NOT let him treat you like a doormat he can wipe his shoes on whenever he fucking feels like. FUCK THAT.