SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

TG- It has been a long time since I dated, but I was referring to longer term relationships. Dating is more like an auditioning process and that is little different. I used to think when on date with a woman/girl, "Would I actually want to spend time or talk to her afterwards ?"

This breaks into a couple of different variations. Players or nice guys. Most men fall somewhere in between. The player would tend to treat the date as a means to an, "end." Whereas the nice guy might be trying to determine if he really likes her or not. Respects her opinion, etc. Many variations on that dynamic out there.

I am not really sure what you are asking ? I haven't heard that term before or maybe I am a prude : )

7years- Everyone is a little different. I think you misunderstood me. I am no way saying it is the only thing to base a relationship on. It isn't about the act itself. It is more about the connection, the feeling of closeness and one of the few places a lot of men are willing to show true vulnerability to someone else. Oxytocin is released during these times and helps create a "bond." There are many ways to be physically intimate and not all of them involve the main act. Just clarifying before I get labeled as a typically guy who is "only interested in one thing."

Think back to the most intimate conversations or time spent with a woman ? Was there a physical relationship ? Hand holding and everything leading up the "act," I would consider part of the physical relationship. If that is not present I am not going to interested enough to make more than the "required," effort. I would question a relationship that was that "cold." Physical affection to some degree is more or less important to most men. A larger group of men place more significance on the physical relationship and use to determine the basis of the relationship.

Jana- My sitch is exactly the same as you describe.

WAL pretty much nailed it. Having the FOOs that I have it left a kind of a hole inside me. I craved female attention and validation. It dominated my thoughts. I usually felt guilt about how horrible I was to some of my "temporary" partners. So I tried to distance myself to alleviate the guilt or break it off knowing that they would be hurt and never want to see me again. Relationship sabotage in spades. It was hard to form lasting relationships because the ones I really cared about I tried not to rush into the physical part because I knew the bad feelings would follow (Thanks FOOs). Sure, I had needs and hormones would sometimes win and ruin things, but in hindsight it isn't something I am proud of. The only lasting relationships I have had were with people that were as equally messed up. I sought them out. Being able to recognize "daddy issues," a mile away was like an evil superpower I had. I was lucky to get therapy at a younger age and avoid that self destruction before it cost me more than it already had. I know that sounds whiny, but I don't intend it to be.

My W and I had "the talk" early on in our relationship and she was a little shocked at first, but was mostly OK with it. She rationalized it as she had a guy that had options and chose her. So she must be worth something. Co-dependency at it's finest. It hasn't been brought up again. The double standard applies. It is much easier for my W to get beyond my past because (most of) society would condone or expect that behavior. I was a jock, I was physically virile I did what came naturally to me. It is much harsher on a woman that would do the same. Because women don't "need" it like men do. (not my opinion just stating the societal perception).

I guess I've never really judged my H's number (I'm not even really that sure what it is, I'm just guessing) because he was 29 when we got married. He had had a couple of LT girlfriends but he'd been single for a long time and played the field. I hadn't really been single for any significant stretch. I just figured that was normal male behavior to cat around. That's how my brother and all of my other male friends acted. I guess there is no "normal," huh?

JK, there's no equation. But since I've only been with one, I think I'd shy away from anything over 4? But IDK, hope to never find out.

As a woman who is turning 30 this year and never been married, 4 is a hard number. All of my sexual partners have been relationships, except 2. Some long relationships, some short ones. But my number is still over 10. My recent relationship was 4 months long, and we had sex after the second month. He started treating me badly, and I hate to admit that one thought that went through my head when I was trying to decide whether or not to end it was "crap this is increasing my number again." So does it make a difference in your security or viewpoint if the sexual partners have been relationships vs one night stands?

So does it make a difference in your security or viewpoint if the sexual partners have been relationships vs one night stands?

To answer your question indirectly it does make difference. ONS before the age of 25 really wouldn't even count, but if she still has them regularly I'll pass. No judgement...just not a casual sex kinda guy.

Also, I know 4 is a real hard number and really unlikely for any single woman my age. By no means am I suggesting my answer is a genarally held number for most men. Most wouldn't really care IMO.

Right now if I had to enter the dating world I think I would be intimidated by a woman with much more experience than me. Incidentally one of the reasons for R. Now as my experience level increases so would my number I guess.

I guess for ME, personally, I imagine that if I found myself dating (as a father with two kids) I would be most likely to be with a DBW with a couple of kids and a low "number". That may just be my lack of imagination though.

@LonelyGirl10

As a woman who is turning 30 this year and never been married, 4 is a hard number. All of my sexual partners have been relationships, except 2. Some long relationships, some short ones. But my number is still over 10. My recent relationship was 4 months long, and we had sex after the second month. He started treating me badly, and I hate to admit that one thought that went through my head when I was trying to decide whether or not to end it was "crap this is increasing my number again." So does it make a difference in your security or viewpoint if the sexual partners have been relationships vs one night stands?

I would say as far as increasing the number itself goes...see my previous response. It had nothing to do with my partners and I'll be the first to admit I'm damaged goods (aka head case) because I've never any confidence or self worth (thanks NPD mom). I felt like I was chasing a ghost statistically speaking because I always knew one was better than me even if I was told otherwise. So in that sense doesn't matter if it's sex in a relationship vs. a one night stand. Logically I know this is all in my head and it's just me, so I wouldn't worry about it.

That said, based upon my own experience with ONS vs. 3 long term girlfriends (each 2.5 years +) and my wife of almost 14 years (been together 17), I didn't get anything out of the ONS. I learned nothing and it was just a meaningless release of what exactly? IDK, I just know not for me. Where as in my relationships I had a lot of meaningful, out of this world sex. Some not so great too with one of my partners (CSA played a major factor for her).

Based on that, I would be way more intimidated by a woman's sexual history with longer relationships than I would with ONSs. ONSs, IMO, aren't all that great. Sure they can be a fun release, but there's only so much you are going to learn about THAT woman's (or your partner's) body in one or two sessions and that's only if you are paying attention. Where as if you take your time and learn every little nuance both physically and mentally about a woman's sexuality in a relationship and completely rock her world...well that's a lot more intimidating to me than a ONS.

eta - typo

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 1:54 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]

I went on a couple dates with a guy, and he asked me my number and then told me his was over 100

As my number is under 10, I must say that was intimidating.. I think the fear I would have, especially after already dealing with infidelity, is that it seems like it was fairly easy for him to pick someone up, hit it and quit it. Sooo, is he really going to be faithful to me all the time? Should I worry every time he goes out given his history? Is external validation important to him, and he's kind of ingrained to flirt and get women to like him for ego kibbles?

Of course people can change, and perhaps his "number" isn't as important as other things about him, but personally, I would really prefer a guy with a number on the lower side..

Also, I know 4 is a real hard number and really unlikely for any single woman my age. By no means am I suggesting my answer is a genarally held number for most men. Most wouldn't really care IMO.

Right now if I had to enter the dating world I think I would be intimidated by a woman with much more experience than me. Incidentally one of the reasons for R. Now as my experience level increases so would my number I guess.

That makes sense: probably a lot of folks would prefer people with a similar number.

Never asked my wife her "number" and she never asked me mine.

But we didn't meet until we were each about 30 years old, so I don't believe either of us expected the other to be a virgin.

Come to think of it, however, I never had that talk with any girl I was with. I guess it just didn't matter to me.

I knew a few had a lot more experience, and others had less. The ladies rarely volunteered information about past boyfriends to me.

Except in three cases where I received "confession" from each of them.

I remember going with my wife to an OB visit where I was present for the history taking. Wow, that could be tough. Doc asked about prior pregnancies, abortions and miscarriages, STI history. W had nothing to hide, but I'll bet some women would have some difficulty being open and honest with the doctor in similar circumstances.

The "number" that seems to matter on this forum is how many AFTER marriage!

My wife did the numbers "confession" shortly after we started dating, too.

It's sense become one of my rules of life that if someone has to "confess" their number to me (like I can give them absolution), chances are they're more bothered by it than I would ever be.

And then the question becomes, "What are you doing differently now? Or are you continuing to engage in behaviors you find to be destructive to yourself in order to cope with your life?"

Because the answer to that question is more important than a number.

(BTW, my wife's number is significantly higher than mine. As in, she's gotten more action since we've been married than my number.)

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 5:55 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]

I am really enjoy this thread and have read 99% ... Thank you everyone for the questions and answers.

I have a pondering thought regarding marriage/relationships post divorce etc:

After going through our past issues of why we are all on this or have found this board ... How do you feel about new relationships, moving in with a SO or re-marrying?

I'd never remarry for several,reasons. First at age 61 I'm not interested in more kids. I still have two semi independent kids and don't need more. I.e. Hers.

Second, there's the meal ticket issue. Unless very clear and strict prenup was agreed to keeping mine mine and hers hers, I want to protect my kids.

The third is related to the second. My life expectancy is short. No sane woman would want to marry me. I wouldn't want her kids and grand kids benefitting from my work and the sacrifices I have made.

Sorry if that seems harsh, but those are my reasons not to marry another time should my wife die or divorce occur.

I'm not some sort of porn fiend but I wouldn't want to be with a woman who had a no porn rule. Not because I couldn't live without porn. I would assume that the woman had low self confidence (which led to FWW PAs) and that she would be less adventurous in the bedroom.

Wow mindmonkey, wow, just wow. I find that statement absolutely sad. It's your opinion, and I respect that, and we womenz do want your honest opinions, even if we don't like them, lol. I said earlier that I have no intention of starting a SI porn war, and I'm not. I just could not help myself. Sorry for my buttinskiness. Carry on menz. 😬

Oh, and Schadenfreude, I am in complete agreement with your no remarriage rule. I feel the same way. I see remarriage in our age group as complete insanity, and a recipe for financial disaster.

I've seen too many rightful family heirs cut out of inheritance by second wives. It is just heartbreaking.

[This message edited by painpaingoaway at 9:44 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]

I'm not some sort of porn fiend but I wouldn't want to be with a woman who had a no porn rule. Not because I couldn't live without porn. I would assume that the woman had low self confidence (which led to FWW PAs) and that she would be less adventurous in the bedroom.

I don't know what kind of porn you're watching but the majority I've seen actually dampens my libido. The actors aren't enjoying it and it all feels so fake. Most of the men are gross and many of the women are too. There are a few that I do enjoy but IMO there is nothing that raunchy or sexy about it beyond the first few times you see it. I've never learned anything new/adventurous from porn - unless you count faking orgasms. I do get the titilation aspect of seeing others having stunt sex that I don't enjoy doing but do like to watch.

Those in the porn industry are quite open about the fact that what looks good almost always doesn't feel good - for the man or woman. I got the 'stunt sex' line from an interview with a male pornstar.

I can actually tell when a guy I'm sleeping with watches a lot of porn. The sex is all camera angle friendly and not pleasure friendly. It is a huge turn off and actually indicates a man who has low self esteem and is not confident enough to read a woman to satisfy her sexually.

Having said that I wouldn't have a no porn rule nor would I tolerate one being put on me. If I was anti porn and/or if I wanted a man who didn't watch porn I'd be looking for a guy like that. It never works when one person insists the other give something up that they enjoy. I'm not talking SA, chronic use or as a boundary in R - I'm talking in a non-infidelity/addiction situation.

REALLY LATE to this thread but I want to play, too!

Menz -

1. This thread covers boobs, hoo-ha, weight, make-up etc. It hasn't covered skin. I am 47. Born with black hair, I was also born with pale skin. Over the years, I have developed many, many sun freckles. In addition, I never had acne on my face but on my back and the backs of my legs. I feel the scars of all of this makes me look gross and I am self conscious naked. Are you bothered by flawed skin? I don't have them, but what about varicous veins?

2. First off:

Never had a conversation with any man where he said "Boy those fake breasts sure are fun." Its like laying your head down on a car tire

I am one of those naturally big breasted women. I never had children so they still are tentatively perky. My FAVORITE thing to do is to basically hang them over my partners face while on top of him for him to enjoy. Am I suffocating "him" or is "he" enjoying that, too?

3. BJ's -

I have only been with 2 men in my life ExH and Narcissitic POS boyfriend I dumped 2 months ago. Thing is, when I was married, I HATED giving my exh a bj. H-A-T-E-D. If he wanted one, I got turned off. Narcissitic POS? On the COMPLETE contrary - I LOVED giving him them!! I WAS the "everyman" fantasy with him

My question is to the womenz -if you like dick, shouldn't you like ALL dick? My question to the menz is have you encountered this phenomenon?

4. If we ask you if something is wrong and you say "Nothing," IS "NOTHING" WRONG??

5. When dating, WHY do you promise to call after the date and we don't hear from you for DAYS???? Women WANT to know THE NEXT DAY that their company was valued and that the message they received the previous day/night was reciprocated within those 24-36 hours NOT weeks later. WHY do you menz DISAPPEAR?

[This message edited by Guinness23 at 2:28 AM, July 4th (Friday)]

I've seen too many rightful family heirs cut out of inheritance by second wives. It is just heartbreaking.

Yep, happened to me. Dad realizd yrs later that he made a mistake gettg married but it was too late by then

My question is to the womenz -if you like dick, shouldn't you like ALL dick?

The person connected to that dick makes all the difference, for me

@Guinness23

1. This thread covers boobs, hoo-ha, weight, make-up etc. It hasn't covered skin. I am 47. Born with black hair, I was also born with pale skin. Over the years, I have developed many, many sun freckles. In addition, I never had acne on my face but on my back and the backs of my legs. I feel the scars of all of this makes me look gross and I am self conscious naked. Are you bothered by flawed skin? I don't have them, but what about varicous veins?

Not in the least. My wife has had 3 kids and it has wrecked havoc on her body. Cesarean scars, varicose veins, stretch marks, she also has pale skin and has developed some sun freckles. I love all of it. She hates those areas. I love my wife so sometimes, I'll spend a little extra time loving those areas (when she lets me) and let her know how much I find ALL of her attractive. Doesn't bother me in the least. Honestly, a woman's "imperfections" make her look more attractive. I could tell you what I like to do with some of my wife's "imperfections" but that would be crossing the line.

I think it doesn't bother most men for this very reason.... Oh wow!! Your naked?! And I get to um... And can I.... Oh geeze I'm soooo lucky that I... does someone have a textbook I can borrow?

2. I am one of those naturally big breasted women. I never had children so they still are tentatively perky. My FAVORITE thing to do is to basically hang them over my partners face while on top of him for him to enjoy. Am I suffocating "him" or is "he" enjoying that, too?

Of course he's enjoying it!! How could he not be. I love them all. They're all perfect to me, but if you got them and you can use them like that, all the power to YOU!

3. BJ's - I have only been with 2 men in my life ExH and Narcissitic POS boyfriend I dumped 2 months ago. Thing is, when I was married, I HATED giving my exh a bj. H-A-T-E-D. If he wanted one, I got turned off. Narcissitic POS? On the COMPLETE contrary - I LOVED giving him them!! I WAS the "everyman" fantasy with him. My question is to the womenz -if you like dick, shouldn't you like ALL dick? My question to the menz is have you encountered this phenomenon?

I personally have not encountered this. However, I have had conversations with my wife and female friends on the bj topic and I think they are in agreement with Imissmyhusb. Depended on who the penis was attached to. They are not willing to do it for every guy and can be selective about it. For one of them it was a hygiene issue. The first one she went down on wasn't very clean and I think it put her off for life, but was willing to do it to some of her partners out of "obligation". Kinda like chocolate. There are some not so good cheap stuff that you may not want to put in your mouth. But if there's some primo stuff there...well then.

4. If we ask you if something is wrong and you say "Nothing," IS "NOTHING" WRONG??

Depends. Could be 50/50 on that one. Yes, many times I may have a lot on my mind and something really may not be wrong. Really. Other times there may be something wrong but I'm not ready to talk about it at that moment. So I will say nothing is wrong. Sometimes I'll talk about it later. Other times I will let it go. Pick and choose my battles.

5. When dating, WHY do you promise to call after the date and we don't hear from you for DAYS???? Women WANT to know THE NEXT DAY that their company was valued and that the message they received the previous day/night was reciprocated within those 24-36 hours NOT weeks later. WHY do you menz DISAPPEAR?

This is an excellent question. I don't know why guys do this either. Personally I don't. I have never "played games" like this and did just call. However, I have mostly gone from one ltgf to another with only a handful of dates inbetween so maybe I'm not the best person to answer this. If I was interested, I would of course call and not disappear...but I wouldn't want to come off as too clingy/needy either. But then again I'm an adult and I wold preface the conversation with...I don't want to come off as too needy, but I really enjoyed our time together the other night. And go from there... If I promised I would call, I would call.

My question is to the womenz -if you like dick, shouldn't you like ALL dick?

It definitely depends on who the dick is attached to and how he is making me feel emotionally in the relationship. Otherwise you would be detached from the sexual experience with the person and what they like and doing it for your own pleasure.

Thank you for your candor, YOP. I really appreciate it!

Yes, I guess you all are right: it depends who its attached to. I REALLY had the hots for Mr Narcissitic. Then I had to experience what he was like with clothes on.

Favorite line in this whole thread (which I read from p 1-30)

I prefer to look at my partner, but yes, distracting yourself during the act does help at times to prevent premature detonation