SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I got that it was me seeing things.

But it wasn't just "you seeing things".

Maybe I've misunderstood, but the way that you phrased that makes it seem as if your perception is being discounted/dismissed/minimized. And considering this recent turn of events, do you still believe that you were just *seeing things*?

I have had some real serious health issues. It became a thing of me not taking care of his side of the fence anymore.

Theoretically, marriage is a 50/50 deal. But that is not really the case in the real world. In the real world (or maybe it's just in *my* world), marriage is a give and take with the understanding that it all should balance out in the end. Maybe today you had to *give* more for his career, and maybe next week he'll have to be the one *giving* so that you can do something dog-related.

But if you are experiencing serious health issues, then it is going to be your turn to be on the *taking* side for a while and your husband needs to shoulder the *giving* burden. It's really unfair that you have to be worried about *taking care of him* while you are undergoing your own crisis.

But *this chick* is not the problem. HL apparently has validation issues that he hasn't conquered yet and so there will always be a *this chick*. It kinda sounds as if all the girls in his department *have his number*. They see it and you need to see it too.

Which leads into his transfer request. TiGi, I hate to say it, but I'm smelling a big, fat, noxious rat. HL doesn't work for a *small* company. The *odds* of the 2 of them getting transferred into the same dept, at (basically) the same time are kinda slim, aren't they?

Well, I feel as if I'm doing nothing but instigating doubt and negativity....so I'm going to just let you be for now. You are a smart lady and I know that you see the *flaws* in this scenario without anyone whiteboarding it for you.

Take your time to process this and what it means for you. I cannot even find the words to tell you how awful I feel that this is happening to you guys.

(((tired girl)))

I hate to say this, because I'm not in your shoes and I believe that you know your situation best… From an outsider's perspective, it does not sound like he made a mistake. It sounds like he made choices. You noticed his behavior, felt uncomfortable (your gut talking), and asked him to stop more than once. He didn't. He chose not to. And then you had to be subject to that night, where the other women at work were acting like there was a "him and her", at least in a flirtatious "him giving her a hard time" sense. And him telling her personal details of your lives.

There was nothing accidental about his choices. What I'm wondering is, what work didn't he do the first time that led to him choosing this again? Is he still going to apply for this transfer to the same department she works at? Did he ever talk to her about him making the transfer? And how is he going to prove that the meeting really ran late the other night and that he didn't talk to her?

But most importantly, what do you need right now? You've just been through something terrible. What support do you need that might ease some of the burden? You're not alone. We're here for you.

(((more hugs)))

Yesterday, I told him he had a choice, go (to IC) or I leave.

I think this is a very healthy approach.

So many times we hear that we must be willing to walk away from our marriage in order to save it. I believe this is an example. A WS needs trauma in order to change.

He needs the shock and awe (trauma) and the realization you will leave him because of HIS actions in order for him to face and accept he is broken, and to stop blaming you. You need the strength and courage to hold him to it. I believe you are very wise now and have the strength to do this.

(((tired girl)))

(((TG))) How are you today?

TG,

IMO, you've come too close to taking some responsibility for this. Remember, there's nothing you did or didn't do that caused HL to cross boundaries.

I can see HL initially not knowing how he got here. By now, however, he should have some inkling.

Working in IC to change and build real boundaries is what will really make a difference for the long term, but if HL asked me, I'd say it would probably be good for him to post in WS at least to own what he did.

Also, if he asked, I'd counsel not interviewing for the new job. I'd say his focus now should be on building boundaries. To go in now risks both his M and his job. He needs to protect himself and others from his harassment.

I think you both honestly thought his boundaries were good when he started this job. You were probably right, in the sense that his boundaries had improved - just not enough. He needs more work. If he does it, your future together improves.

Again, I'm sorry you have to deal with this. You didn't cause this - it wasn't your job to keep HL on the path he said he had chosen.

Gonna,

When I said " I got that I was seeing things" I meant that he was saying that. I knew I wasn't but he was trying to say that I was. HL has had to focus a lot of time on me in the past year with my health issues and he has. It hasn't been easy for either one of us and he has really been there for me. I don't know, maybe that played a part in him slipping on his boundaries. I am not in any way taking responsibility here, I am saying that he wasn't taking care of himself enough due to what was happening with me. I know I kept trying to tell him to go do stuff for himself and he wouldn't.

As far as the job goes, he has already interviewed twice for it. It would be a step up for him from where he is now. They would technically be in the same dept. but he would be a few levels above her. So he would likely not be in the same area. He is going to try to find out today where she sits and where he would sit. He knows how this looks to me, I asked him what he would do if it was me in this situation instead of him and he said he would probably ask me to quit my job and stay home. So he is getting how this looks. I asked him to find a solution that I can live with in order for him to take the job if they offer it to him. They haven't offered it to him yet, but he is expecting them to.

Sisoon,

I felt like your post resonated with me the most as far as what has happened. I would like him to post, but right now he is saying no. There are reasons for that that have nothing to do with this situation. He has left the door open for maybe sometime in the future. When I first confronted him on this he wanted to keep saying that he had done nothing wrong and nothing was going on. It was when he looked at how he was when he started this job a year ago, and how he was being now that it really struck him how far his boundaries had slipped. He had done some work, but yes he didn't continue and go far enough. I believe he sees that now. I am not trying to take any responsibility for it, I am just frustrated that he didn't listen when I was trying to urge him back to IC, or telling him to knock it off with her.

DS,

Thank you for checking in with me. I am sad, angry, disapointed, and tired. I am hanging in there, and so glad I have this place to come to. Thank you.

TG,

I wish I had something smart and helpful to say. I don't. I just hate this for you and wanted you to know I'm thinking about you.

Just curious - does HL have any male friends that he spends time with?

Just curious - does HL have any male friends that he spends time with?

No, especially since we moved down here. However, he has started getting into doing a new sport that he seems to be really enjoying. At least he seems to be. He always needs some type of physical outlet and this gives him that. I have been glad to see him doing something again.

I hate that you're dealing with this! I was so shocked to read it, had to check that it was really you. I can't imagine how you're feeling. (hugs)

What a blow.

Wish I had something helpful to say, other than be good to yourself...

((Tired Girl))

Hey juki!!!!

Ya, it is a blow. Feeling anxious today, really hate that feeling.

Trying to just keep him in the loop of where I am, and that feels like I am just constantly bombarding him with this. I know he needs time to process his own crap. This just sucks. It felt like we were doing so well. But honestly, I knew in my gut he still had work to do. So it really doesn't shock me, it just saddens me that it came out this way yet again. I guess I wish he had chosen a different route to display his brokeness. I should know better than anyone that it doesn't work that way.

TG I am so sorry that you are going through this again.

HL has had to focus a lot of time on me in the past year with my health issues and he has. It hasn't been easy for either one of us and he has really been there for me. I don't know, maybe that played a part in him slipping on his boundaries.

I guess this means you can never get sick in the future.

I know I kept trying to tell him to go do stuff for himself and he wouldn't.

Sure he was, at work with OW

He is going to try to find out today where she sits and where he would sit. He knows how this looks to me

Of course he does, he knows his intentions.

it really struck him how far his boundaries had slipped.

That is how boundary moving works. slide the boundary an inch at a time. And then you look back and see how far it has actually moved.

From my perspective on this. HL has disregarded your feelings, discarded your partnership, gone back to his old ways, and it would have only been a matter of time until those boundaries were back to an A. You keep stating HL did not have an A with this woman. But he obviously had a huge crush and is following her around the company. HL is creating opportunity for future A.

You have been so thoughtful in helping others here on SI. But if you can take a step back from your situation for a moment, what advice would you be giving somebody else here? Would you be telling them "He showed you who he is, believe him" would you be saying "At some point you have to love you enough to leave" I know it is so much harder when it is your life, emotions, relationship on the line. But what advice would you give you.

Sending strength.

From my perspective on this. HL has disregarded your feelings, discarded your partnership, gone back to his old ways, and it would have only been a matter of time until those boundaries were back to an A. You keep stating HL did not have an A with this woman. But he obviously had a huge crush and is following her around the company. HL is creating opportunity for future A.

I pointed all of this out this morning. The fact that he is having a hard time seeing it, bothers me. I am on the fence as to whether he is following her around. He has put in for a few different jobs in the company and this was the one he was most qualified to interview for. He is trying to move up. I believe he has put in for three total and the other two were in completely different depts than her. What I do believe is what gonna stated and that is that any chick with bad boundaries is a potential problem for my husband. He has already shown that to me. At his old job, it didn't matter who it was, anyone that fed into the validation was good. That is why I have never gotten hung up on any of the OW, I realize they don't matter. They are just a tool for him. They really can be anyone. He has to fix what is wrong in him. Until then, our marriage and I are not safe. It doesn't matter where he is in the company.

To me, what he did was more than a boundary violation but less than an affair. It's more like he was grooming her for an affair.

I say this because, to me, a boundary violation might happen once but not go on for months. Repeated boundary violations is more than a boundary violation, KWIM?

As I think you said earlier, he was pretty far down that slippery slope.

If he won't post here, I would be very concerned.

So sorry you are dealing with this.

What I do believe is what gonna stated and that is that any chick with bad boundaries is a potential problem for my husband.

Until then, our marriage and I are not safe. It doesn't matter where he is in the company.

Why are you limiting this to his work? Would that extend to wherever. If he happens to be at the grocery store and comes in contact with a poor boundary woman. Wouldn't that be a potential problem also?

You keep saying HL will not come back to the wayward forum. and whatever the reason you understand it. what could possibly keep him from posting on an anonymous forum? Shame. Shame is the only thing I can see. I get doesn't want web activity tracked at work. Does he have a smartphone?

there are millions of people with poor boundaries. what has HL done to setup firm boundaries? From the sound of it. He has done nothing. What he stopped making sexual innuendos? But they were coming, you know that. What has he actually changed? Besides jobs

Obviously, I never could figure out how to say what I was trying to figure out how to say last night. Thankfully, others have covered it and more eloquently than I could have.

I hope today is a better day for you, ((tg)).

[This message edited by ThoughtIKnewYa at 9:56 AM, August 19th (Tuesday)]

there are millions of people with poor boundaries. what has HL done to setup firm boundaries? From the sound of it. He has done nothing. What he stopped making sexual innuendos? But they were coming, you know that. What has he actually changed? Besides jobs

This will be the thing worked on in IC. He obviously can't fix it overnight, but he is going to start IC. He started the process and dropped the ball. He is picking it back up. I will see what he does with it. I am strong enough to know that if he doesn't fix this I will leave. This is his to fix, not mine.

I know how it looks to everyone concerning coming back here. On that subject I am not going to keep defending him not coming on right now. Coming on here is not a magic fix for everyone. He needs to find the way that is right for him, and that is his right. I firmly believe that. I made it a requirement the first time around and it really helped him. This time around, he knows the ropes. And he is going back to IC to work on fixing what is wrong. He doesn't have to be on here in order to fix that.

 It's more like he was grooming her for an affair.

This. All the other staff knows HL and Chick had "a thing". These things are progressive. Always are. That's the nature of the beast. May take weeks, months, or longer. But it's a progression. It took him less than a year to be all Mr. Rock Solid Boundaries, to having a thing with a girl. You know where this leads next.

TG, you've always been such a rock. You've given me so much excellent spot on advice. In the midst of your own hurts and struggles, you reached out to shine a light. The non-hugger in me is aching to reach out and hug you for real. Because I know how much you need one. I wish there was more we could do for you.

It's hard. We *know* the steps. What to do. It's so clear when it's someone else. But when it comes to our own situations, we search for every loophool. Every explanation. Every out. We bargain.

You are precious TG. Know that. Believe that. Don't settle. Don't bargain. You is kind, smart, and important.

Hi TG,

I'm trying to wrap my head around where he is right now.

Do you get the feeling now, that he is trying to protect your marriage, or himself?

Is he remorseful? Does he understand why you are so saddened and upset?

Is he owning his actions and what they caused?

Is he facing this on his own, or do u have to bring it up?

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

And he is going back to IC to work on fixing what is wrong. He doesn't have to be on here in order to fix that.

very true, since he went back to the old ways after being here. If he is to heal, he is going to need somebody to ask the tough questions. Can his IC do that? Do you know the IC? Is he/she tough? Is it the same IC from before? Cause that didn't work out either.

He obviously can't fix it overnight

definitely not. it obviously takes more than 2 years. So another 2 years from this reset.

I am strong enough to know that if he doesn't fix this I will leave

where is your boundary? what is the line? That statement leaves so much open to interpretation and no measurable time frame. What are your limits? What are you committed to? How long are you willing to wait. What are you willing to tolerate? Time to get real with yourself. Granted this was not A (that you know of) but pre-A. Is that acceptable? how long do you allow him to fix his shit? Where was the communication from him? where was the part where he said. "TG I am noticing I have a crush on a coworker. And I need your help. I don't know what to do. And do not know how I got here." When did that happen?

Jeez Aubrie,

You just made me lose it. Love you, and thank you.

I am not trying to bargain. I know what this is, and what has happened. He has to fix it. I am here for now to see if he does.

Dr J,

I don't have the answers to all your questions concerning me. Too early on.

Concerning IC, new one recommended by my IC and she rocks so I am hoping his will be good. Right now I am asking the hard questions and he has no answers. He is still processing that he did this. I know everyone here believes he set out to do this. And that is fine. I know this is a behavior he just engages in, all the time. He just tweakes it a bit for women that he wants validation from. So I don't feel he even recognizes when he is doing it. I have watched him do it, it is one way with men, one way with women he has boundaries with and one way with other women. But he has done it all his life. This will really be something he has to work at. And uncover why he does it. It is the behavior that leads him down the slippery slope, I think he is just now processing that.

Honestly, I can say I am really grateful I have taken this past year to continue to work on me. It is paying off right now. I am in a much better place than I was two years ago. I do know that I can leave and be ok, I also know that I can give him time to see if he is going to fix this. If he isn't serious about it and putting forth a lot of effort, then I will have my answer.