SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I appreciate it Badhurt. I simultaneously dread and look forward to being a vet, sharing my experience with new people in this forum.

For now, my stomach is in a knot and i'm in a fog. I'm in the same excruciating pain i've been in, for months. I want this damn pain to go away already!

thanks again to all, for sharing your experiences, advice, and insight

Deceived

Now is NOT the time to thank anyone because you will need advice more than ever on the upcoming period. Just remember, no matter what happens, it is highly UNLIKELY that there is not someone here who has not had a similar experience . Your support network here is thousands strong .

The way you feel right now is no way to live forever.

Find a good lawyer and give her the shock and awe she has given you

DG,

Although I am new to this site, I am not new to your experience. I discovered April 2010 that my husband had been sleeping with a friend of mine. The 4 of us went on vacations together, we were part of a larger friend group. It was devastating. I went to a lawyer the week I found out.

I told mowh, as he was (still is) a friend of mine. He left her that afternoon. She cried to my ex, and he was furious with me. His plan was for the two of them to continue their affair. He made me out as the perpetrator and used it as part of his excuses against me. They aligned together against the awful betrayed spouse who told mowh the truth when he asked.

What followed were 2-3 months of gaslighting, lies upon more lies. I just wasn't ready to take action. I was in denial, I wanted to believe what he was telling me (they were only friends, he had stopped all contact, wanted only me, loved only me, etc etc), but my gut told me it wasn't the truth.

I put a VAR in his car when he went on a 'business' trip. I needed to hear definitive proof. That was what I needed to move forward. I heard things that hurt me greatly. I heard ex and mow plot against me. I heard everything I needed to hear to finally move forward. I threw him out that night. He cried and said he was sorry. Then he left my house and went to her.

I never revealed to him my proof and I wouldn't advise you to ever reveal it either, if you go the same route. None of her business.

I also hadn't worked in 8 years, but I got my mba in the process and done a few things to keep my hand a bit in, if you will.

He never returned, and I wouldn't have taken him back. I would never have been able to trust him again. Too many lies. The week I threw him out I learned that she wasn't his first affair.

4 years later, I am divorced 2 years, I have gone back to work, and I am still healing. I am 54 and on my own. We had been together a long time, 20 years.

I didn't want a divorce either, DG. I wanted to reconcile until I heard the contents of that VAR. I didn't know how I was going to make the transition back to work, how I would survive financially. My attorney advised me to wait to return to work until after the divorce, and I got a good settlement taking into consideration how long I had been out of work, how I supported ex when he started his business, etc. Ex had to pay me alimony, etc.

My advice to you is if you need proof then get it. Not everyone needs proof, but some of us do. I needed it to be able to let go. So I would advise the following:

1. Get a couple of lawyer consults, find one you trust. Take all of your financials with you when you go see the attorney, all assets and debts, past tax returns etc.

2. Get the proof you need. Put a VAR in the car if necessary.

3. Start putting all of your attention and focus on you and your children. Go dark with your wife, detach detach detach.

4. File as soon as possible. The earlier the better. If nothing else if there is any guilt it helps during settlement negotiations. If she's able to work her way back to you, OK. If not, you are taking steps to protect yourself and your children.

Remember to breathe. You will be OK. It's scary now, but you are going to be OK.

Salt, thank you!

I am going to be 49, next week. I am afraid of the financial as well as the social implications.

I.T. years are like dog years. If you're out one year,it may as well be seven. I've been out for eight years. When we moved eight years ago, I had a job lined up and my wife begged to switch places. She was stressed about being home with two toddlers all day and wanted to go back to work.

After a few discussions, I reluctantly agreed.

So, I've been a stay at home dad, with the occasional part time job, for about eight years.

I know this isn't the time to think about it however, I'm also the type of person who craves intimacy and affection. The thought of being alone at 49, also seriously bums me out. Thanks to my WS's A, I lost over 40 pounds in one month. As I tried to gain weight, I joined a gym. I now have the best body I've ever had, including a six-pack. The gym has been my saviour this entire time.

Because I don't like being alone, it is that much harder to initiate legal proceedings. I'm going to do it, though. I have no doubt that WS is having another A. I suspect it's a good looking kid she hired as her assistant. After agreeing to go to the office later (one of the Times she had sex at work during the last A,was before everyone else got there), she is incrementally leaving five and ten minutes earlier, then another five minutes earlier, etc...

She once told me her new assistant gets there a little early. She said his mom drops him off (he's 23 and supposedly lives at home.

I wouldn't be surprised if WS swings by and picks him up now.

Her sister, who recently became a psychologist, married a guy half her age. I suspect her sister has been telling her that the A wasn't her fault because she's a victim.

To rationalize her A, my wife created a fake history of the past two years. She makes it sound like I was an unsupportive, detached, drug-addled husband and our marriage was falling apart.

A) I'm the most over-protective, loving, supportive husband and father you'll ever meet. B) I've saved every email and text message I've ever sent or received since the late 90's. Our correspondence clearly illustrates that everything has always been normal and our marriage wasn't in trouble until Nov/Dec when my wife started showing signs of an A.

So I think my WS' s sister, who knows about the previous A, has been an echo chamber for her, completely justifying her actions (in her mind).

All this week, I haven't chased after my wife for sex, and I'm not commenting about how early she's leaving for work. I'm detaching, best I can although it really hurts.

Sunday morning, to keep me pacified, she'll ask me if I want to fool around (she'll only do it on the weekend, and in the morning so it goes by fast, and she just lays there and doesn't participate. This Sunday, I'm going to have a headache. This will be a relief to her, but also be a little baffling. For one thing, in 16 years of marriage, I've never had a morning headache, but also, I've agreed to sex during 102 fever. I never turn down sex. This weekend I will.

Damn, I wish I could get rid of this pain and fog!

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 5:59 AM, July 11th (Friday)]

I try to give good advice, but along comes a beautiful post like the one from Salt and just about sums up all I have tried to say, in such a heartbreaking account of betrayal and survival.

Thanks Salt; I hope deceivedguy derives help from your wise words.

Deceivedguy, You need to comprehend that your cheating wife doesn't deserve a honorable man like yourself. You are too damn good for her and its about time you understood this.

thanks, OK! I was blown away by Salt's post. I have also been appreciative of others like HurtBad and Swizzlestick, who have been so active in this thread. You all don't know me, and have nothing to gain by helping me. I wish I had found this site back in Feb.

It was tough, but I was completely detached this morning. I didn't act upset over the many triggers my WS set off. I was very matter-of-fact, this morning. She asked several times "are you okay?" and "am I upset with her?"...

Each time, I smiled and said everything is great.

When she left for work, she actually seemed a little baffled.

I feel like crying. Ugh.

Each time, I smiled and said everything is great.

You are doing well with that deceivedguy. Keep that up. I know it's hard, but even you yourself said she seemed baffled. That's because she's not used to getting that reaction. She's too comfortable as it is. As you detach, she's probably going to see it more and more. Pay attention to her reactions.

Sending you strength and courage.

yop

Thanks YOP! That little bit of time acting happy, content, and disconnected, was exhausting. I've been getting crying out of my system before the kids come downstairs. I have an entire weekend of this ahead of me.

I wish my hand wasn't still messed up, so I could go to the gym.

Go to the gym. Use the leg machines, walk on the treadmill...anything to get those endorphins! You need them now.

IMHO your biggest problem is that you don‘t know enough.

I firmly believe that infidelity can only be handled from a base of truth. There are some factors we old-timers will tell you are important for recovery; things like NC, transparency, remorse, dedication, MC, IC… (The list goes on and on).

Each and one of those factors that is omitted makes that base of truth weaker. And each factor omitted multiplies the level of difficulty in a logarithmic scale.

So if you have all the factors lined up your chances of saving the marriage are actually extremely good. Statistically it’s only about 20% of marriages dealing with infidelity end in divorce in the first year post-dday. But have one factor missing and I venture your odds drop by half. Have another factor missing and half that half. Have another factor missing and half that half you halved…

So I go back to you not having enough information.

- You aren’t really sure who OM is. You have an unclear idea about some maintenance guy but that’s it. So you have no way of implementing or demanding NC.

- You aren’t clear when, where, why and how. So you aren’t clear on how you can be made feel safe about what she’s up to. If she’s in finances then how will you be feeling when she does overtime at the end of next quarter? Or before the stockholders meeting? What about those meetings off-site with that customer or representative? You don’t KNOW – therefore you can’t react. You don’t know what SHE can do to assure you.

- She isn’t committing to fixing whatever made her feel a need to get validation from other men.

- She’s not transparent. She’s not offering the support needed for you to feel safe. Yes – we BS need to work towards granting trust but for now and the next 12 months she needs to be an open book.

Is your situation recoverable? YES – DEFINITELY! But only if both want it and work towards it. At the moment she isn’t working…

A key part of recovery is when the WS openly acknowledges that having an affair is not the correct way to respond to whatever the issue was that made them reach the decision to have an affair. When the WS acknowledges that the affair is wrong no matter why and how you look at it.

An even more important part of the process is when the betrayed spouse – YOU – realize that losing your wife is by far not the worst outcome of this situation. What is immensely worse is spending the next years examining her panties, wondering where she is, worrying that the meeting she is at might be a booty call… The ABSOLUTE worst outcome is remaining in infidelity.

Once you make that realization you have all the power you need to move on.

You sit down and list your reasonable and enforceable demands:

A) Clear and unequivocal commitment to the marriage.

B) Total transparency and accountability.

C) The truth – including any detail and name you require.

D) MC and IC as required.

E) NC with the OM.

F) ….

Then you tell your wife something along the lines of:

“Wife. I love you and there is little I want more than this marriage to work. To attain that I am willing to do a LOT of work. I also realize that a lot of that work is in how I behave and interact. However… I have realized that although losing you and the marriage might hurt then it’s IMMENSELY worse to SHARE YOU. That’s what I am doing right now. I am sharing you with one or more OM and that is something I can’t accept. That is something that is worse than losing you because in having an affair and remaining in an affair I have already lost this marriage. All that remains is burying it. So feel free to see OM and have sex with whomever you want – but not as my wife.”

You then tell her that unless she verbally and clearly commits to the marriage and accepts your conditions you are simply assuming the affair is ongoing. By not committing in a clear way then she is indirectly saying she wants to have her affair and thereby ending the marriage.

Get it? You don’t guess or wonder if it’s ongoing. You simply assume that IF she can’t commit to the marriage then she IS having an affair.

And then you go about the business of terminating the marriage.

What this does – amongst other things – is turn the burden of proof around. You have already accepted that she’s cheating. You have already set off out of infidelity. If she wants to come along she has to convince YOU that she is committed.

Divorce is a long, drawn out process. It won’t happen overnight. It’s not as if you file and then two days later she’s out. In fact filing is only one step of thousands.

Start getting a clear picture of your finances, list all stakeholders in the marriage, research divorce in your state and so on.

After this then avoid all arguments with your wife.

Working overtime? Well – she’s simply confirming your claim that as long as she doesn’t commit to the marriage then the affair is ongoing. No need to argue about it – she’s made her choice.

Calling you to let you know she will be late (as if trying to calm you down)? Tell her thanks but not necessary for her to call. As long as she doesn’t commit to the marriage and your conditions you are simply assuming she’s doing Mr. Maintenance.

Complaining about how you were a crappy husband? Well – tell her that you are sorry she feels that way and this would definitely be something you would look into IF you two were reconciling. But since she hasn’t committed then it’s a moot point and doesn’t need to be discussed.

Get it? While she isn’t committed… then you simply move on.

I.T. years are like dog years. If you're out one year,it may as well be seven. I've been out for eight years.

I'm in I.T. and I know exactly what you mean. Don't know if you heard about this given you've been in the circle of infidelity hell, but copy/paste and google the following:

Largest collection of FREE Microsoft eBooks ever, including: Windows 8.1, Windows 8, Windows 7, Office 2013, Office 365, Office 2010, SharePoint 2013, Dynamics CRM, PowerShell, Exchange Server, Lync 2013, System Center, Azure, Cloud, SQL Server,

It's free and at least another reason to get your WW and the situation off your mind and looking into the future. Keep going to the gym the best you can. Refocus your need for intimacy and affection from your WW and instead focus on being there for your kids and show them how much you love them. Spend more time with them. Let them see more of their dad being happy.

Which leads me to this suggestion - can you plan doing something with the kids this sunday morning? It would be better than having to tell your WW that you have a headache. That way you don't have suffer through the awkward moment of gauging her reaction to rejecting sex, then getting pulled into another anxiety spiral. Just get out of the house with kids and go enjoy that time with them instead of having bland sex with someone who just doesn't give a shit about you. You kids care about you, right? So they deserve that time with you.

Detaching takes practice, and soon you will be creative on ways to switch up the old habits by replacing them with good ones.

You sit down and list your reasonable and enforceable demands:

E) NC with the OM.

Deceived,

Bigger gave you the game plan of what you need above very specifically.

So you apparently DO have an idea who she is having an affair with, 23 year old assistant. Guess what, your gut is probably right because that would totally explain the change in her dress to look more like a hot 25 year old. That combined with her sister is at least an idea where the problem lies. When you confront her, you can tell her you are suspecting that and are going to her HR Department and telling them your suspicions and the problems it is causing in your marriage. I guarantee you she and he will be called in to talk about it. She will be pissed as hell when you tell her that and may just blurt something stupid out. You can't really go to the mother of a 23 year old and com[lain to her that her son may be banging a married woman. If you get the VAR in her car, you will find out about that one very quickly, so you need to do that immediately.

As the detectives would say, with the 23 year old

SHE HAS MOTIVE

SHE HAS TIME

SHE HAS OPPORTUNITY

If you are not seeing any long unanswered disappearances at night or week end you know this is all happening during the day at work.

When she asked you this morning if you are all right, all she is doing is probing. I am NOT an expert on the 180 so I will defer to the others because in your situation my approach would be to press her EVERY MINUTE of every day until she cracked and blurted out the truth in anger. I would make every minute in the home the hell that you are experiencing, but you are not me so you have to do what you can live with.

The bottom line is you are not going to solve this in any quick time period unless you file for divorce and force her hand. She now still has all the privacy and secrecy to do whatever she wants and is NOT going to voluntarily turn over anything to you that has not been sterilized of evidence.

As far as Sunday morning. Personally, I think she will be relieved she does not have to service you and can save her energy for her boyfriend, so again i look at it a little different. To me, you are giving her exactly what she wants. I'd bang her brains out laughing all the way knowing that divorce papers are headed her way and user her like she is using you. i guess i am just a nasty SOB.

So proceed like you are doing, get to the attorney to find out your rights, and back her ass into a corner.

And cry all day if you have to, so that there are NO TEARS in your discussions with her. You must show her ONLY cold, calculated demands or consequences.

The wondering at this point is miserable for you. You know in your gut she is still having an affair and you cannot prove it yet.

You wonder why she acts that way towards you and makes you wonder and guess and imagine and blame yourself. The self doubt always ends up creeping into those conversations with yourself.

Her leaving early in the morning, does she have an answer to that when you ask.

Can you have her followed by a friend?

If you can get the name of the OM who she had the original affair with, you can probably get her mind out of the fog.

It sounds odd that she would go from having an affair with a boss to a 23 year old. But, the boss could have dumped her and the 23 year old is a revenge affair.

Sure makes you feel like you are on the outside looking in.

Which will change as you gain more control over the situation and you will. I do think that the WS thinks the situation stays the same while the BS is living in some kind of vacuum where none of this affects them.

But that is when their fantasy world crumbles when they find out their BS was not oblivious or living in a vacuum. Continue to gain more control and do not let her affair rule your life.

I'd bang her brains out laughing all the way knowing that divorce papers are headed her way and user her like she is using you. i guess i am just a nasty SOB.

Ahhhh...I wouldn't, because STD's are a bitch. Why risk exposure? Just a thought.

Among the other benefits of detaching your WS no longer feels you are on to them, they relax their guard and get careless. By all means continue the investigation, GPS, VAR, keylog, hiring a PI, etc. Go dark and observe and collect information. I think one is more likely to get that evidence when the WS thinks they are back in control and resuming the A.

jduff, thanks so much for the info!!! i've been out of the loop. i havent gotten an MS cert in years, but I'll look into all of that material.

my surgeon doesnt want me to go to the gym (even cardio) before my first physical therapy appt. However, there are many things i can do with my girls. I have been the primary caregiver for 8 years and i'm also the fun\immature parent. I often do things with them that my WS woulndt even consider. This is where my 8 years as a summer camp employee pays off.

My wife and I usually wake up before the girls on sunday. One of us drives out for coffee and bagels (the only gluten treat the kids can have, usually). Then we hang out on the porch while works and i study. I foolishly enrolled in a college course in the middle of this mess!

When I wake up, I'm just going to head downstairs as fast as i can, to avoid the invitation.

I had her get tested for STDs after the admission of the first affair. I think she is playing the field and has multiple flirts and possible A's.

When i first got her to admit, she didnt know what proof i had so she admitted to sexting with ANOTHER guy who works for her company, in another office!!!

Because she thought I was spying on her she admitted to hugging a guy in public, downtown after her kung fu one night. Another young good looking guy. She thought I saw them hugging (i didnt) so she said she was consoling him. More reasons why i need to face the truth and get out. She appears to be a slut. At this point, I don't know who, or how many.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 10:21 AM, July 11th (Friday)]

I think your wife will get alarmed when she sees signs of you giving up on the relationship. Right now she thinks she is getting away with her exciting adultery and you will be there when the affairs taper off and its back to the old routine. Your past reliance on sex has convinced her that she can manipulate you this way. All she has to do seduce you and you will cave completely.

In conjunction with ending the sex life don't show any anger, just tell her that your are tired of fighting for the marriage and you are close to giving up. No emotion, just weariness at a marriage gone bad. What your wife fears more than anything is indifference; as long as you are emotional you care. Then stop showing emotion; thats what the 180 is about; pulling away and not caring; looking after yourself and the children's interests.

Just imagine if you were cheating what would you fear? As long as your wife was tearful and angry she still cared. But what if she became indifferent and cold? Then you might get worried.

I would not tell her you loved her and want the marriage to succeed above all. The twisted mind of the WS will see that as a weakness to be exploited and your misery will just be extended. The key is indifference and the 180. Convince her you no longer care if she screwed the entire Dallas cowboys football team in one session, as long as they cleaned up their mess after them.

If you then file for divorce she will know you mean it; you have moved on; hopefully sticking her with child support and alimony payments.

Deceived,

It's good you are now facing the reasons why you have to get out. If there are multiple affairs going on of some sort, and you believe there are, you are out of options, and you could be living like this a long time trying to unravel it all.

There is too much going on for you to have to be worried about proof. Work has become her preferred cheating zone and you will not be able to infiltrate it easily GET THE VAR if it will make you feel better.

i think in your heart you know enough.

Work has become her preferred cheating zone

Maybe not if she is hugging a guy after kung fu class. Sounds like it could be anywhere and anyone.

The best reason for the continued snooping and getting real evidence once and for all, is so you will never have to wonder if you did the right thing at some point in the future.

You won't have to hear her always tell you were wrong and nothing was going on.

I understand you already did get proof, and at that point you were willing to R. Oddly, your hard core evidence didnt seem to bother her at all.

This is the best advice you've gotten. Please follow it:

Once you make that realization you have all the power you need to move on.

You sit down and list your reasonable and enforceable demands:

A) Clear and unequivocal commitment to the marriage.

B) Total transparency and accountability.

C) The truth – including any detail and name you require.

D) MC and IC as required.

E) NC with the OM.

F) ….

Then you tell your wife something along the lines of:

“Wife. I love you and there is little I want more than this marriage to work. To attain that I am willing to do a LOT of work. I also realize that a lot of that work is in how I behave and interact. However… I have realized that although losing you and the marriage might hurt then it’s IMMENSELY worse to SHARE YOU. That’s what I am doing right now. I am sharing you with one or more OM and that is something I can’t accept. That is something that is worse than losing you because in having an affair and remaining in an affair I have already lost this marriage. All that remains is burying it. So feel free to see OM and have sex with whomever you want – but not as my wife.”

You then tell her that unless she verbally and clearly commits to the marriage and accepts your conditions you are simply assuming the affair is ongoing. By not committing in a clear way then she is indirectly saying she wants to have her affair and thereby ending the marriage.

Get it? You don’t guess or wonder if it’s ongoing. You simply assume that IF she can’t commit to the marriage then she IS having an affair.

And then you go about the business of terminating the marriage.