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Reconciliation :
Not satisfied with WW's effort. Am I being unreasonable?

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craig2001 ( member #55) posted at 6:44 PM on Thursday, July 24th, 2014

She then says that she was getting things from OM that she wasn't getting from me.

You have to explain to your wife that she doesnt get it at all. She is not thinking like a mature adult about any of this.

Her reasons are ridiculous and you know it.

She needs to understand this right now. Affairs are fun, easy, better than marriage and the OM can give them all kinds of things.

Well how hard is that? Does the OM have to listen to her complaining. Did the OM have to deal with her while she was sick. Does the OM have to worry about your house payments and all the other bills.

How easy it is to hang out in bars as if nothing is wrong. It is easy when you don't have to worry about that woman's problems, bills and complaints.

Tell her if the OM is so wonderful, have him pay all of the bills and put up with her excuses.

Ask your wife how she would feel right now if this situation were reversed. You had an affair because your wife wasn't giving you what you needed. And you still worked with her every day.

How would your wife react and how would she feel.

If she says she would be okay with it all, than she is in complete denial about everything.

posts: 7391   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2002   ·   location: USA
id 6884183
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Commanche1 ( member #39692) posted at 7:21 PM on Thursday, July 24th, 2014

For the sake of your family, you and your wife need to be in joint counseling in order for the both of you to get the tools necessary to effectively communicate in order to reestablish a marital relationship. you should give your wife the commitment that you will try based on her trying as well. some one needs to be the leader and that someone should be you.

posts: 109   ·   registered: Jun. 27th, 2013
id 6884234
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atsenaotie ( member #27650) posted at 8:58 PM on Thursday, July 24th, 2014

...you and your wife need to be in joint counseling in order for the both of you to get the tools necessary to effectively communicate in order to reestablish a marital relationship.

I disagree with this suggestion. It has been my experience, and that of many others, BS & WS alike, here on SI that until the WS has had time to identify and own their issues, to “de-fog” from their affair-think, that you end up going around and round in joint counseling on issues that were trumped up, miss-interpreted, or only existed in the WS’s head.

Even before stbx first had sex with her first OM she was blaming me for what was wrong in the M. This continued until after dday. In her words, I was broken and that is why I drove her to have a “fling”. I suspect your WW may have followed a similar path. Know what, I was no more broken than anyone else, maybe even less broken. She was the one with boundary problems, miss-conceptions, FOO and personality issues. Until she was able to understand and own these issues MC was mostly useless.

...you should give your wife the commitment that you will try based on her trying as well. someone needs to be the leader and that someone should be you.

You should commit to healing yourself; accepting your new reality, processing your anger, resentment, embarrassment, and all the rest. If you want to be generous you can commit to not file for D for 6 months so long as you feel safe in the relationship with your WW and you see her making an effort, making progress, and sustaining that change.

As a part of this healing you should, if you have not already, visit with an attorney or two to understand your rights and exactly what D would be like in your jurisdiction. You should start creating a financial reserve in case you need money to separate and D. You say you avoided conflict in the M, work on that in IC. Practice healthy confrontation and conflict with your W, at work, with your children.

Once your WW can explain to you how and why she had her A in a way that makes sense to you, once she can tell you what is different than before dday to make it safer for you in the M relationship, once she can explain why she wants to be M to you, that is when she will be ready to work with you on the M. At that point, if you have worked on your stuff too and stuck around, you will probably be feeling some pride in your W for her efforts, and ready to accept her as a full partner to work together on your M.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 3:00 PM, July 24th (Thursday)]

LTA FBS
dday 10.5.09
Divorced

posts: 4173   ·   registered: Feb. 19th, 2010   ·   location: FL
id 6884378
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wert ( member #34478) posted at 9:12 PM on Thursday, July 24th, 2014

I think atsenaotie and sisson are on the money. I would add a couple of things.

My W's reaction sounds similar to yours. She also had an A at work. Trust me on this one I scared the shit out of her when I found out. I wanted heads on spikes, hers included. Once I calmed down a little I stopped telling her she needed to figure out why she has the A. I told her that if she wanted me around anymore she needed to figure out how she betrayed herself? Unless, lying, cheating and generally behaving like and awful person are within her ethical bounds or normal, how was she able to allow herself to do those things? Is that who she is? Because right now that is who she is showing herself to be. If not, why did she do those things and how will both of you be confident that she won't do them again? What does she need to change to be an authentic human being who doesn't lie, cheat and deceive?

That is all much harsher than why did you have an A, but in reality I think it gets down the brass tacks of who WS are when they choose to cheat. That's what she need to fix.

Trust me on this one, if you work on healing yourself, you will be better before her if she really tries to figure it out.

As for the MC things suggested, I actually agree - in a year or two when she pulls her head out of her ass. Right now this is not about your M because you no longer really have one. She blew that shit up. You guys are in crisis mode, not communication mode.

take care...

take care...

[This message edited by wert at 3:15 PM, July 24th (Thursday)]

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 PBST2 (original poster new member #43948) posted at 9:52 PM on Thursday, July 24th, 2014

commit to not file for D for 6 months so long as you feel safe in the relationship with your WW and you see her making an effort, making progress, and sustaining that change.

I think it gets down the brass tacks of who WS are when they choose to cheat. That's what she need to fix.

I'm struggling with what I should expect to see if she is truly making an effort to "fix herself". I hear some people telling me that I need to be specific with her about my expectations and how I will measure progress, and others telling me that I shouldn't need to spell it out for her--that if she ever becomes truly remorseful and empathetic, she will change behaviors on her own. Do I give her an ultimatum for things like finding a new job or reading the book, or do I need to see that she will do it on her own because she realizes it's important for me and our hopes of R?

I have very little hope that she will ever consider IC. She has told me that she essentially doesn't believe psychotherapy/counseling is helpful based on family counseling memories from her childhood. I also have very little hope that she will start demonstrating more empathy by her own volition. What I think she wants is for time to heal my wounds so that I can forgive her and move on. She actually thinks she has given me good explanations for the affair (what I wrote in my previous post). It's like we're still communicating on different wavelengths, and I'm not sure how to change that.

Regarding her job, is there a strong consensus here that WS needs to leave the workplace if the A is with a coworker? Or are there some who believe R can happen without it? I think I am strong enough to deal with any insecurities I have about her and AP continuing things at the workplace, but maybe I'm delusional. Is there a general agreement among infidelity experts about what should happen? Complicating matters, she is in line for a promotion that could happen within the next couple of months that would make her AP's boss! She told me that if anything, it would be more of a deterrent because she could be fired for the A.

Me: BH - mid-30s
Her: WW - mid-30s (EA & PA w/ coworker, ~5 months)
Married 11 years, together 14
D-days 6/20/2014 & 7/2/2014 (continued EA)

posts: 41   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2014   ·   location: Midwest, USA
id 6884458
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FrmrBH80124 ( member #42967) posted at 10:21 PM on Thursday, July 24th, 2014

She told me that if anything, it would be more of a deterrent because she could be fired for the A.

I wouldn't put much faith in that deterrent. If she really wants to rekindle the A, she's going to and will have plenty of excuses for contact since she would be his boss. Unless things go sideways or someone else complains to HR, nothing will stop them if they choose to resume.

The only deterrent that will be effective is a complete change and her becoming a safe partner with clear boundaries of what is acceptable behavior in a loving and committed marriage.

ME - BH 45
Her - XWS 30
D - April 2010 - never looked back and good riddance.
Happily remarried!

Though much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days
moved earth and heaven, that which we are,

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Badhurt ( member #41947) posted at 12:22 AM on Friday, July 25th, 2014

She told me that if anything, it would be more of a deterrent because she could be fired for the A.

I wouldn't put much faith in that deterrent. If she really wants to rekindle the A, she's going to and will have plenty of excuses for contact since she would be his boss. Unless things go sideways or someone else complains to HR, nothing will stop them if they choose to resume.

The only deterrent that will be effective is a complete change and her becoming a safe partner with clear boundaries of what is acceptable behavior in a loving and committed marriage.

PBST2

The above completes her total taking of control again. I have followed your thread from the beginning, and after much hard work you were on the right track be giving her your demands for MC and possible R. Now what she has accomplished is the following, despite getting some aggrevation from you:

(1) still gets to spend all day long with the OM that she was banging weekly or more, and who she is obviously still emotionally and physically attached to. Of course you can not compete. lets reverse the situation and say you had a real piece of ass co-worker who you were having an affair with and who the sight of gave you a hard on.Now your wife busts up the affair, but you get to spend 8 hours a day staring at her tits and ass because she lets you continue to stay in workplace with this hottie. Don't you think the odds of this starting up again are greatly increased by this situation.??? And isn't is convenient that out of the clear blue she is now up for a promotion that is a reason she needs to stay in the job.

(2) She has had no real consequences other than a little dust up because you outed her OM, but it appears that the wife of OM either doesn't give a shit or he has he fooled because your WW would be telling you his troubles if there were any

So now you have a situation where you are basically right back where you started because nothing has really changed for her. You will continue to be compared to him and the excitement their hotel outings provided, and if she does get promoted and he is her direct subordinate they will spend MORE time together and possibly travel to meetings together. That ought to make your stomach turn.

Now, lets address another issue that I think you have confused. You got almost total agreement here that she should be away from him, however that had to happen. You will NOT get anything but a lot of different opinions as to what people think the outcome will be because no one has a crystal ball. But if you want to play the odds, you have two people physically and emotionally attracted to one another who have been in a sexual relationship that are together all day long. And you have absolutely NO WAY to monitor their conversations at work at all. If anyone was betting that you have not allowed the "perfect storm" for a restart or continuation of the affair, id like to bet with them.

Could you get lucky. Sure. But they do not even work in different parts of the organization.

So I disagree with the thought that you will be able to manage anything in this arrangement, and she will continue to blame you for being insecure while her and loverboy spend every day together.

Until you do what you need to do, i think your only chance to stay on top of this is to hire a PI to watch her workplace after work for a while and get a GPS and VAR in and on her car.

And lastly, if she wants to keep that job, and you still allow it, she needs a lie detector test at some point of your choosing or you unfortunately have a very good chance of being here again in JFO.

I am sorry if i seemed harsh but the guys who have drawn a line in the sand and do not let it be crossed suffer less pain and hurt in the long run

You have already had two D Days here. I would think you wold be able to do without more and would take every step humanly possible to insure the best possible outcome. MC is a waste of time. She is still in the affair.

posts: 1097   ·   registered: Jan. 6th, 2014   ·   location: Eastern USA
id 6884600
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AML04 ( member #39682) posted at 2:02 AM on Friday, July 25th, 2014

My H still works with OW. I am 99% sure nothing would ever happen between them again but it is still hurting me and slowing our R. That he has to spend 8 hours a day in the same building with her kills me (and they don't have to communicate at all). He is looking but it isn't financially possible for him to quit without another job making the same amount or more.

If it's possible for you, make it a requirement of R.

Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

posts: 876   ·   registered: Jun. 27th, 2013   ·   location: MA
id 6884703
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craig2001 ( member #55) posted at 2:11 AM on Friday, July 25th, 2014

Do I give her an ultimatum

No. They are a pain to back up.

Even if she quit her job, the affair could continue. So, that is up to you.

She needs to read that book, Not Just Friends and some other books.

She needs to be completely transparent and give her all of her passwords and access to the phone. Even though that doesnt mean a great deal since she talks to him every day.

She has to be accountable for every waking moment as to where she is.

Too bad about her feelings, she needs IC because she is lying to herself and to you about the WHY.

She is taking too much control of this situation when she deserves none.

If she cannot even read a book to help, I would think she doesn't really care about getting through this the right way.

And if it is swept under the rug, she will do it again, because there is nothing stopping her.

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WalkinOnEggshelz ( member #29447) posted at 2:25 AM on Friday, July 25th, 2014

PBST2,

I want to weigh in here as a FWW. I am sorry for the pain you are in but I can tell you that your WW is not ready to truly R with you at this point. To many of the things you are reporting indicate that her head is still firmly planted inside her ass (I apologize for being so blunt).

Your wife is doing many things that I can relate to, the defensiveness, the crying, the wounded dog look. I understand you love her and want to R so I want to encourage you to take a strong stance on what your expectations for R are. Had my BH not been chrystal clear regarding what he needed from me, what his expectations were and ultimately us being on the same page about things, we would not be here today.

Like others have mentioned, she needs to start reading...voraciously. But there is another bit that I think you really need to address before you can move in anything like a forward direction.

I softened my stance and told her that I'd see how it goes. I know she would resent me for making her leave her job, as absurd as it sounds, and same applies to contacting her HR department.

First of all, I don't imagine she will ever be able to have empathy and be truly remorseful and focus on you and your M while continuing to work with her AP. NC can not be established while she has daily encounters. So the only way that she can have any kind of firm NC in place is to find another job.

I can tell you from personal experience that this will be necessary for any kind of peace of mind. I didn't work with my AP. He actually lived hours away from us. What I did do, however was tell coworkers that I was having an affair. People that I worked closely with. People that I spoke poorly of my husband and our relationship. People that I built up the MOM to. After DDay, I went back to work and it gnawed at my BH that I was continuing to work with people that one, knew personal details about his life that he didn't and two, had unfair opinions about him. These were not friends of our M. My BH tried not to let it bother him. He tried to let it go because he knew I loved my job and didn't want me to resent having to make changes. I even argued with him on our way to counseling telling him I wouldn't be bothered by it and I thought he was making too much out of it. It turned out to be a sticking point. In order to R with my BH I needed to demonstrate that he was more important to me than the job. I went in and asked my boss for a transfer. As a WS, it was a great lesson in humility and empathy.

Do you really feel that you can find peace with her going to work with her AP every day? There needs to be conditions to R. Those conditions may differ from couple to couple but there are some basics that are pretty universal.

NC

Transparency

Honesty

Empathy

Remorse

Without these it will be impossible to R. It may take her some time to get there. But it sounds like she needs you to be firm on your conditions. You can't stand up for yourself only to bend minutes later. She sees you doing that and she will take advantage of it (either consciously or subconsciously). I didn't take my BH seriously until he actually walked out the door after my last bout of TT. I knew it was the last straw and he wasn't messing around. So stand firm on your beliefs.

Good luck,

WOES

If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

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SeeingRed ( new member #43015) posted at 11:56 PM on Saturday, July 26th, 2014

Just from a legal standpoint if you and her "agree" she is to be a SAHM now then you are on the hook for paying for it. It will play out if you decide to D as if you DEMANDED she quit her job and be a SAHM and YOU now owe her for making her quit her amazing job..

Do NOT fall into this trap and realize she is setting a giant trap. Her asking for you to legally sign off on this now is a huge red flag. She's not stupid. The less her income is the more of your income she gets.

Tell her to get a new job. No SAHM stuff right now and do NOT ever ever EVER sign anything.

ETA:

If you can have the "I don't want you to be a stay at home mom but get another job" convo via text or email DO SO.

[This message edited by SeeingRed at 5:58 PM, July 26th (Saturday)]

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Gr8Lady ( member #36307) posted at 12:23 AM on Sunday, July 27th, 2014

So now you have a situation where you are basically right back where you started because nothing has really changed for her. You will continue to be compared to him and the excitement their hotel outings provided, and if she does get promoted and he is her direct subordinate they will spend MORE time together and possibly travel to meetings together. That ought to make your stomach turn.

Additionally she is justifying staying at job because of possible upcoming promotion.

You need to heal, first and foremost from the betrayal.

Until both of you are working, truly working and communicating the R is one sided.

Remember the saying, " you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink"

If WW isn't all in for R, she isn't in at all.

BS: Me (70yo)FWH: HIM (72 yo)) serial infidelities over past 35 years
DD: Multiple unconfirmed until 2013

friends wife lasting 10 years. TT over a
year a year. Now his health is declining,
among the lack of communication.

posts: 762   ·   registered: Jul. 31st, 2012
id 6887019
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Gr8Lady ( member #36307) posted at 12:44 AM on Sunday, July 27th, 2014

My W's reaction sounds similar to yours. She also had an A at work. Trust me on this one I scared the shit out of her when I found out. I wanted heads on spikes, hers included. Once I calmed down a little I stopped telling her she needed to figure out why she has the A. I told her that if she wanted me around anymore she needed to figure out how she betrayed herself? Unless, lying, cheating and generally behaving like and awful person are within her ethical bounds or normal, how was she able to allow herself to do those things? Is that who she is? Because right now that is who she is showing herself to be. If not, why did she do those things and how will both of you be confident that she won't do them again? What does she need to change to be an authentic human being who doesn't lie, cheat and deceive?

Wert nailed it with this reply. I ❤ it, sorry heads on spikes I identify with too. I am the quietest calmest person, and that is so not my nature to feel that type of rage. Betrayal turned me into a suspicious, untrusting person. I didn't like what the A did to me and us.

I had to heal, and I have. Trust me it took years.

My hope for you is healing, only then will you be ready to make sound decisions in your best interest. You are worth it

BS: Me (70yo)FWH: HIM (72 yo)) serial infidelities over past 35 years
DD: Multiple unconfirmed until 2013

friends wife lasting 10 years. TT over a
year a year. Now his health is declining,
among the lack of communication.

posts: 762   ·   registered: Jul. 31st, 2012
id 6887026
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MC_Jack ( member #35016) posted at 1:21 AM on Sunday, July 27th, 2014

To chime in and answer your original question, I think all hour requirements are reasonable, but at 2 weeks out you may need to be more patient with your WW. Mine transformed quite a bit at around 5 months out. She was saying and doing a lot of the right things, but deep I side there was still a bunch of toxic shit that still needed sorting out.

I think when a woman commits adultery, there is a lot of emotional distortion and denial that is involved that doesn't go away immediately. As the book Not Just Friends points out, women get more emotionally involved in As, and that emotional 'stuff' doesn't go away immediately.

I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

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 PBST2 (original poster new member #43948) posted at 5:34 PM on Thursday, July 31st, 2014

I would like to give an update and get some advice on how to proceed. Maybe I am not handling this in the best way.

Here is a summary of the past 6 days:

We took the kids on a mini-vacation to one of those indoor waterpark hotels on Saturday-Sunday, and we all had a blast. WW and I talked at dinner, and again after the kids were sleeping, and we felt very close to each other and positive about the future. Of course, no sex because WW apparently couldn't stomach it with the kids sleeping a couple of feet away (wouldn't have phased me--they're 3 and 5).

Going back to work this week has been a struggle. I've been unproductive and overcome with negative thoughts. WW hasn't really done anything to show empathy this week. Her thought process seems to be: "we had a great weekend, we should both be happy now". She hasn't asked how I'm feeling, she hasn't showed much affection, she hasn't initiated sex (it has been 9 days now), and when I have told her how it makes me feel, she has continued to react with frustration. She *has* been reading "Not Just Friends" the last 3 nights, but what's frustrating to me is when she turns the light out, she has immediately just tried to fall asleep. No conversation with me, no reaching out to me with her hand, nothing unless I force it!

Last night it came to a head when she again tried to fall asleep without even acknowledging my presence. I left the bedroom without saying a word and went downstairs. When I came back up I went to sleep in the guest room. This morning I didn't speak to her and she didn't speak to me as we were getting ready for work.

We just had the following conversation via IM. Some background: tomorrow is my birthday and we had planned to go to dinner tonight as a couple to celebrate. (Her birthday is in another week).

Her: do you want to go out to dinner tonight?

me: Not with a wife who only wants to go out of obligation.

Her: I'm really not sure why you are not speaking to me. (Nor can I really get into a long conversation now). I know we're going through a really rough patch. I am a person and I have feelings/problems/rough days too.

me: I don't even know what to say to you that will change anything. You just don't care enough. If I try to express how I'm feeling, all I get is frustration from you. You have given me short, infrequent glimpses of what it feels like to have a wife that truly loves me, that would do anything to stay with me, that sees me as more than a friend, co-parent and part of a family unit. I need to feel more of that right now, but it just isn't happening. You didn't ask me what was wrong last night or this morning because you really don't want or care to know. Trying to repair the destruction you caused within me is just an inconvenience to you most of the time. That's how I feel.

Her: here's how I feel--we had a great time on our trip. We came back home and pretty quickly you were quiet and in a bad mood again. I just feel so deflated, so hopeless, so helpless. I've been trying to focus on reading the book as you have made it clear you'd like me to do that. I know you want to be held and snuggled with but I find it difficult to do that when you won't even speak with me. It's kind of like the PMS episode on Everybody Loves Raymond--when he says, 'this isn't huggable". I feel like you expect me to be upbeat and lovey nonstop. I have bad days too. I need you to be there for me too. I feel so sad, so deflated, so exhausted.

Her: WOW, that is hurtful.

me: How is that hurtful? All week I've just wanted you to acknowledge how I'm feeling and comfort me. But I don't get anything from you unless I specifically ask for it, and then you react with frustration. How else am I supposed to feel? So your explanation is that you don't want to comfort me because I'm sad and mopey and I'm not comforting you right now?

me: I just don't get it. How you acted on June 21-23, and July 5-6 (post D-days) is completely different than how you act on a daily basis. Except on date nights, I feel ignored by you. It's like you throw me a lifeline and bring me back close to shore, then you take it away and let me float back out to sea. The cycle repeats.

Her: (not sure what specifically you are referring to with those dates) I think my mood is a direct reflection of what I'm getting from you. We had a great time on the trip and then come Monday you were extremely down, quiet, and didn't talk to me. Feels like you're pushing me away. you said some hurtful things above-I can't do this at work.

me: You're basically saying that you're only happy and able to give me the support I need when I'm happy. So in other words, you can't help me when I'm down because that's too hard for you. Thanks, I get it.

Her: you are being hurtful. I'm done with this conversation at work. write down your thoughts and we can discuss them tonight at dinner.

Me: BH - mid-30s
Her: WW - mid-30s (EA & PA w/ coworker, ~5 months)
Married 11 years, together 14
D-days 6/20/2014 & 7/2/2014 (continued EA)

posts: 41   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2014   ·   location: Midwest, USA
id 6892526
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yearsofpain25 ( member #42012) posted at 6:21 PM on Thursday, July 31st, 2014

Wow PBST2. She clearly doesn't get it. Doesn't mean she doesn't want to. She just may be incapable of giving you what you need. She's very selfish to say the least. She doesn't understand that for a while she is going to have to helpl heal you and herself. That she has to carry the burden. In addition to reading NJS and How to help your spouse heal, has your WW read this:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250

She needs to know that this is not going to go away and is going to take years to heal from. There is no going away for a weekend and coming back to everything being ok.

I know you want her to be the one to initiate comforting you. And she should. The burden is hers to carry. At the same time she cannot read your mind all the time. Let her know when you are triggering or what you need. Let her know exactly this....

Going back to work this week has been a struggle. I've been unproductive and overcome with negative thoughts. WW hasn't really done anything to show empathy this week. Her thought process seems to be: "we had a great weekend, we should both be happy now". She hasn't asked how I'm feeling, she hasn't showed much affection, she hasn't initiated sex (it has been 9 days now), and when I have told her how it makes me feel, she has continued to react with frustration. She *has* been reading "Not Just Friends" the last 3 nights, but what's frustrating to me is when she turns the light out, she has immediately just tried to fall asleep. No conversation with me, no reaching out to me with her hand, nothing unless I force it!

...before things come to a head in an IM session and you spend the night in another room.

If I were you, I would ask for a rain check on the birthday dinner tonight. That it's not that you want to call it off altogether but that you are not feeling emotionally well enough and would like to do it another time when you felt up to celebrating. Ask her instead to talk about whatever you want to talk about. Talk about all the above^^^^, maybe what she's learned from NJF, maybe print out the article from the link above and let her read it...whatever floats YOUR boat in an effort to help YOU move forwards.

You may (or may not) want to acknowledge her thoughts and feelings as well in an effort to talk with each other. I know you hear her because you can clearly see what's going on. Let her know that you hear her and hopefully she will hear you.

"I remind myself of this. I am a survivor. I have taken all this world has dished out and am still here. So there is no reason to be afraid. Whatever happens, I will survive. So now onto living. It is time for me to thrive." - DrJekyll

posts: 4519   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2014   ·   location: Northeast US
id 6892632
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Badhurt ( member #41947) posted at 7:52 PM on Thursday, July 31st, 2014

Pbst2

She gives you glimpses of hope when you are away. But when you are home and at work, every day she is with her boyfriend all day and then comes home to boring d complaining you.

There is a reason so many people have told you the dog will go on a lot longer and loses much greater danger if she is spending all day with him. I'm sure when she is at work she fantasizes about the good old days when they could sneak off .the more frustrated you get and the more you ask for the better he looks..

If she was not around him all day she would have more time to think about you.

She is going to be in the fog for a long time at this rate. You think you are managing her still working there.

Does not seem to be workng. Either that or she wants out if she can't rig sweep.

Her life is the same and if you kelp aggrevatong her the A will start up again

posts: 1097   ·   registered: Jan. 6th, 2014   ·   location: Eastern USA
id 6892778
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atsenaotie ( member #27650) posted at 8:25 PM on Thursday, July 31st, 2014

We just had the following conversation via IM.

PBST2,

Text and IM is an excellent tool for reminders to pick up milk, or running late, see you in an hour. It is absolutely horrible for deep or emotional communication. I would not engage your WW through text for anything more than the above mentioned milk reminders or other brief messages. Your discussions of feelings, expectations, the M should be in person face to face where the emotion is communicated along with the verbal content.

I left the bedroom without saying a word and went downstairs. When I came back up I went to sleep in the guest room.

Why? Do not avoid the conflict, tell her why you are getting up and leaving. Don’t let her think, or enable her to pretend, that you left and slept in another room because you had gas or she was snoring. Tell her, “I am leaving and will sleep in the other room because I do not feel loved or wanted when you fall asleep without even acknowledging me or saying good night.”

This morning I didn't speak to her and she didn't speak to me as we were getting ready for work.

Why? Not speaking is not the way to solve problems, it is avoiding conflict. If you were not speaking to her because you are angry with her, tell her so and why.

I really think you have too much focus on your WW and the M right now. To go back to my original post to you, why do you want to be with a WW who you have to force physical contact with, is not interested in sex with you, and who is still in contact with her OM? If you do have sex, are you are you planning on safe sex, or has your WW had STD testing and been cleared? Maybe one of you should move into the spare room until the relationship is on firmer ground.

LTA FBS
dday 10.5.09
Divorced

posts: 4173   ·   registered: Feb. 19th, 2010   ·   location: FL
id 6892820
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 PBST2 (original poster new member #43948) posted at 9:09 PM on Thursday, July 31st, 2014

yearsofpain25, thank you so much for that article. I'm surprised I hadn't come across that one before. I've highlighted bits that really resonate with me, and I plan to give it to my wife. I've also ordered "How to Help your Spouse Heal from Your Affair". Unfortunately I don't think she's going to like the extra reading assignments.

We'll go to dinner tonight and take advantage of the babysitting, because otherwise we won't even have a chance to talk.

badhurt and atsenaotie, you both continue to make good points. I'm going to bring these up tonight. You've got me thinking about whether I'm willing to stay in this M based on the reality of how things are, or am I holding out irrational hope that it can be much better. Unfortunately, I think the HB and incredible closeness we felt when everything was on the table post D-days is giving me false hope about what it's actually going to be like moving forward. I need to figure out what's actually possible, and it needs to be a hell of a lot better than what I'm feeling right now.

Me: BH - mid-30s
Her: WW - mid-30s (EA & PA w/ coworker, ~5 months)
Married 11 years, together 14
D-days 6/20/2014 & 7/2/2014 (continued EA)

posts: 41   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2014   ·   location: Midwest, USA
id 6892893
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Charity411 ( member #41033) posted at 9:53 PM on Thursday, July 31st, 2014

I don't think you are being unreasonable. What you need is what you need. It's specific to you. We all recover in our own way.

I do think however there is something that SeeTheLight also hit on that may be contributing to this miscommunication. You told her you needed her to examine what led up to the affair and why she did what she did. From what you wrote she attempted to explore that with you. She told you you had been distant prior to that. This made you defensive because I'm sure to you it was blameshifting. And it may well be. But I'm sure to her it feels like you asked a question, she gave an honest answer and it created more problems than it solved. And that's why she thinks nothing is good enough.

I don't for a minute think it's your fault that she had an affair. Even if you were distant, it didn't mean she should have an affair. I just think sometimes you have to hear someone out and process it for a bit before giving an immediate response that dismisses what she is saying altogether, which is what using "ridiculous" implies. You stand to shut down the very thing you seek, which is honesty from her.

posts: 1736   ·   registered: Oct. 18th, 2013   ·   location: Illinois
id 6892945
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