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I love my FWH. He loves me. I don't think that something like this betrayal will ever happen again. We are both firmly committed to keeping going forward. To being in touch, to communicating, to being open. We are both doing the “right” things.

And yet, part of me thinks, if I had simply divorced him immediately, I would probably be over him right now and be settled in a life of my own right now. I wouldn’t still be fighting this fight. I would be well on my way to being over it. Rightly or wrongly.

Typing this, I literally feel like shards of glass are piercing me. There is so much pain and sorrow welling up. This was a dealbreaker for me. Always. Yet her I sit. With a FWH that is much more in tune with me. Who shows his love and commitment to me every day now. With whom I have a wonderful time. With whom I am making plans for the rest of my life with. And yet …. I see that road not taken. And I wonder, very deeply inside, if I’ve made a mistake.

These paragraphs are hitting me in a very profound way. Thank you.

see, I really feel that some of the advice on this forum goes in two directions. Do we express the rage or try to deal with it ourselves?

I agree, and not just on SI. Early on after DDAY, when it took a considerable amount of daily effort to not go over to AP's house and bludgeon him to death, I expressed those feelings to both my wife and our MC.

My wife told me "I was scaring her" and the MC just said, "Well, are you actually considering doing this? Causing him physical harm? Do you think that you will?". Thanks a ton for validating my feelings.

Expressing rage is an idea that gets a lot of lip service in my opinion, but no one actually ever really wants to see.

I feel the same way,Skan. If I had left four years ago I might be healed. Heck, I might even be happy with someone else by now.

Today is my 22nd wedding anniversary. Four years ago today we told the kids that Dad was moving out. Destroyed them. I didn't know why he was leaving. Two days later he confessed by telling me he was in love with someone else but wanted to try with me for the kids sake. So here I am. Wondering what could have been.

It's really hard even four years later.

I've been thinking about this all day, Skan, and I still don't have much more to add that we didn't cover in our PM's.

My own rage the other day scared me and woke me up a bit. I think it's so important to constantly dig for our own personal truths so that we can live the most authentic, and therefore peaceful life possible. I'm a poor example of that right now.

I just wanted you to know that I get you. I'm here with you. We need to find a place between beating ourselves up for what is in essence ignoring a clear dealbreaker, and giving ourselves as much space and time as we need to find directions to the path that feels right. That's my biggest challenge right now, I just don't see a damn path.

((((Skan))))

Skan, I'm laying in bed in the dark with my iPad. As I always do every night while I listen to my fWH sleep deeply and nightmare free. (So I'm finger pecking on a tiny screen.) I need SI many times just to get my next healthy breath. Your post filled my entire oxygen tank. You nailed my world. Completely. Two nights ago I went for my daily several mile walk through the Missouri River bluffs. To sort and clear my head. I started out thinking about all that my H did and I started spooling. So I texted him a cathartic thought. He responded. Then it turned into another angrier thought and I texted that. It escalated quickly into a full blown Earth shattering rage and I just let it flow. I texted all of the fury and injustice until H shrank into a debilitated state and stopped responding. I got home to H in bed and eventually I calmed enough to go to bed. I laid in the dark reading SI and felt the residual energy of earlier still festering a bit. So it turned into full blown anxiety. I laid there in anger and disbelief over what my peacefully sleeping H had done to my life. The insane thing is I drifted off to sleep and woke from a nightmare and Immediately woke my H begging him to hold me. He was so confused because his last awake moment I was raging at him.

Wow do I know the rage well, although I'm only 6 months out, so I'm guessing that's quite usual. I have literally been mid painful conversation with WH when it all of a sudden became too much and I started screaming, not scared screaming, but heart wrenching screams of agony. Scared us both, he just held me, let me get it out and then let me cry it out afterwards, pretty sure he joined me in that. Another time early on when we were talking about his involvement with ow3 over Christmas time I was so angry I calmly got up, walked into our spare room, dragged out our Christmas decorations and just started throwing it all to the ground in a manic rage, balling my eyes out, couldn't see a thing, until I was exhausted. Again WH watched in utter shock and fear at what he had helped create. I'm pretty sure he took a photo of the destruction to remind him of what my pain looked like in the real world. (again we were in the early stages). I still get it at times now, it's as you say, the complete injustice of it all. We have to accept that if we choose to stay with our ws's then there will be a debt there that can never be repaid. That is pretty hard to take when that debt has been the crushing of your soul, dignity, self esteem, love and outlook on life and love.

I also find it hard with feeling unworthy at times too. It's very confusing for me because I KNOW I deserve better and I now demand it. Yet the little part of me that is still trying to deal with her own foo issues feels like she doesn't deserve the man WH is trying so very hard to become. That I'm not worthy of that amount of change. Of that amount of hard work!

Rachelc in regards to triggers, my WH knows about every one of them. I find sharing them usually doesn't blow them out to be more then they are. After all they are mostly just echoes of past hurt, not that we are being hurt again. He needs to know how pervading these are, that he is responsible for them. It also gives him an opportunity to address any questions that come with the trigger and also tell me he loves me, he isn't going anywhere, that we will be ok again one day and also an apology for causing the pain. Often times after that I can move on with the day and become calm again. If I said nothing and kept it inside I believe it would fester into further rage, not helpful in any way!

Skan, now that you've expressed it here, and if you tell your husband it's happening too, it may release some of the pressure and start to subside (I hope). Explain to him the injustice you are feeling and how angry you are at yourself for trying to R and that you are going through this now, even if you've said it before.

I remember a shift in my anger that went from my husband and what he had done, to myself for not seeing the signs, for allowing myself to be treated poorly, for feeling like I was betraying myself by trying to reconcile. I think the anger and self loathing (at times) towards myself went a lot deeper.

I know you've had severe PSTD. Have you stopped EMDR? Rage is part of it, just the same as anxiety is. Anxiety is often met with sympathy because it's inward while rage is met with scorn because it's outward and 'bad'. Even though I think the rage you are currently feeling is towards yourself. They are both valid emotions that need to be addressed. All part of that abscessed wound.

Take care.

An update.

So, last night, I resolved to talk it over with FWH, but we had made "intimate" plans for the evening, so I thought to wait until after, when we were both relaxed and feeling close to each other.

People plan, and the Gods laugh.

It was a minor incident as we were going to bed, but I ended up breaking my glasses against the wall (and not, praise God, my computer), in another full-blown outburst of rage downstairs while my FWH was upstairs in the bathroom. I thundered into the bedroom, he asked from behind the door if I was OK, and I choked out no.

And the reasons that I'm still here showed up, one by one.

He flew out of the bathroom while I laid down in bed, jumped in, and held me, asking me softly how I was. I told him about my rage outbreaks, about just having had one, and that they were getting more common in frequency over the last month or so. And burst into tears that ugly, snotty, tears squirting from your eyes, mouth agape crying. Feeling like I was going to throw up with every gasp. He hugged me close, stoked my back, told me how much he loved me, told me how sorry he was that I was hurting, then told me something surprising. He admitted to me that that every now and then he had a selfish thought how many more times was he going to have to watch me come apart, trigger. Hadn’t it been long enough? And then, he said, he just acknowledged the feeling, and told himself that it would take as long as it took, and he was there for the long haul, however long it took, was how long it took for me to be healed from the pain that he brought me. And he reiterated, he wasn’t going anywhere and if I needed to get this pain out, then out it should come.

And eventually, we fell asleep in each other’s arms.

And that’s why I stay.

Wow. I'm sorry that the rage keeps bubbling up, but your H has been so amazing through this. What a gift that he reaches out for you instead of running away from your pain.

(((Skan)))

Very sorry you continue to feel like this Skan. I agree with Jrazz that your H stays present with you and rises to the challenge.

Please take care of yourself. I hope it starts to change and calm down for you soon. Stay strong Skan.

I agree, it's been amazing. And, had he not been hiding shit from me during all of his being present time, over the last two years, I truly and honestly think that I would be Far, Far, better right now.

But the fact is, that while he was being present with me, was dealing with my fears, sleeping outside of my room in case the night terrors got to me, doing IC, and all of that, he lied to my face about having purged all of the porn out of our house. After me leaving him for 4 days to get away and our MC firing him and me confronting his IC and all of the getting back on track from all of this, I trusted in him going out with his buddy alone because he would text me through the night and be back early, and then he blew all of this off, tried to drive drunk, and got picked up with a DWI. While I drove around the area that his tracker said he was, trying to find him at 2am. All the day before my mother showed up for a 1-week visit which I had to pass off the stress of being ONLY his DWI. And the resultant money that this wasted. Then,I found him on a Private Browser seeking porn. And, when I found him, him justifying it as forgetting that he would be totally trackable in what he did on the internet. As if PORN wasn't yet another dealbreaker.

I really feel like I'm losing my freaking mind at times. He is on his last chance. He seems to be doing so well, and to be supporting me to the max. And yet. And yet. And yet. Is he rising to the challenge, or is he going to cut my soul out with a dull knife and serve it up to the F-You gods. I don't know. I make the choice to believe that he means it. I pray for the best. Underneath, I prepare for the worse.

The duality. What path are we really on. Where is it going. Is it a true path, or am I headed to hell.

This, any of you WSs that are reading, is what you consign your faithful spouses to, when you decide to unzip your pants. Choose wisely.

You're not headed to hell, love. There are some crappy detours, but we're going to be ok. I just know we are. (((Skan)))

Skan, thanks for posting this topic. I'm dealing with this too and feel squarely in a very bumpy portion of the roller coaster. Glad your H is there for you. It really does make it much easier to see why we stick around when that happens.

But what happens when the response is silence or just an "I'm sorry"? I get that rage is scary for WS's to face, but it just enrages me more when my H just sits there saying nothing or very little, shrinking into himself. Ugh. I don't know the proper response either but I suspect it's something more than that...

Skan, i too feel the rage, thank goodness for SI, knowing i'm not crazy or alone is a huge comfort. I know my rage is at myself, for still being here, for still loving him, for giving him the second chance, when deep down i feel it should be a deal breaker but i don't have the strength to walk away and break up my family when he's trying so hard. As time passes the reality of living with it starts to sink in.

But what happens when the response is silence or just an "I'm sorry"? I get that rage is scary for WS's to face, but it just enrages me more when my H just sits there saying nothing or very little, shrinking into himself. Ugh. I don't know the proper response either but I suspect it's something more than that...

There is an abyss. An abyss that's huge between the WS trying to comfort the raging BS and the place where the BS feels peace. I don't know how to get there myself, but I know it lies squarely in myself.

Here's an example: saw OW1's husband on Saturday at the bike shop when I took hubby's bike in for repair, as a favor for him. So I see her husband - the one who called ME crazy for telling her employer and family. I dont know if he saw or recognized me or even care if he did. What was slated to be a nice day still was, because I didn't want it to slide the other direction. I told hubby about it and he said he was sorry that I was put in that position to see these people that remind me of what he did. So that space between him saying he was sorry and me dealing with the hurt is huge. And that's where our rage comes in. Because we don't know what to do with that space. He can attempt to comfort me and apologize but that doens't come near to giving me peace I so desperately want. In fact, it almost makes it worse because it points out that there is nothing he can do.

People say turn towards your WS. Ok, they apologize. So what. They can't take it away or make it to not have happened, which is really what we want. So it lies with us. I'm convinced. But it's an awfully big space to fill up.

The trigger didn't last long because time has gone by and I wanted to have a nice day for MYSELF. I think Dixie is on to something in that part of the rage we feel is directed towards ourselves because we want to desperately to have the pain subside and we wonder if we left would it? Or we wonder if we are making the right decision by staying. Or, we wonder if settling for less than we deserve is abandoning ourselves?

Some difficult things to face: I'm here because I choose to be. I know I will have to see these people and I am choosing to be occasionally traumatized by staying. He cannot comfort me enough to make those triggers go away. He can't. So that leaves only me and my choices... it's hard shit.

Hugs to everyone....

This was a dealbreaker for me. Always. Yet her I sit. With a FWH that is much more in tune with me. Who shows his love and commitment to me every day now. With whom I have a wonderful time. With whom I am making plans for the rest of my life with. And yet ….

Skan:

Regarding the above words. IMO, because of the trickle truth and the continued porn viewing you mentioned, it becomes more and more difficult for us to believe our wayward spouses actually mean what they say.

IMO, the trickle truth was worse than the discovery of the affair.

I think had there been no trickle truth or additional porn viewing I would have healed.

Here on SI they always say actions speak louder than words.

So, when we catch them viewing porn again, when we think things are going so well it feels like another betrayal.....heck, no. It IS another betrayal. Maybe it's a betrayal that's even worse than the original dday, because now they know how much pain they caused us, but they seemingly do not care.

And, to my mind, having gone through the same thing thinking reconciliation with my wayward was going well only to catch him viewing porn again, something we agreed he would not do because I found it insulting an degrading, makes it seem as if they are purposefully be cruel.

Or, perhaps their words of comfort are just another lie or form of manipulation or gaslighting.

I know about the power of porn addictions and such. But the thing is I sometimes have to ask myself, do I want to be married to an addict. Any type of addict.

....a drug addict, a gambling addict, a porn addict.....an affair addict?

As others have mentioned, I, too, dumped nice boyfriends over far more minor infractions.

I chose to marry my husband because I thought he was a safer, better choice than those boyfriends, than I found out that maybe he is not who I thought he was.

I, too, think daily that I would probably be happier and healed if I had just filed for divorce immediately on dday.

Other days, I when I think things are going well, I am happier, but still, even then, there is always the fear that my wayward will backslide again, and I will once again discover that he is viewing porn.

I truly believe it was his porn habit that led him to seek out the affair and to allow himself to cross that boundary.

His OW also was a porn addict, and actually sent porn videos of herself to him, each time he tried to back away from her, and finally he took the bait.

Porn is so easy to access and so prevalent, now, and it seems their are so many porn addicts out there.....men and women, and those porn addicts seem to be addicted to having affairs.

That's what scares me, maybe that is what is in the back of your mind to and what is stimulating the rage.

You just DON'T feel safe with your spouse anymore and the trickle truth about the porn is what caused the inability to heal from the affair.

Skan,

This resonates so much for me. These nagging feelings of what if? Have been creeping back into my thoughts more and more. Adultery truly was a deal breaker for me. I initially stayed for my children, then got pregnant during a freak HB incident. I don't regret staying for a second because FWH and I have worked our collective asses off to become far healthier than either of us ever would have under other circumstances. So now I stay because of that; but it feels temporary some how.

Like you, my FWH has been far from perfect. For every amazing thing he has done and continues to do, there has been a messed up and painful incident; and this lack of consistency is where I struggle the most. I question his limitations, and question, now that I am healthy enough to do so, whether a man with these limitations is really someone I want to be with. My IC's have all said to give him time, he is coming from a major emotional deficit. Sometimes that is not a problem, and other days that trigger finger gets twitchy.

I guess I don't have much to offer other than, I'm here too. In this painful twilight place. Some light, some dark, at times hard to see.

I am relating to your post and here is why.

My WH's affair partner called me to tell me of the affair. It was long distance and she flew in from out of state to meet with him on 2 occasions within a year and a halfs time. She said that her reason for calling me was that he won't leave me and the she wants him hurt. The only way she can hurt him now is to get to me. There were several things she said that made me think she was a bit nuts and so I consciously decided to not contact her husband.

On the 2 year antiversary date I struggled...and I mean struggled to not pick up the phone and call her husband. I wanted to blindside her like she blindsided me. Derail her life, make her life hell... you get the point. My rage at her getting away with it is fueled by the fact that I was beaten and chose to protect myself and my kids at the time. There has been no contact and my H begged me to let it remain that way.

I brought this up in therapy because it was unnerving to me that I could have this much rage this far out in our recovery.Why can't I let it go? But I answered my own question. For me, it would be closure. She attacked me, I attacked back. Even score? Not by a longshot... but it would have felt good. I am not calling her H at this point... but the rage is there.

Don't be hard on yourself for having those feelings. Act reasonably but dont' beat yourself up for feeling them.

So many people here say time is the ultimate healer. I don't agree totally but can tell you that in my case the rage has simmered to not boil over. I hope sharing some of this helps you in some way.

Thank you all again. It's really funny, in a totally un-funny way, how we all relate to each other, despite our differences. How we can all almost talk in a code, and have multiple someone's out there get it.

For my part, I keep soldering on. Because I want to. Because that closed door in my head, that switch between my ears, hasn't gone SNAP yet, to say I'm done. In in truth, if, IF, the reality that I am living now is real, I do want to go on. I love him. He loves me. But love is not enough. And that is his huge blind spot. He thinks that love can conquer all. I know that it cannot. But we choose to try to walk down this path together, two imperfect people trying to reach out and connect and stay connected.

I was arrogant in my first year. Everything went so very well. We were the poster children for R. Yeah, it was a horror show, but MY FWH got it! He was going to be one of the few, the very few, who never put a foot wrong in R. And I fully admit it. I got smug. I got too comfortable. I was wrong.

So we keep on keeping on. Trying to re-build our lives every day. Trying to connect and stay connected. Having our bad days and our good days. Two nights ago, we danced in the kitchen while preparing a meal. Last night he was getting sick so I cut short my plans and came home to be with him. We snuggled together in bed and this morning, when we came together to pray, I held a bottle of hand sanitizer because I knew it would make him laugh. Tonight, I feel a bit rotten and am probably getting his cold. Both of us are beseeching the heavens that we NOT give his SIL and family this damned cold over the weekend as they stop overnight on their way to fly to Hawaii for a family vacation.

Life goes on. Time passes. And we all do the very best that we can, each and every day. We stumble and we fall. We pick each other up, we cheer each other on, and we say things that are hard to hear to each other. We are a community that never wanted to be a community together, but we all have each other's backs. That's who we are. That's how we roll. (((hugs))) to you all.

So weird. I posted these same feelings last week regarding what feels like a psychosis. I'm so glad to know that I am in good company. Not in a misery loves company kind of way but, it feels a little better to know I'm not alone.

BTW, does anyone else have memory issues? It seems like I've lost chunks of time and feel a but like rumpelstiltskin.