SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi All

I must say this is the best worst place to be...thank you guys for this site and for all the information. Reading about other people going through the same problems (and worst pain ever...) is strangely comforting and at least helps one to realize that you are not alone and not crazy.

I do not know where to start. Me and my wife have been living together for the past 16 years. Moved in together right after school. She was and I supposed still is my first love. I knew she was the one the first time I saw her. We were great friend for a long time before it became a serious relationship. So about two year in she cheated the first time with an ex. We worked it out and moved on. About two years later she admitted to another affair with one of her university lectors. We worked it out and moved on. But it was never the same after that. We were engaged at that staged. A year or so later she had another and another and another... We broke up. Was a very difficult time for me. I moved on, sort of. She came back to me. Said she was sorry. We went for counseling, and got married. Married now for eight years and in the last year things came to light that she kept from that happened back then. She had numerous partners, even strangers; threesomes...had relationship with her former boss before we got married. I found out about it. She told me it happed and that she stopped it. That nothing happened after we got married. LIES.... They had relationship on and off or probably three years...she was basically his fuck buddy...he is much older than her. We actually became good house friend with him. Guess the joke was all on me. She promises that nothing happened after our first baby was born. All thought she did not break contact with him, in fact, I trusted him with her, I work away from home allot and thanked him for help her with stuff...BiGGEST bloody fool ever. While back I told her I'm done. Finished with all her lies. She is still keeping things from me. Still have secrets. Have been seeing councilor for couple of months. I stopped it because she encourages my wife not to tell me everything. Told her to go fuck herself. Found amazing counselor. Straight talking, caring person that knows what she’s doing. Here is my big problem: Can't decide what to do. We have two kids, which we both love to death. If I leave her I will only see them less. Don't want to raise them in a broken home. My wife's parents separated when she was very little and I know the impact it had on her. I'm afraid to trust her ageing. Think she really got the picture this time, she opened up about things, but not sure if 100% truthful. I love her. I can't deny that. But I am mad as hell and disappointed in her actions. I feel betrayed and humiliated. Worst thing is that I’m away for work again for 6 weeks, out of country. Help, advice, anything?

This is the first time I told anybody bout this accept the councilors. Can't bear to tell family or friends any of this.

(Sorry for spelling, English not my mother tongue.

Sorry you find yourself here.

I find it hard to advise anything but D based on just the facts you've shared.

Before and during your M your WW has been a serial cheater and lied throughout your relationship. You may love her but her actions show no regard for your M or the stability of your family.

When I moved out I let me xWW know it had nothing to do with love and everything to do with trust.

See a lawyer and protect yourself asap.

Welcome CJBear. I heard you loud and clear. I'm very sorry you are here. That is a lot of baggage and serial cheating that has happened with your WW. If you stay with her, obviously there are no guarantees. Does she still work with her affair partner (AP) that's her boss? If so, that one will most likely happen again at a minimum. She has to have NO CONTACT (NC) forever with any of her affair partners. Know this. None of this was your fault. This is all on her. As such, it's all on her to fix herself as well. You cannot fix her. So if you stay, what is she doing to fix her brokenness? That would have to be a lot more than figuring out her why she had all of these affairs. That would include how she is broken. That would include going to independent counseling (IC) to figure this out.

I'm also not one to stay together for the kids. That is the approach that my father took at the environment in my house turned toxic growing up. Quite honestly, I wished my parents had divorced rather than go through that nightmare. Two unhappy parents staying together is a lot worse than two parents separating and having a more stable environment. There is so much serial cheating there, IMO, I don't see how she could get better without a lot of very serious hard work. Knowing what I know about affairs and what I lived through with my parents who "tried to make it work", I would get out. Especially with the amount of anger and resentment that you seem to have.

Here are some posts that you may want to check out it you haven't already. You can find most of the abbreviations here in the upper left corner in the Healing Library. Please check that section out as there is a lot of useful information in the healing library..

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/library.asp

Read up on the 180 so that you can decide if you want to use it later. It is designed for you to detach and can be found under BS FAQ here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

And more 180 info under the target thread here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785

I would also recommend reading these target threads in the Just Found Out forum:

Tactical Primer

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

Great Posts for Newbies to Read

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=361740

Boundaries and Consequences 101 for all new BS

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=385631

Before You Say Reconcile...

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

Please read these as well as prep for any sort of upcoming confrontation that you may have with her:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/no_contact.asp

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/boundaries.asp

Keep reading. Keep posting. We are here for you CJBear

yop

Don't want to raise them in a broken home.

I know how it is. But at some point, looking at your M, do you think they are already in a broken home?

I've been fighting like hell to make sure my kids grow up in an intact family. At some point though, the struggle will break me. I can't do it on my own. Neither can you.

Your WW is very broken and her choices are breaking you. Until she begins to make choices that build up herself and the M you're already raising the kids in a broken home.

Dear CJBear,

I'm sorry you are having to go through this. This is a wonderful place to get advice and any words of wisdom or encouragement. I have received support from people I've never met and feels comforting knowing you're not the only one going through infidelity from your spouse. I am not an expert at this as I myself am in a M that has issues and am hoping for R but my WH is seeking D. From what I am reading it seems that your WW has a serious psychological issue. Although that doesn't justify any of her A you seemed to have known what you were getting into even before you got married. For someone to cheat all those times before marrying gives you an idea of how your relationship's foundation is non-existent. I understand that you don't want to split up your family in fear of having a negative impact on your children. Honestly you have to remember that if you aren't happy and can't take care of yourself because you're staying in a M like this then who will be taking proper care of the children. Children see and know everything. Your WW doesn't seem to have any sense of commitment. Im sorry this is so hard but you honestly need to start a process towards D. If she is really making any changes herself then let her show you from a separate residence. Let her know this is not a game but something sacred and important. She needs to se up her game and do IC, go to church, see a pastor anything it takes. A person will only change through the power of Jesus Christ, other than that is a fake or pretense and will eventually fall back into temptation since their foundation is not based on God's power.

I wish I could tell you how to feel better but no words can take the pain away, sometimes knowing you were a fool makes you feel worse than the actual physical act of your spouse with another person. Just know that it had nothing to do with anything you did wrong. It was all you WW's own corrupted soul. I will pray for you :)

Thank you for the reply. I will work through the link you shared. Little bit more back ground. I know she’s is broken. She knows she is broken. She went for IC the last year about and has in a sense realized a lot of things. She was sexually abused from a very young age. Never dealt with it. I spoke to her councilor about what was wrong and she tried to explain to me. Her whole way of thinking is preprogrammed to please others, especially men, in a way to protect herself. She is starting to deal with this. For a very long time I wrote off allot of wrong doing to what happened to her when she was little. I tried to help her, sometimes it help, sometimes it doesn’t. She is an amazing woman. And I wish I could reset her in some way to make her “normal” I told her the other day that I’m keeping her responsible for her actions, I know what happened to her, she knows, there is help available and I am nothing but supportive. But she made the choices. She knew the consequences. I really want to give her another chance. She is not seeing the other person anymore. She knows what the limits are and so far everything is going well. She is really showing signs of change, unlike the previous times... Is it possible for a serial cheater to change? Allot of the things happened when we split up, so I guess allot of it is kind of a grey area....I know how that sounds.

We are still in a questioning fase, and so far there is no defensive answer or argument, just answers... I don’t want to leave if this is actual change taking place. We infest so much in a life together. The romantic in me is hoping for this great happy ending?

Sorry you are here.

I highly suggest you purchase DNA kits for all the kids.

It's important for future medical issues that may come up.

I cannot tell family or friends either it is very humillating for Men (especially), for women it is too, but I think it is diffent.

You have an odd situtation. You need to speak with a Psychologist (PhD) who has studied sexual issues who can comment on this very unusual self destructive behavior.

I'm very confident you will learn that your WW has a toxic mental problem and you will need to get away from her.

My wife has had seceret affairs PAs and EAs, but nothing on this level, ..my Lord, threesomes. etc!! That is maddness.

She has a private life you cannot be a part of and it could cost you your life.

RUN FOR THE HILLS and take your child with you!

Good luck

[This message edited by steppingup at 2:59 PM, July 10th (Thursday)]

CJ Bear,

Based on what you have written, it os obvious you have been in an open or polyamarous marriage for 16 years but just have not realized it. You were not responsible for what happened to your wife. What you ARE responsible for is tolerating it for all this time and not either demanding it stop, meaning it, and leaving her.

She obviously has no boundary control around men, and why you think that is going to change is beyond me. I had a somewhat similar problem, not exactly, but i did D IMMEDIATELY. Two years later she won me back, and she knows if any other behavior like that happens, the result will be instantaneous and identical. Because the consequences were proven to her

Your wife has done this over and over again with no consequences, and your first MC was obviously a quack.

You are using your child as a reason to put up with this. The fact is they know what is going on more than you think and millions of children of divorce turn out fine.

If you cannot gather the strength to rid yourself of this person, at least admit it and do not use your child as cover.

I think your post said you are in Africa. if i were you id be heading for the furthest continent you can find with your child and leave your wife to service all the men she wants to wherever she is.

The price of keeping your family intact will be tolerating more of her cheating. The deeply rooted psychological problem of being a SA cannot be cured that easily. Certainly not by some fleeting resolve from your WW.

You really do need to DNA check the parentage of your kids; she's virtually cannot say no to any request for sex, so why do you think she would ensure the children are yours?

Next question. Why are you still married to this woman?

My situation has similarities to yours. Sexual abuse adds a whole new level to this issue. A friend on here told me she was abused and lost her sense of boundaries. I believe that. I also know good people can do bad things and not associate what they are doing as hurting the marriage. I can't second guess your wife but only she can only decide to fix herself. You can't fix her. I agree with the prior post. She needs a firm wake up call and for you to set firm boundaries.

CJ

Only you know how much more you can take.

Everyone is right about setting firm boundaries and what the consequences will be.

I know a few BS's that divorced over these types of transgressions but stayed with their divorced ex.

They felt the marriage was so abused from all the cheating and broken commitments that they nullified the marriage as a consequence.

Show your WW some very tough love. She needs to get the counseling to stop hurting herself by her bad choices.

Because when she hurts herself she is hurting you and the kids.

A good counselor can work with her.

HM

At the moment I am away from home. I work in the oil and gas industry. This gives me alot of time to think and put everything into perspective. I can't imagine getting a devorce. A part of me knows it is the right thing to do.

Maybe I'm just to weak or scared.

The other problem is that if we get a devorce, with my work I would def not get custody of the kids, and in any case in SA, my home country, the husband rarely gets custody of the children. It opens up alot of other concerns like where is she going to stay? Move back to her parents house with our kids? That is the last place in the world I would want them to be knowing what happend to her when she was a child? And who will she bring in to their lives and what will they be exposed to.

We are seeing a good councelor at the moment. I am desperately looking for a psychologist that specialize in survivours of childhood sexual abuse. This is a big part of her problem. She is realy showing signs of remorse, she is starting to open up. I have set firm bounderies for her and she knows, I made that very clear, that this is the last time. I told her I am still deciding whether to stay or go and I think she realizes this and is also concered of what this will do to the kids.

I have lost all faith in everything. In my life partner, someone I thought was a friend, in myself, in my religion. I was actualy very proud of here for changing and being different the first time...

It's all just one big mess!

(((CJBEar)))

I don't want to minimize childhood sexual abuse, but her past doesn't really matter in terms of your choice now; what matters is how she has treated you. No excuses, no trauma, no deep dark suffering makes her behavior okay. You are letting her be the victim--but that only makes YOU ripe for victimization. And listen--you can't save her from her demons. Forget about that.

I hope she gets help but you need to get distance from her. Why did you allow her to trample the relationship so many times? Why can't you separate yourself from her? I think you really need to examine what has allowed you to minimize and rugsweep her constant betrayals.

Have you seen a lawyer who could advise about custody? Could you change your job in order to be the primary parent?

CJ Bear,

Norabird has it right. Your efforts over a long time have produced absolutely no results of a positive nature. We do not forgive criminals because of their childhood, and you have made a career of allowing her to trample all over you with more affairs that i can count. You need to really look into the why of that yourself.

You are obviously successful in your career and business relationships, but you have let yourself be a door mat forever.

There really is no good answer if you cannot change anything. History has an unfortunate habit of repeating itself as you can surely attest to.

Something has to change in the dynamic here, and it aint going to be her.

I see no need to leave at this point. You're both in counseling, she's starting to be more self aware, you need each other logistically and financially. As long as she's willing to be transparent, you can work through this. Can you get hold of a copy of His Needs Her Needs? It's a great book about affair-proofing your marriage. Both of you should read it and do the work it suggests.

I‘m not going to suggest divorce but your view towards it has to change.

If you take that option totally off the table you are saying “what she does is less important than remaining married”. So basically if you come home from work tomorrow and find a line of lovers waiting outside your door you are impotent to act.

Divorce has to be on the table. It has to be because it is one of ONLY two ways out of your situation.

Two ways out? Yes – reconciliation where your wife really finds her cure and you two work on the marriage – or divorce.

What will she do if you divorce? Will she get custody?

Well… Is she a good mother?

How about child-support? Alimony? If your kids financial welfare is your prime motive and your wife a good mother then an option could be that you financially support them despite divorcing your wife.

Ok. Yesterday I typed her a long e-mail, explaining my how I felt and so forth. I explained to her what I wanted from her and asked a lot of questions. Then I got an idea. I wanted her to know and experience what I am going through. To make this reality of our situation more real to her. I thought up a story of myself being unfaithful to her. I did not do anything in real life. I would never do something like that to any person. But I formulated the story around one night recently that I went out with a friend to blow off some steam. I told her I picked up a girl at the bar and took her to home......and so on. I explained to her beforehand that I want her understand the emotions that I go through. For her to imagine this happed in real life...

She totally and completely broke down when she read it. She believed everything as fact because she remembers that night and everything added up. She decimated by what I told her and cried right through the night, would not speak to me at all and was an emotional mess.

I felt horrible about what I put her through thought I really messed up any chance reaching her. It destroyed het completely. And I thought I ruined the progress we made with the counseling up to this point.

When she did finally speak to me again she could not stop crying and I really thought she might do something to herself. I called her stepdad to please go to her and help. She lost her mother 4 years back and he is her only real family I trust. She confided allot of things in him that we never told anybody, family and friends for obvious reasons.

We talked again later today and she can no understand what she put me through so many times and is very remorseful. She opened up allot and answer allot of questions and even admitted about lying about certain things. Her affair happened 5 years ago. It was not really a relations ship. Just basically casual sex that her boss at that time asked of her. It happened on and off for about two years... apparently ending before she got pregnant and had a miscarriage. She promises the nothing ever happened again after that and that he tried again but she resisted and removed herself from the situation.

She tried very hard to change, and have been living with this secret over her for the last couple of years.

We are still putting all the pieces together and she is more forthcoming with the information.

What I thought was a huge mistake might have turned out to be just what was needed.

cjbear

stay tough.

There is nothing wrong with loving a person that has hurt you.

And while she needs professional help to deal with the past abuse don't forget to get some counseling for yourself.

You are both dealing with trauma.

Good Luck

HM

That just it. I do love her. Very very much. We have been through so much... I have investem so much of my life in this woman. Yes she is flawed, yes she needs a lot of help.

She is really open about what happened now and it is a lot less worse than what my imagination conjoured up. I believe she is sencere and honest this time. She agreed to STD testing when I get back home. She assured me there was no one before our first borne was concieved...

I am feeling better about everything now...but realise it is still a long road ahead and I am carefull not to let her think otherwise. This truly is a emotional rollercoaster.