SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thanks everyone.

But the fact your wife has been in an affair and the fact that this affair might end your family… IMHO does not entitle you to call her a bad parent. No more than she can claim being in an affair because you were a bad husband.

Bigger, I have to respectfully disagree with you on this...although we may have different interpretations. Is it only the children that get to grade their parent(s)? And who would I be to dismiss my WW's opinion of me being a bad father for legitimate reasons?

Like you stated, we have been around here awhile, and I believe our philosophies are very similar---although you have a gift of putting the point across concisely and affectively. I would never pit my children against us. But I will try to be the strong, moral parent that we talk about here. My boys' mother may never get her act together. Someone has to be the strong presence...although it should come from both parents. I just don't want to dismiss her poor behaviors outside the "typical" parenting role that have peripheral impacts on the children.

Small t/j---welcome aboard as a poster, livinganew. I hope you continue to post. End t/j

Brandon and Holly,

You are right in the fact that she hasn't worked the steps properly....and this is where I need to do a little inward looking. There is no doubt that she has put a lot of time and energy into her sobriety, but obviously not all in the proper areas. I don't know if I would call her a dry drunk, as I have witnessed her do this in the past, but she is getting near her core issues as she works the steps...and then for whatever reason, is avoiding them. So now if she is working on sobriety, her faulty wiring is going for something else. At least that is my $0.02 psychological opinion.

Now for my introspection---how did I miss this? I know that it is not my job, and not something that I am intimately familiar with, but if I at least saw and recognized this misguided effort, I could have made my future decisions based on this knowledge. I wouldn't have wasted(and yes, that is the exact description of my feelings) the last three years. I wouldn't have thought that my marriage was actually getting STRONGER each day that we moved forward.

Hell, I was virtually RECONCILED in my mind 2 days ago.

but she is getting near her core issues as she works the steps...and then for whatever reason, is avoiding them

The reason is because she is in fact getting near her core issues. She doesn't want to truly address them. She doesn't want to take that final step towards true personal accountability. At least that is what I inferred from her actions.

Now for my introspection---how did I miss this? I know that it is not my job, and not something that I am intimately familiar with, but if I at least saw and recognized this misguided effort, I could have made my future decisions based on this knowledge. I wouldn't have wasted(and yes, that is the exact description of my feelings) the last three years. I wouldn't have thought that my marriage was actually getting STRONGER each day that we moved forward.

Hell, I was virtually RECONCILED in my mind 2 days ago.

Gently... I wonder whether this piece is beating yourself up for not catching what your wife did. I invite you to table this.

One thing at a time. You have the rest of your life to process the last three years.

You are in yet another, shocking, trauma. For your and your sons' sake, I invite you to 1) be gentle with yourself; and, 2) focus on what you must do to survive it--one day a time. That's all.

I'm so sorry you are going thru so such a shit sandwich and pray for your strength.

[This message edited by livinganew at 1:18 PM, July 4th (Friday)]

Got some sleep after 60+ hours without. Definitely helped clear my head.

I have my plans in order. I have 3 consults with different attorneys for next week. I already went this route 3 years ago, but there are a few other questions that I wanted to get the answer to. So I don't expect any big surprises.

I still communicate with my WW. I can be cordial, but I don't need a bunch of chit-chat. I can still detach while having some basic conversations. I am letting her know my interpretations of what has transpired in the last days, and what I believe that she should be doing. Her story makes sense with the way events transpired, enforcing my belief that she is NOT a master liar and manipulator---she is just a serial cheater with some FOO issues that are really in need of being addressed. I do believe that she wants to get better. I do believe that she is still lost, full of regret, but doesn't know the correct path to remorse. I am hoping that she finds it this time around. I do believe that she has even joined here, so the good people over in the Wayward Forum can help show her the way.

I still need to press forward with the divorce. I need to get myself out of this current disaster, and then decide my future. I will be fine no matter what choice I make, but I need to make that decision from a clear mindset.

Good morning jb3199 -

You're not alone. After wasting 3+ year in R, it's over for me. No, not false R from another affair, but no real remorse, fight, with him saying "i want a divorce'. OK pal - you got it.

So here we are.

I don't pretend to have specialized knowledge in addiction or wayward behavior. But I re-read your initial post and had a thought.

The one constant in this mess has been you. You are that constant. You have always been there for her when she's picking herself up out of one mess or another. There must be some degree of comfort to her knowing you are always be there for her.

Because of this thinking or attitude or belief, I think you should,continue your plan to file for divorce and detach from her. To dissuade her of what I believe to be her core belief that you will always be there for her. Her cushion against hitting rock bottom if you will.

She will then have to decide to continue on her current path to rock bottom or fix herself for good. Fixing herself, whether you divorce or not , will benefit kid.s. She will remain Mom,,but possibly be a better one.

I know this does nothing to solve your problem, but it may aid the family.

BTW, I'm glad you got some sleep.

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 9:38 AM, July 5th (Saturday)]

what about the douche-y OM that she says she loves. The one that trolls AA meetings for willing women?

Does she still love him? Did she throw him under the bus? Is she willing to drive the bus over him?

what the heck? How can she say she loves him but then be willing to throw him under the bus?

what is going through her mind? Who is she blaming?

Was it actually a PA? I'm sorry if you already said it. I think you said it was an LTA and an EA.

btw - I agree with you . Someone who continually cheats on their spouse is not putting the welfare of their children first. Which is what I consider an important part of being a good parent.

Hi JB. This is the first time I'm in this situation to be cheated on so sorry if what I'm saying doesn't make sense. But is there any kind of recommendation how many chances one should give? How many times should a loyal spouse go through the misery, work hard on reconciliation and be disappointed again? How many years should one invest? It breaks my heart to read how much pain many of you had to go through already. If you spend years and years of your life constantly rebuilding what the cheating spouse destroys, you might get into this rhythm and not find your way out? How many reconciliation attempts are too many? When do you lose sight of the 'better life out there' with people who don't cheat and torture each other?

not sure if I should answer this, if it was directed just at JB or anyone... but I guess JB can answer too.

Tigaress, I think the answer to your question is directly proportional to how much pain you can handle or are willing to put up with. Or maybe it has to do with whether you believe the person will actually change. But I know one thing, there is nothing wrong if you *know* that even once is a dealbreaker. When someone cheats on you, there is nothing that says you have to fight for them at all. The answer is in you. Either you still want to be with them, or you don't. Just make sure you actually know who they are, not just the person you want them to be.

I don't have any new advice to add to the heap of excellent advice you have already gotten..

I just have prayers and hugs..

I pray that you find the energy and resolve to make the healthiest choices for you without getting lost or stuck...

People get lost or stuck when they believe that their best path out of this mess is an unsustainable/unreachable one...

So take care of your own physical/mental health and energy first and foremost...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 9:54 AM, July 5th (Saturday)]

@ Tigress and JB...

I am a BS who had her first D-day 27 years ago..Second D day a few years ago followed by false R.

39 year marriage down the tubes..

I am almost 60 and am retired due to health reasons..I want to file for D now, but I don't have the means or the resources to deal with a contentious divorce yet..

So for the moment I am stuck in house (separation). WS un remorseful..

So to answer your question of how many chances should you give a WS? It varies....

Whatever gives you the peace of mind that the WS is too broken of a person to be a good R candidate..

You will know when you are done trying..Don't let pride or peer/family pressure be a big factor in your choices.. With that said, PROTECT YOURSELF before you give any R a try...

I cannot OVER STRESS this next piece of advice!!... Have enough resources in your life (emotional, social, FINANCIAL) to give you the choice to walk away should you choose..

IMHO, for good R to happen, walking away needs to be practical enough to happen immediately so one doesn't feel STUCK in the marriage..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 10:33 AM, July 5th (Saturday)]

I'm so sorry you find yourself in this mess after all this time believing you were reconciled.

I think I know what is going through your WW's mind. A resentment and belief you haven't been there for her emotionally. The OM strokes her ego; tells her and shows her he loves her and she just laps it up; all that wonderful attention and validation. Silly woman.

Now she is in a dilemma. She is habitually used to a life with you, even though she doesn't have much personal love similar to what she shares with OM, but the OM isn't available, being a chronic loser. So if you divorce her she can intensify her relationship with loser boy, but she can see eventual disaster looming and a possible return to alcoholism.

She is such a destructive person who makes bad decisions. Why would you want a shared future with someone like that?

((Jb))

I could have written your post for the most part. Dday#1 11 years ago. WS sobered up(drug addiction). Dday #2 march 17/14. It blindsided me. I truly thought that there was no way he could have watched me go through so much pain and do it again but he did. I also have a child with special needs. It really adds a whole other dimension to it for me because there is no "when the kids leave home".

I'm sorry you are hurting today.

After wasting 3+ year in R, it's over for me. No, not false R from another affair, but no real remorse, fight, with him saying "i want a divorce'. OK pal - you got it

Painfulpast,

You're right. I think that the one of the worst betrayals is not only that they cheat on you, but aren't willing to fight for you. It makes you feel like you never really mattered.

The one constant in this mess has been you. You are that constant. You have always been there for her when she's picking herself up out of one mess or another. There must be some degree of comfort to her knowing you are always be there for her.

Because of this thinking or attitude or belief, I think you should,continue your plan to file for divorce and detach from her. To dissuade her of what I believe to be her core belief that you will always be there for her. Her cushion against hitting rock bottom if you will.

Schad,

I absolutely agree with you. Not only that, WW definitely believes this. Not so much in the sense that I will always take her back because I am weak, but in the sense that she can't visualize life without me....therefore she *knows* that I will always be there.

That is why continuing forward is important to me. I am not trying to be codependent here, but I do believe that divorce and detachment can help twofold--give me a definitive line which I am no longer legally obligated, and for her to have a chance to see life without me. We'll see.

what about the douche-y OM that she says she loves. The one that trolls AA meetings for willing women?

Does she still love him? Did she throw him under the bus? Is she willing to drive the bus over him?

what the heck? How can she say she loves him but then be willing to throw him under the bus?

what is going through her mind? Who is she blaming?

Was it actually a PA? I'm sorry if you already said it. I think you said it was an LTA and an EA.

Mike,

I don't know what the fuck that she was thinking when she said that she loved him. She has backpeddled from that statement, but she was the one who put it out there. Oh, and by the way, it was EA, PA, and LTA.

I don't understand why she wouldn't want to leave me, and move in to the basement of douchebag's father's house---it looks too exciting to resist. I would have to laugh if I didn't realize that he has been screwing her for the past 2.5 years...while I was amazingly unaware. I can't believe how much that I can keep my emotions in check. That POS scumbag only lives about 15 minutes away. I could drive over there, reduce him to virtual non-existence, and be back home before I miss 1 Judge Judy episode. WW is learning the whole list of dos and donts as it pertains to NC, but the truth is, that is her problem to deal with. She can call me 20 times a day to tell me where she is, or what she is doing, but that means NOTHING to me. My verification days are long since over.

But is there any kind of recommendation how many chances one should give? How many times should a loyal spouse go through the misery, work hard on reconciliation and be disappointed again? How many years should one invest?

Tigaress,

Sorry that you had to find us. Just know that it does get better, and you have a lot of influence over how your recovery goes.

Like mike7 said, it is entirely up to you. In my opinion, you can attempt reconciliation as many times as you want...but it should be done from a position of strength.

Too many people reconcile, or attempt to, out of fear. Fear of losing the one that you love, fear of financial loss, fear of children(custody, time sharing, and everything else that goes with them), and often, the fear of the unknown. If any of these are the lead factor as to why you attempt to reconcile, then I believe that you are making an unhealthy choice....because fear was the driving force behind your decision(s).

Now, if you get yourself to a mental state that you can end this marriage, and accept that while many things may change(a lot of them not for the better), it is better than staying in your marriage out of fear, then whether you choose to attempt either R or D, it is a correct choice....because it is a healthy decision. You know that you have the strength to leave, if desired. It is then a choice of your own free will.

I cannot OVER STRESS this next piece of advice!!... Have enough resources in your life (emotional, social, FINANCIAL) to give you the choice to walk away should you choose..

Doggiediva,

Very sound advice.

The one thing that I have going for me, is that I am willing to blow everything sky-high if necessary. I will file bankrupt, and start over again today, then to force myself to stay in a marriage that I don't want. And while this scenario may not play out for many, I know that I am comfortable enough in my own shoes to obliterate everything....if need be.(That doesn't sound like a good parental decision, but I could make arguments to that).

By the way, I have always thought that your signature line was awesome.

I think I know what is going through your WW's mind. A resentment and belief you haven't been there for her emotionally. The OM strokes her ego; tells her and shows her he loves her and she just laps it up; all that wonderful attention and validation. Silly woman.

Now she is in a dilemma. She is habitually used to a life with you, even though she doesn't have much personal love similar to what she shares with OM, but the OM isn't available, being a chronic loser. So if you divorce her she can intensify her relationship with loser boy, but she can see eventual disaster looming and a possible return to alcoholism.

She is such a destructive person who makes bad decisions. Why would you want a shared future with someone like that?

OK,

Validation is what it is all about for her. That is why I didn't understand the "love" statement for the loser. She doesn't seek the high and the butterflies of an affair, but more so the validation, that someone is paying attention to her. And her validation could just be recognition for a good deed, like buying some items for her grandmother. That "thank you" and "you are so thoughtful" comments that get her high...just like some asshole willing to say anything to get in her pants.

I could have written your post for the most part. Dday#1 11 years ago. WS sobered up(drug addiction). Dday #2 march 17/14. It blindsided me. I truly thought that there was no way he could have watched me go through so much pain and do it again but he did. I also have a child with special needs. It really adds a whole other dimension to it for me because there is no "when the kids leave home".

JustOneMoreDay,

There should be a special punishment for huge time spans between betrayals. I would be willing to bet that after 11 years, you reached a level of trust AGAIN that you would have never thought possible after your first betrayal. It is beyond words.

And yes, I expect our son to be with us for our lifetime. He may show interest in an assisted community environment in the future, but I would highly doubt it. He likes routine, and his routine is at home. But I won't let his situation prevent me from moving forward. He is very attached to us, but more so to me...so as long as I put my focus on him, he would be happy living in a tent.

Wow what a head screwed on straight contrast to many posters here.

When is her "d day" coming when she gets the news that you are done as a married couple?

I'll bet you can sleep at night now. And remember I'm up at zero dark thirty three mornings per week to give you a bed check

But how are you doing today?

I'm doing okay. Thanks for asking.

I feel the anger starting to surface in different areas. I hit the gym today with such a fury, that I was hoping my heart would explode inside my chest. After I came home, a good friend asked if I wanted to go golfing. I haven't picked up a club in over a year, but I figured it would be a perfect opportunity...I have declined several offers before(usually due to work), and getting out of the house should be good for me.

So while I am glad that I went, I didn't enjoy it like I should have. I had a ball of anxiety in my chest that I just couldn't get rid of, and my lack of play had shown right through. I thought that I would have had a better time, but I couldn't get my mind in the right place.

Tomorrow is a new week. I have some attorney calls to make. I have to keep forging ahead. I told my WW that I am not trying to punish her, but I am going to tell her things that go through my head, so she can get an idea of how my mind works. Maybe it will help with empathy.

For example--I posted just before Thanksgiving of last year about how we lost our little yorkie Sophia when we were leaving for vacation. She got out from our back yard, and was killed on the highway. It is still crushing to this day. She was a sweetheart.

The problem is that I associated her with my WW's sobriety. We got her after she stopped drinking, and I equated her with WW's new beginning. It was a new innocence, and the bond between the two of them was a-once-in-a-lifetime type of connection.

Now that I know differently, I see that little yorkie differently. It is not her fault in the least, but I now see her as not only gone from my life, but as a trigger. Fuck my WW for doing this to me. I am so pissed about these last three years.

JB,

Sorry for the lateness of this post, but brother, I am so sorry for this shit.

What a waste.

Strength to you sir. Wish I could do more for you, as you've always done a lot for me (even if you didn't know it.)

If you tell her things that go through your head without using the brain/mouth filter, she'll know all about you and when she has successfully pressed your buttons. She is sly and devious as you have unfortunately learned. What stops her from using your honesty and openness against you? And what do you gain if the M is over, anyway?

Not being harsh, but remember those police shows: "anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law"? Its true. Its easier for her to twist your words than it is for her to twist your silence. She isn't your counselor and she isn't your pupil.

"I am sorry you feel that way but that's how things worked out" is a good, all-purpose reply to any tantrums she throws. Maybe she won't. But I suspect she'll grow tired of your lack of interest in her reformation. And resent you for not being reliable ol' jb for her.

I'm sorry. You know many of us here have been lied to and betrayed more than once. It's easy to believe someone you love. I'm terrified I'm in the same boat. I'm hyper vigilant and my wh seems very remorseful. This time. But in the end there is a saying (no not fool me once...gag!) but " a bird on a branch never worried about the branch breaking because he knows he can fly!" Please fly and take care of your heart.