SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Change- I agree with you and disagree with 10years. There is nothing wrong with you developing interests. It helps in the healing process. Kayaking is great. So is hiking and working out. For some it might be the theater or a debate club--whatever works. Those interest are only a problem if they interfere with your relationship with your kiddos. On the NC letter, I am not against them as they can be symbolic and therapeutic to some. But, like you, I feel they are only words that can be quickly undone with an underground communication. Actions, not words, are key. You seem to have a remarkable perspective so soon from D day. Stay the course you are on and you will get to the "other side" more quickly than many others on this unfortunate path.

Edited to say I echo Broken Girl's thoughts.

[This message edited by crisp at 6:01 PM, June 27th (Friday)]

Changemaker. I sense a bit of wishy washiness on your part. You're very malleable at the moment and that's not good. You're not taking the blame but you are definitely shouldering most of it and the sad thing is she knows it.

You 180, she says you're pulling away...you cave. What incentive does she have for change?

You describe someone who may be sorry for what they did but still is putting this all on you.

You seem to not want to deal with the no contact issue.

Firstly man up and give the man a call. Currently you're just the faceless voiceless guy OM was disrespecting. A man has the b*lls to sleep with another man's wife then he can sure as heck take a phone and speak man to man.

Your wife might start respecting you and respecting the 180. You might start reclaiming some of that shattered self respect as well.

Don't call the POS. He is nothing to you and calling him will do you no good.

Either way the man and his wife need to establish firm no contact rules. Write him, call him whatever. It must be done. She breaks NC you know where you stand in relation to R.

Well, I found out more details about the affair. He is a man at her work - a low level labourer who has since been fired. He is 10 years my junior (9 years younger than her).

A lot has happened, but yesterday we went to couples counsellor, where I insisted on NC before I would even contemplate anything further. WW was visibly shaken by the amount of information I had.

She is now staying primarily with her mother and I have the kids while she "works on her".

I am, however, meeting with a lawyer on Monday to discuss next steps.

Our relationship was already shit because I didn't think I loved her anymore, and this immature, deceptive, whorish behaviour conducted without regard for our children at all has lowered my opinion of her so low I fear there is no coming back.

Oh yeah, I think he knocked her up and she is contemplating abortion.

Man, this is quite the life I lead.

Thanks to all of you staying hard on my case.

With all due respect. If you didn't think you loved her anymore why didn't you let her go in the first place? That's no way for anyone to live. I'm sure she did feel that you didn't "love" her anymore especially since you admitted it. You both may have been in the mindset that you two were just there for the kids. This still doesn't excuse the affair that she chose to have. She could've chosen to divorce you but she didn't. I know hind sight is 20/20 and you've admitted your faults. It sucks that it takes a thing like this to make one realize how they were living their life all wrong. I for one have had to learn some cold hard truths since my wife did what she did.

I'm not attacking you by any means or saying the affair is your fault and hope you don't take it like that. That's some pretty hard news to swallow especially if your wife is knocked up. Let's say she isn't. What do you plan to do? Obviously you love her or you wouldn't be as devastated and bothered as you are. A lot of damage has occurred on both ends and your marriage is going to need a major overhaul. If there is an ounce of love left between you and her you owe it to yourself and to your kids to try and reconcile. It takes two people to do that.

Like everyone else has said you don't have to make a hasty decision right now. Work on getting yourself stable. Establish firm boundaries and expectations. Use the 180 to detach until you are sure that she is on board and wants to reconcile or if you even want to reconcile. If it were me I'd be finding more out about this sorry excuse piece of shit especially if he's married. I'd inform his wife about this. There's a good chance that he will drop your wife like a hot potato. You will also have 2 pairs of eyes on the situation. The secret fantasy will most likely die because they are being brought back into the real world.

Check her phone as often as you feel that you need to. Look at the bill and check the itemized texts and phone numbers. If she has a smart phone check the apps that she has on her phone. There are many apps that you can use to text and call from that are undetectable on the phone bill. I've heard of people downloading these every day and erasing at the end of the day. Check her icloud to see what all she's downloading. Last but certainly not least if you feel that she is still hiding things from you schedule a polygraph for her. Tell her you've done so and if she wants to stay in the marriage then the lying has to come to an end. You'll probably get a parking lot confession and won't even have to go in.

You've got a long road ahead you from here on out. Keep posting and reading. You'll get better advice here than you will anywhere else (at least in my opinion). We support you in whatever path you choose to go. Just make sure to keep your eyes and ears open. There are many people here who been there and done that. Let their mistakes prevent you from making the same ones.

I just didn't remember if I loved her. In fact, I had just started IC when DDay hit.

I want to try for the kids and all that, but I'm tired and not sure I want her. That's today's roller coaster anyway.

Eating right, running and spending time with my kids for now.

Will your kids be better off in a loveless M where Mom and Dad live in the same house living separate lives or if M and D separate and can concentrate on the kids? You won't be as free to engage in sports and cycling if you have kid time to deal with, but that's the downside.

Where is WW's remorse? Haven't seen a word on that from you. She might be upset her fun time is over in Happyland, but what is she doing to show you she knows she deeply hurt you, endangered the M, and endangered the family?

Don't rewrite marital history, either. Don't tell M was over before you left on your long trip. That just gives her a reason for the A.

You had no lawyer plans then, did you? You may not have been happy, but you didn't have an A or file for D. You sought help.

Don't bother worrying about OM. He's just a vehicle for your W's affair. Could have been somebody else just as easily. He didn't care about you then and won't care about you now. He broke no wedding vows to you, she did.

Our relationship was already shit because I didn't think I loved her anymore, and this immature, deceptive, whorish behaviour conducted without regard for our children at all has lowered my opinion of her so low I fear there is no coming back.

Think back to when you believe had come to this realization, then compare against how long ago her A started. If they are pretty close, consider that what you think is YOU starting to lose your love in her maybe the same time when she started to divert her attention and affection to the ass-clown at her work. Have you suggested she write out a timeline of her A for you? Dates, places, details of the A? Push for this if you can.

Oh yeah, I think he knocked her up and she is contemplating abortion.

Do confirm this. It does make things more complicated for you in your D process. DO NOT discuss anything to WW about meeting a lawyer or anything about a D if you haven't already. If you have mentioned it, say no more. From here on just collect information.

Change,

There is nothing good that can come of you calling OM even if you know how to get hold of him. He could give a shit what you say and was just content banging a married woman with no strings attached.

Your anger and actions should be with your wife, There would have been no affair to talk about if she had not voluntarily climbed into bed with him multiple times.

Personally, i would skip the MC until you get what is required to heal something like this

NO CONTACT - and you can verify it

REMORSE- not a getting caught, that is regret

TRANSPARENCY- she cheated/she has no rights to secrecy or privacy

COMMITMENT- she wants to make it work with you

Until you get these things and believe it there will be no successful long term R.

Do NOT accept any of the blame for this. You two had problems but you did not choose to bang another woman. This is on HER.

Do not let some MC stooge take your money and minimize this (read the thread on MC in JFO).

Find one that knows something about infidelity and your attorney can probably help you on that one.

Do not accept her getting miffed about any snooping you want to do.

And i would be careful about detaching physically too much as she may use that as a reason to rationalize what she did and may do. But do not kiss her ass trying to make her happy.

And lastly. See your attorney and get the papers drawn up. You can rip them up at any time but she needs to understand there are consequences and blaiming you is not going to cut it.

ChangeMaker

I do understand where you are coming from. I really do.

But when I listen to you and see your wife past decisions to have an affair, un protected sex and possibly pregnant from the OM it leads me to believe your wife is suffering from some serious issues.

Since you have the kids and your wife is out I think it is wise to visit with an attorney.

At the same time you should ensure your wife is meeting with a good therapist.

She definitely needs the help.

What country are you from?

HM

I'm from Canada.

I don't know that she's had unprotected sex or that she's pregnant, but her browsing history showed that she has been reading/searching about being pregnant at 40, best and worst times to get pregnant in relation to your cycles, and how long after sex to take a pregnancy test. She says it was related to a conversation she was having with her cousin about a friend... riiiiiight.

I also just realized that this may be how her previous marriage ended. It's a conversation she had with her ex on Facebook, and looking back it seems like the same deal. She was not happy, so cheated, then told him it was over before she cheated (to justify it to herself).

Anyway, I'm trying to focus on me, but I'm having an awful day. I am crushed and feeling very alone. I took the kids to the beach today, but other than that, I am having trouble with them. I'm just trying to keep it together.

They go to daycare tomorrow while I go to work, and I don't have to pick them up until 5:30, so that should allow me to get prepared for them. Then there's not a lot of time between then and the dinner bedtime routine.

I feel like I'm feeling worse and worse.

We have another appointment on Wednesday with MC, and I have IC on Friday, but I just feel so confused and sad.

She is still being cold and distant to me for the most part. She does send me conversational texts every now and then.

I have to go to work today, but I don't know how I'm gonna function.

I'm at work, but can't focus on anything.

WW is still staying at her mother's until tomorrow night because I'm going out with some friends. We still have a MC appointment on Wednesday, where the counselor plans to discuss the logistics of us living in the house together. WW also has some IC sessions scheduled. She says she needs these to help organize her thoughts.

I have no way of knowing whether she is honouring her pledge of NC. Even when she's in the house, her phone is locked and I don't know the code. She will not willingly let me see. I am confident that the affair continues, with or without physical contact.

I have been reading a lot here and implementing the 180, but it's very difficult because I've had the kids myself for the past several days and I don't have a large support network here in town. I do have some very patient and supportive people a phone call away though.

As I've said before, I'm not even sure I want this relationship to continue, but I want to give it my best shot so if my kids ask me about it in the future I can honestly tell them I tried. They'll have one parent with high moral standards at least.

I am amazed, in reading the various threads here, how many A's are with OM/OW who are by all measures lesser people that the BS in the relationship. It's the same with me; he is an uneducated, unemployed labourer, with no real prospects at all. I guess it makes her feel good to be the brains of the operation.

I find it very hard to restrain myself from "making any life decisions" right now. I often feel like starting separation proceedings and getting on with the show.

I have not mentioned that we are not married. We have lived in a common-law relationship for about 7.5 years. I asked her to marry me a few years ago, and she said yes but never made any plans that I knew of. In the midst of all this she tells me that she had purchased a wedding dress and even looked at venues, etc. It sure would've made me feel a lot better in our relationship to have known all this.

Her phone being locked is the first big red flag of her NOT honoring. If she does not give you total transparency there can be no R. If you read the other threads you will see what happens when the BS lets the WS have their way on this.

I do not know what MC does when one is still in the affair. And right now you have no indication she is not and she refuses to help you know.

I know that transparency is important, but she's not there yet. She openly says she doesn't know if she wants to try at the relationship.

We are only going to MC right now to work out some rules and logistics of living in the house together. I said the same thing as you BadHurt; MC is pointless until she commits to our relationship.

I hate it, but have to accept that there's nothing I can do to make her try. 180. That's all.

I forgot to mention; I am now taking anti-depressants (which I think I've needed for at least 2 years) and ativan to help me sleep. The ativan is helping a bit, but I don't think the anti-depressants have kicked in yet (not even a week).

[This message edited by ChangeMaker at 9:55 AM, July 7th (Monday)]

I am amazed, in reading the various threads here, how many A's are with OM/OW who are by all measures lesser people that the BS in the relationship. It's the same with me; he is an uneducated, unemployed labourer, with no real prospects at all. I guess it makes her feel good to be the brains of the operation.

It is VERY common. We call it "Affairing Down" around here. The reason is the wayward connects with someone who is deficient as an individual to ACCEPT this kind of behavior.

After all, what upstanding individual would accept being in an affair knowingly with a married person?

I had to take my eldest daughter to soccer after work today, so WW picked up the little one and took her to her mother's for dinner.

When she brought her home, I asked if she'd talked to the OM to tell him NC. She said she'd talked to him but "not long enough to have a conversation".

I played it cool, gave the girls a bath, and pretty much ignored her.

She just left without saying goodbye.

We have a session with the MC on Wed to discuss guidelines for living in the house together and she has IC the same day after our meeting. I will tell her and the counsellor that I will not participate in MC until she commits to our marriage. I will wait for her to have another IC after that, then if she doesn't commit to our relationship, I will begin drawing up a separation agreement.

We are not married, so I can't file for D, but if I present her with a separation agreement she'll start to see I'm serious.

Personally though, I think she wants me to do just that. That way, in what's left of her mind, I ended it, not her.

I forgot to mention that I had about 20 minutes of normalcy today. I went to get some healthy food for myself to eat and while I was there I found I wasn't really thinking about "it".

[This message edited by ChangeMaker at 6:28 PM, July 7th (Monday)]

No matter what your arrangement is, you'll,still have to coparent. Don't reject counseling on that topic just because you will not be reconciling.

We had a major confrontation last night.

She came by to drop off my youngest daughter before heading back to her Mom's for the night (supposedly). While she was there I asked her point blank if she'd told OM that it was off and NC. She said no, she hadn't had time, but that she had spoken to him. She gave her word to me and the counselor five days previous that she would. So I went back to my business. 180.

Later, I get a text from her saying that she has "been noticing that things are not getting better between us and only getting worse. I feel the resentment".

So I asked her if she wanted to come to the house to talk.

She responds with "I think you're a good person and a great father to our kids and I'm at the point where if we continue with floating like we are it will just end up not being friends and I don't want that".

That last text took a while to arrive, so just as it arrived, she picked up the phone because I had called her. I asked her where she was, and she said "in a parking lot". I asked where and she told me, then I said "right by his house, then." She was shocked that I knew where he lived.

She told me how she feels me looking at her and feels the tension when she's around the house and she doesn't like it. I asked her what she thought it should be like; that there are not 3 people in our relationship. How the fuck am I supposed to carry on as normal when my wife is still having an affair! She asked how I knew she was still in it and I said "You told me so a couple hours ago!" She then told me that she had broken it off with him in the intervening time. I have no real proof of this, of course.

She then went into a course of blame shifting and dodging around, trying to blame me for the affair. She started getting very upset when I continually reminded her that she is 100% responsible for the affair, I take no responsibility for any of it and I never will. I also told her that when the time comes to own my shit for where our relationship ended up, I will do it. I am not blameless there.

She started getting angry because I insist on focusing on this affair first and the broken marriage we had after that. She then started to minimize what she will have to do to move this forward. I told her our marriage is a house, and it's on fire with this affair. You don't try to find the cause of the fire while you're house is still burning - you put the fire out first!

I told her about opening her life to me (phone, email, FB, computers), and she didn't like that. She fumed about what she has to do.

Finally I just told her to read the book the counselor recommended (After the Affair) to understand my feelings, her feelings and what must happen to move forward. She finally agreed and came over to get the book. We clashed a little more when she got there.

She's very upset because I have been confiding in some of my close friends that I met through her. I told her they're my friends, and that's up to me. They had the chance to tell me that they didn't want to know about it if they wanted to.

I explained that the IC she will be attending is part of this whole process, and will help her sort out her thoughts and feelings, but I won't wait around forever that to happen if the still has any affair under way at all - EA or PA.

Even though it was very emotional, and I said a few things I probably shouldn't have, but overall it felt positive to me. She is clearly half way out of her mind, and I think the fog is lifting. I'm not overly optimistic though, until I see some real change.

Until then, 180 continues.