SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Warning, this may be triggery for some. It was SUPER triggery for me (and I am 7 years out and hardly ever trigger anymore).

This article compiles evidence from several studies that suggest that men (as potential mates) are assigned more value by other women when they have partners, particularly ATTRACTIVE partners. The article asserts that this is far more common in younger women than older women.

Even though the source of the article may be questionable (Psychology Today), it really hit home for me. Even thought I did not know OW, and had never met her, she was (and still is) FIXATED on me. With the exception of a few occasions shortly after Dday, for the past 7 years I have been the source of all of OW's wrath, from friendship attempts ("You'd really like me if you got to know me") to long tirades regarding my physical appearance (I am a hundred times more attractive than OW, but like a middle schooler, she likes to write me and tell me how "fugly" and "fat" I am ). It'd be insulting if it weren't so laughable.

At the time of the affair, my FWH really didn't have much going for him: dead end job (although it was in management, most of his check went to his XW for his teenage COM), broken down car, miserable disposition, drinking and gambling problems, etc.

She "met" him online, as she shared a mutual friend with FWH and I on social networking. She stalked our profiles long before either of us new she existed. She introduced her self to FWH through the messaging feature. All of his pictures were of him and me (and many of just me), so what could she possibly see in him?

An excerpt:

Due to this asymmetry, mate copying is more common among females than males. In studies where women are asked to rate the attractiveness of photographs of men posed with a female partner versus alone, men pictured with a partner are generally considered more attractive. This finding has been replicated when participants view speed-dating footage. Controlling for individual characteristics, men perceived to be more successful at the process were favored over those that were not (2).

This general finding does not hold for all ages. Younger females, due partly to their inexperience, appear to be more inclined to copy mate choices than their more mature counterparts. This is speculated to be due to younger females having less experience in making mate decisions. Older females are more practiced at the discrimination task, and hence may be more confident in the choices they make.

A caveat to these findings is that mate copying appears to only occur if the male’s previous female partner is considered attractive. In other words, men are considered more attractive only if their previous partner is regarded as beautiful. In socially monogamous societies, most men will become partnered at some point. A man with a highly physically attractive partner may have something desirable that a man with a less physically attractive partner does not.

Anyway, this just really hit home for me, and I thought some others would relate.

As an FYI, my FWH's OW went on to become a serial OW, chasing after many more MM and WSOs, until she had another OC (and got that one to marry her).

Here is the link to the article:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-mating-game/201409/why-we-want-who-we-want

Staying away from the article...because I'm not sure I can handle much more today! But I'm sure this is accurate in our sitch.

OW wanted to skin me and wear me. She wanted my life...my husband...my kids.

I think there's a lot of merit to this, sadly.

I didn't read the article, but I can see it being accurate. Sadly.

Sounds about right... WBF's AP had actively made efforts to act more like me/pursue interests that I pursued, even before the A. I don't think even for a moment that the A was about me rather than about AP's obsession with shagging anything with a puls--I mean, my WBF, but it definitely factored in(WBF has even confirmed).

Perhaps if she could manage to emulate a tenth of my sense of self-respect, she'd be happier in her life. Oh well, not my problem.

I'm not sure that Fat Bottomed Girl wanted to be me (although Holy Chick did). But Fat Bottomed Girl upped her game after meeting me. I think competition is part of some women's psyche. Me...well I've never been attracted to attached men and never liked competing with other women (even at school), I'm more of the sisterhood type. But I know that there are many women who do compete against other women, rather than being happy in themselves.

I'd love to see more research into this topic, as it seems to fit the MO of a serial OW I worked with as well (her APs of choice were co-workers with seemingly happy marriages and beautiful wives).

Do the OWs garner a sense of attractiveness based on the attractiveness of the BS?

This is highly disturbing to me, but explains so much.

I agree with this. The night my hubby met OW1 he was showing everyone a picture of me in a bikini from a recent vacation of ours. Game on, I'm sure she said.

I had never met her but she must have poured over my FB page, because she sure knew who I was when we finally came face to face. icky!

Read this article yesterday! Very insightful.

I've always wondered why my WH's AP wanted to get involved with a married man----why? Why settle for being someone's mistress?

The article made some good points as to why that might be.

The night my hubby met OW1 he was showing everyone a picture of me in a bikini from a recent vacation of ours. Game on, I'm sure she said.

When I was younger, it never ceased to amaze me how many of my girlfriends' friends and even sisters would flirt with me when my girlfriends were not around. It always my very strong impression that it was more about "competition" than it was about me. Maybe some woman we didn't know would flirt with me when we were out, but it was definitely much stronger from the ones we knew. And don't get me wrong, most girlfriends and sisters didn't do this, but it was common enough that I noticed it.

I don't know if this is related, but another thing I noticed a fair number of times was what I perceived as "jealousy" between supposed girlfriends. For example, one would get engaged, be showing off her ring, everybody raving over it, including the one I was with, and then we would leave and she would say to me, "did you see that ring, it was so (small, ugly, etc.)."

In my experience, both of those types of behaviors was much less prevalent among guys.

Glad you shared the article!

I didn't really understand neither why somebody would be attracted to a married man. After all, is there not enough single men around?

But if you think in a "3 yrs old mentality" of way... Guess who wants the toy when somebody else is playing with it? It's all about projection, which seems a theme if you don't have high self esteem. If the WS is married to a beautiful and attractive wife (why, thank you! , it means the wife had very good reasons to marry him. So he becomes valuable to the COW.

My husband "proved" that the was a family man when he would talk about our activities at the weekend (she wanted to do stuff with him on weekends, with my kids and hers). He was higher up than her in his company. We are higher on the socio-economic scale as her (because we save, save, save). So, of course, she was attracted to that. I am sure that she liked him as a person, just as I do.

But sorry, he's taken. By me.

Couple of things come to mind.

The OW in my situation does not know me and I don't even know if she has ever seen a picture of me. WH said she never wanted to know anything about me or acknowledge my existence. She's 13 years younger than I am, a few inches taller, obsessed with designer clothing, extremely into her looks, has a "dancer's body" and wears enough makeup to be in a vegas show. In other words, she's the exact opposite of me. So I am not sure the mate copying thing applies to me because not only does she not know what I look like, at face value most people would say she's the more physically attractive one.

OW will tell themselves anything in order to rationalize their poor choices. My WH's AP said "I don't have time for a boyfriend because I work such crazy hours." Sure...keep telling yourself that.

The article does make a lot of sense...you always seem to know what you want (as far as material possession) when you see someone else with it. Handbag, coat, car, etc. Also, some people just love a challenge and the ultimate in validation is getting some married person to leave their spouse for you. Doesn't that sound so sick and twisted?

Thanks for posting this, very interesting. I always wondered if there was a name for this behavior, bc I too noticed it with both OW in my sitch. It's honestly made me put up a wall in regards to making female friends bc of that jealous/competitive vibe I've picked up from too many women. It's made for a bad joke with WH and I- like which one of us is the psycho chick magnet?

It's made for a bad joke with WH and I- like which one of us is the psycho chick magnet?

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think you've misinterpreted the report. I read the "mate copying" not as a description of the value of a potential mate based on current attractive partner, but on previous attractive partner.

I do not see any reference to assigning greater value to a man currently with an attractive partner.

Men with more attractive PREVIOUS partners (the word "previous" is used repeatedly, as is "ex-partner") are views as more attractive as mates--as long as they do not have too many previous partners; the perception of promiscuity negatively impacted attractiveness.

This is not a study about infidelity at all. It's about how men and women evaluate suitability of potential partners. Our bad experiences with OWs aside, it is not logical to conclude that women want men who are already partnered.

Take another look at the article. It describes how the ability to have gotten attractive partners in the past (preferably fewer than 5) makes a man more attractive to women. It does not refer to women favoring men IN relationships. (It explicitly states, in fact, that promiscuity and lack of commitment is a turn-off.) The quote used at the end--which is from a writer unrelated to the study) is a poor choice for summarizing the contents of the article.

Well, souls sto, I see what you are saying, and perhaps I am projecting a bit (as you seem to imply), but within the first paragraph of the article is this:

Mate copying is the idea that an individual’s decision to mate—or form a relationship with a potential partner—is impacted by observation of that person in a relationship with another, or knowledge of their romantic history.

This led me to google "Mate Copying" (I had heard of "mate poaching" before, and wondered if this was a similar phenomena) and fell down the "mate choice copying" rabbit hole. Apparently, this study began with young female guppies, after the young female guppies watched the males (many that they had previously rejected) partner with older female guppies, the young female guppies "changed their minds" and pursued the male guppies partnered with the older female guppies.

Thus began the research into human "mate copying", which lead to articles such as "I Want What She's Having : Evidence of Human Mate Copying." (must has access to the journal, or access it through library/university to see the whole thing, but the abstract sums it up), and many others, including things like "Mate Copying: Why Single Females Find Married Males Attractive (also cites many of the same studies).

Then there is the actual definition of "mate-choice copying", which is defined as:

mate choice copying

Mate choice copying describes a non-independent mate choice event. Mate choice copying is said to occur when the likelihood that one individual will mate with a particular individual increases or decreases based upon observing a sexual interaction between the "target" and another individual. …

Personally, I have never, EVER dated someone after watching them date someone else. I ALWAYS date outside my social circle, I'd rather expand my own social circle than date someone whose ex I know (awkward).

As for your assertion that this only applies to "previous" partners, I think your definition of "previous" is being taken too literally. Previous is the "one before/one preceding", not the one who you've divorced/ended your relationship with, etc. I AM the "previous" partner, because I came BEFORE OW. Nowhere is the definition of previous the same as FORMER, or PAST (as in relationships), so I don't know how you came to the conclusion that it refers only to an "ex partner".

Also, after reading all of these replies, I fell into the OW rabbit hole, and looked her up on Pinterest (where I have her blocked, after she sought me out and began repinning all of my pins), and SURPRISE, her last "pin" is a quote that says:

"There is nothing quite as sexy as a man who loves his wife.

Every woman in the room wants to be her."

Not to suggest that this is scientific evidence, but for me, point taken.

[This message edited by Want2help at 6:25 PM, September 10th (Wednesday)]

Double post

[This message edited by Want2help at 6:23 PM, September 10th (Wednesday)]

MissedRedFlags- you have stated that your sister is an AP, a mistress, don't know if she is also a wayward, but has she given you any insight as to why she enjoys being the cliche boss's mistress.

Want2Help, that quotation on her Pinterest page is hilarious!

I find this really thought-provoking. In my case, I only met the OW once (months before the A--she was distinctly unfriendly, which I found odd at the time, but I gather she was already in pursuit then and saw me as the competition). She told WH she preferred that he was married as relationships with a more secure future scare her off. (Which is not what one would gather from her low-grade stalking since D-day, but whatever...) So the fact that he was with someone else was part of the appeal.

I would describe her as a kind of inferior version of me, though. She is younger (a plus in his eyes), but otherwise, we have a similar kind of look (eerily, I felt, because neither of us are his usual type), but I am a considerably more attractive version of the type. We are in a similar line of work, but I am more highly esteemed in it than she will ever be.

Also, WH describes her as the sort of woman who has few female friends--she is competitive with other women in a passive-aggressive, bitchy kind of way. I am sure that she took satisfaction in the poaching aspect--and I have had it confirmed that the fact that he ultimately chose me over her bothered her in a competitive kind of way--he dropped her on D-day without a second thought.

That said, she apparently showed no interest in me. Didn't even ask basic questions like was he still sleeping with me (yes!). And no interest in our children either--he did show her pictures (BLECH) and she cooed appropriately but I don't think there were any signs of active interest, or inclinations towards appropriation.

Thanks for posting--thought-provoking!

Want2Help, that quotation on her Pinterest page is hilarious!

Normally I don't involve FWH with OW updates unless I feel it may affect him (she has integrated herself into his family since the A ended), but I had mentioned this article to him and told him I am going to post it on SI, as it reminded me of OW and thought others may find it interesting.

Hours later I told him about OW's pinterest post (pinned after I posted the article here), and he said:

"Did you post the article on Pinterest, too?!"

"No, of course not."

"Are you SURE she's not following you on SI? …Never mind, she's not smart enough (to be on SI)."

Seriously though, she was able to see how we interacted on social media (this was before there was any "privacy" when social media was in its infancy), she got to see pictures of us together, she undoubtedly heard about us from our co-worker (we worked together and were one of those couples regarded as "disgusting" for being very close and joking/flirting 24/7).

She was 20 at the time of the A, FWH mid thirties, me somewhere in between.

I cannot help but draw lines between our circumstances and the findings in these studies. Even the guppy one.

[This message edited by Want2help at 8:04 PM, September 10th (Wednesday)]

I read the article, and found that it validated what my girlfriends have told me about the OW for years (she was my best friend, but we had a very tight circle of friends).

They all said "you're the only one she felt had a life/spouse/family worth stealing."

I firmly believe it was "mate copying." She commented frequently (as my friend, TO ME) about envying my marriage, my ex-husband's parenting, my "happy family", etc.

She absolutely found my ex desirable after watching him as a husband in my marriage.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.