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Dude she is going to have to earn your heart back. She is the one that broke her vows to you. I'm not saying you haven't contributed to the break of your marriage but the cheating is all on her. That's the biggest mistake people make, they think they are at fault for the affair.

I know I'm not directly at fault for the affair. I realize she made that choice on her own and that it was a conscious decision. I also know by ignoring her and not meeting her emotional needs that she felt the need to have them fulfilled elsewhere and that part of it I am partly responsible for. I have put my foot down and made it clear that her continuing communication with the OM must stop if she has any inclination at all to try and fix our marriage. I don't know how confused she is, all I can do is be firm in my actions and my tone and if she doesn't want to work things out then I will be absolutely devastated but at least I can say I tried my best to fix myself if even if she's not willing to fix herself.

I know I'm not directly at fault for the affair.

Be very careful with this. There is no doubt that many of us were responsible for part (or, in my case perhaps, even a majority) of the problems in the marriage. Perhaps she even tried multiple times to tell you that you weren't the partner she wanted you to be.

This does not make you in any way at fault for the selfish and destructive way that she chose to deal with whatever she perceived her issues were. Consider this: lots and lots of women struggle with marital issues, and with the husbands, and the issues they struggle with may be very real. However, many of them don't choose to have sex with other men as a solution to that issue. Why did your wife?

Ultimately, it wasn't even indirectly your fault. She needs to determine what that issue was, but not now. Before anything else, she needs to be "all in" on the marriage, meaning "all out" on the A. As long as you allow the blame-shifting and re-writing of the marital history, she isn't there yet. That doesn't mean you can't get there, just that you aren't there yet.

Good luck.

gfunk... please listen to others... every cheater re-writes their marital history.... more than not, nothing was laking... you were simply the old shoe and new one look to good to pass up.

a quote i like to use.

you wife and this "emotional loss" is not about "wanting to tell you about it and not knowing how" it is entirely: "she is going for this (an affair), because it feels great."

I read that you want to prove yourself as a better man to her.... oh please go the opposite direction here. you will lose everything with this. You need to be the "man" now and set the rules and boundaries and enforce it like no tomorrow. She has no credibility or foot to stand on but try to win you back.

I cannot tell how many times a wayward spouse talks about lack of emotion.. but when the fog clears and they are finally over the chemicals, they see the light and admit to how much cake-eating they did. Every marriage has problems, every... the excuses waywards give is never enough to leave the mariage is it... never. they just want to have something on the side...because it is a rush. They then cover up that guilt with deflection.

Remember... infidelity has nothing... nothing... nothing to do with marital problems... it is its own island that is is part of the group of islands of addictions.

[This message edited by atreides at 5:59 PM, August 11th (Monday)]

You have told her you will not accept the current situation, but guess what she told you. That she is going to let you take her on date night and them go home and send him some more sexting photos. Because she has not agreed to anything and you have given her no consequences at all . You are rewarding her and accepting her behavior.

Her boyfriend has basically ignored you because you have given him no consequences either. Until you tell his wife you have absolutely no chance of stopping this.

I hope you soon realize that everyone posting to you is not crazy and that you are enabling her to not make a decision.

Right now you are plan B.

As long as you tremble at the thought of pissing her off you are accomplishing nothing. It appears you are going to find that out the hard way because after reading what everyone has TD you it appears you are determined to let her cake eat at your expense.

I want to tell the OM spouse but I'm afraid since my wife still currently wants her space and keeps talking to him that will just push her to him more when he gets kicked out of his house. Help me understand the possible consequences if I inform the OM spouse that he is cheating on her. Thanks for all your help and advice, I read the 180 article and am.going to do my best on all of it starting tomorrow.

First of all the best reason to tell the OBS (other betrayed spouse) is that it's common decency. Your wife is conspiring with another man to ruin a (probably) innocent woman's marriage. She has a right to know who she's married to.

That said, what's likely to happen is that the air is going to come out of the A pretty quickly. Your WW and the OM might turn on each other, the A is unlikely to continue. It's unlikely for the light of day to push the AP's together. If it does, that speaks volumes for their character -- and you won't have lost much.

Finally: this isn't a game for the faint of heart. You can't worry about being nice. You should stand up and do the right thing. Meekly worrying about giving her "space" will just make things worse.

gfunk at this point the only chance you have is to at least attempt to blow this up.

Respect yourself and she may follow you.

You can hold off on telling the other man's wife for the time being. This is assuming that your wife agrees to the "no contact" that you need to continue in the marriage, and that she re-commits to the marriage and keeps up her end of the bargain. Other man's wife eventually should be told, but you can wait a few weeks if your wife is willing to re-commit to you and work on the marriage and end contact. In most cases I've seen, the cheating wife in a situation like this is addicted to the other man and can't give him up without some type of outside influence - whether that be the prospect of divorce, or other man throwing her under the bus, at least temporarily.

If you out him to his wife, your wife will go ballistic on you. That is almost a certainty. She will leave you to go stay with him, stay in a hotel, stay with parents, and if he throws her under the bus to work on his own marriage, which also is very likely, she likely will come back to you to try to work on your marriage. If she was going to leave you anyway, OM or no, then her chance of coming back after this will be much lower.

What was your wife's response to your "no contact" request? Did she agree? If she did, I would suggest holding off on contacting other man's wife until she breaks that agreement. It probably will take her only a few days to break the agreement. As a matter of fact, I would be surprised if she lasted more than a couple of hours. Then, when you contact other man's wife, you can tell your wife that she didn't live up to her end of your agreement, and you saw no reason to continue protecting other man. Also you can tell her that you are fighting for her and fighting for your marriage. A voice-activated recorder in her car likely would provide you with good feedback as to where you stand, whether you expose to other man's wife or not.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 11:03 PM, August 11th (Monday)]

I have told her two times now, firmly but caring, that I am not ok with her talking to the OM and she needs to stop immediately if she wants at all to work out our marriage. Her response is that she still needs time and space to make a decision and that she can not/will not commit to not communicating with him for the time being. I just want her to make a decision but I don't want to push her away because I truly do want to try and work things out, but I completely understand that will only work if that's what she wants as well. How long should I wait before I draw a line in the sand and force her to make her decision? I don't want to wait too long and have her think it's fine to have her cake and eat it too but I don't want to force her hastily either. This whole ordeal just really, really sucks. :(

Chances are, the other man doesn't really want to be with your wife. He wants what he has at home, and he wants a side piece. Nine times out of ten, the OM who is married throws the affair partner under the bus. If he doesn't, you've lost a cheater. I know it doesn't seem like it will ever feel that way but at some point, that won't seem like much of a loss.

You're still in the bargaining phase of grief and you're doing what the vast majority of us tried to do when we first find out: You're trying to nice her back into the marriage. You're trying to make it a safe place for it to be. Unfortunately, that doesn't work. You need to find your inner asshole, go hellfire and brimstone. She needs to understand that it's either you, the good, faithful dude with integrity, or him, the scumbag who would sleep with a married woman while being married himself. That doesn't mean you get to make her choice for her. She could choose him. It does accelerate your own healing, and that's a long road whether you reconcile or divorce.

When I just found out, I reacted exactly the same way you did. I thought that nobody here knew how great my wife was, and they certainly didn't know how inadequate I was. I've come to learn over the years that while we're all different and we all have different relationships, affairs, more often than not, follow a predictable path. Trying to nice a cheater back into the relationship almost never works. The people who are reconciling almost to a person found that inner asshole quickly and delivered a campaign of shock and awe.

Good luck to you. I'm really sorry to meet you under these circumstances.

How long should I wait before I draw a line in the sand and force her to make her decision?

You can't force her to make a decision. You state what you want and need from her and what your decision will be in response to that. You can only control your own actions.

I found out this past Wed night, I could tell something was out and found an email address she had setup to communicate with other man, who is also married with 4 children. They have only sent dirty pictures to each other (many more from my wife than him, I saw in the emails) and they have made out at least a couple of times. ... I am very discouraged that she continues to talk to the OM even after I sent him an email asking him to stop and telling her how it made me feel.

She was happy with the status quo before you found out. Having you at home for security, and having him for her emotional and physical needs. You found out, she did not tell you. Why would you think she will ever want this situation to end? My opinion is that she will go on telling you, day after day, week after week, that she needs more time and space to make up her mind. These things usually only end when someone gets caught cheating and is forced to make a choice. You caught her cheating, but you are not forcing her to make a choice. So in my opinion it will not end anytime soon.

It has been going on a while now, I don't think there is much harm in letting it continue a little while, except that she may become even more emotionally attached to him than she is now. I'm assuming that you think that when she says she needs more space and time to figure things out, that means some day soon, like by this coming Sunday or at least within two weeks. But I think you will see in cases like yours, if you look around on this forum, that the cheaters who say they need more time and space never come to a decision.

What time frame were you thinking of that would be acceptable to you to give her time to figure this out? How long can you put up with it? However long that is, she still will be telling you that she needs more time when that date comes.

I suggest either telling her she needs to make a decision within one day, or at least giving her a deadline of how long you will wait before you file for divorce. I am starting to chuckle to myself as I type this because I can think of a few other people I know who gave deadlines, like for example "by August 15," and their cheaters avoided them all of that day, and then they had to call their cheaters up at about 11 pm, only to be told the cheater still needed more time to decide. So even deadlines do not really get you an answer. If that happens, you have to let her know that a lack of making a decision will have the same result as deciding not to reconcile.

I'm sorry you're in this situation, but this probably is the roughest part. It will get better once you set a path to either reconcile or divorce.

My suggestion is to tell her she has had plenty of time already, and give her one more day to decide. Tell her tomorrow morning that you need an answer before 8 am the following day so you can make an appointment with a lawyer if you have to.

Her response is that she still needs time and space to make a decision and that she can not/will not commit to not communicating with him for the time being.

She just gave you the finger and said your feelings don't matter right now. Her friend is to important to her for her to care about you.

mhca was right when he said you cannot be meek. Caring words don't get through the fog. Reality does.

History here on SI has shown that those who take the initiative and and start driving the bus have the best chance of preventing the relationship from driving off a cliff. Your WW is heading straight for it and your asking her nicely to turn away. But she can't see the cliff. All she sees is the fantasy of OM on the other side in the mists.

I know it seems counter intuitive, but telling the OMs wife rarely drives them together. We've seen it time and time again. OM throws the WW under the bus because he had no intentions of leaving is safe, warm home. Once the lies come crashing down, cheaters run like hell cuz they never expected to loose what they had at home.

I just want her to make a decision

Didn't she already make that decision when you and her were married.

I would guess the OM wife would make the decision for your wife very quickly.

All of this just means she is not ready to stop having the affair. Now that you know, she is actually having an affair with some guy right in front of you, as if you don't matter at all or even exist.

The longer this goes on, the harder it is going to be to stop it.

This "trying to decide" crap could easily go on for years. Sooner or later you will have to draw that line in the sand and stick to it.

But right now, she is treating you like you are not even important in her life and this attitude is going to make R hard to impossible the longer it continues.

Doing nothing is making a decision.

Is your immediate goal ending this A? If so, experience has taught many here that exposure is the quickest way to end an A. That means telling OBS and providing what proof you have to her such as print outs of emails, sexting, etc.

Several things can happen. First, OM dumps your WW. Because he won't leave his marriage.

Second, you have a second set of eyes and ears opened to watch for suspicious behavior. That would be OBS.

Third, your WW goes ballistic as Fantasyland has just been closed to her before she was thinking of leaving. But she has nowhere to go except home or relatives and explaining why is too embarrassing if she goes anywhere but home or flat out lies.

Fourth, and rarely disclosed here she leaves and sets up a playhouse with OM. Hardly ever seen it though.

Finally, if the roles were reversed and OBS knew, wouldn't you want her to tel you?

As long as you leet WW dictate what you do, she will have zero respect for you and the A will continue with this OM or another. Do you want to live like that?

If she leaves, you just accelerated the process and minimized the total amount of hurt you feel. What if she takes 2 more months to decide and votes for OM? All. You accomplished by accommodating her wishes was 2 extra months of agony. Not a good choice for yo.

Hi, Gfunk,

I'm so sorry you found yourself here.

This is very important to keep in mind:

You are surrounded by many, many people who were exactly where you were. They were you, myself included. Every line from you, every line from your wife, is unoriginal. (I say this gently.)

Her response is that she still needs time and space to make a decision and that she can not/will not commit to not communicating with him for the time being. I just want her to make a decision but I don't want to push her away

All I can do is repeat what is being said here--and what was said to me when I was "you." In fact, if you have some time I recommend you track down my oldest threads. You will see yourself.

Everything she says can be translated precisely: she is telling you she has no intention of ending her affair. And yes, your wife is having an affair--in your face. The disrespect! The cruelty! The selfishness! None of us here can claim to have been the perfect partner. But Gfunk, this is all on her. To quote others who implored me at the time to stop being a doormat: You are not going to push her away because she is gone. Read that again. She is GONE. She has detached from you and attached to another.

It is very counterintuitive, nearly impossibly so, to internalize that. But do it, for it will save you immeasurable grief.

To reiterate: I am so sorry, but you are doing everything wrong. You are enabling her affair by doing the "pick me dance." This will destroy your soul as she sees it as validating her decisions. My advice is a hardline approach: file for divorce. This will either wake her up or it will not. If it does not then you will have saved yourself weeks, months or years of incredible pain. Again: it will NOT push her farther away.

An affair--especially one flaunted in your face--is emotional abuse. Pure and simple. She sees your pain, she has the power to stop your pain, and she is actively choosing not to. Thus your pain does. Not. Matter to her. Is this whom you deserve?

You will ultimately choose your own path, but again, please listen to the collective wisdom of the people here. Your situation is far from original, and your situation is not complicated, even though you feel it is. (And I'm sure at some point your wife will hand you that line as well: "It's complicated.")

Strength, Gfunk. This is hell.

She says she needs time and space to figure out what she wants

She can't have it. Tell her to choose now or you walk.

Also I agree with what others have said: tell the other man's wife. This will help put a stop to this affair.

I want to tell the OM spouse but I'm afraid since my wife still currently wants her space and keeps talking to him that will just push her to him more when he gets kicked out of his house.

Can I swear on these forums? I'm going to anyway.

So. Fucking. What.

Let her be pushed out. In fact, I encourage you to push her out. Tell her to pack her bags and enjoy her new life with the other man. Stop being a doormat. It might cause her to finally respect you. It will definitely cause you to finally respect yourself.

Hi gfunk, if the shoe was on the other foot, and you were doing this to her, would she be so patient? YOU need to tell her NC with the OM. I think that you have been more than patient. She expects you to be sitting there waiting till she makes up her mind???? Is she kidding, are you kidding for accepting this. Have some self worth!! Expose her, she is clearly not doing the right thing you need to air the dirty laundry and tell the OBS what is happening.