SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

But what if they pass it?

Then you have a starting point for a successful R. It will ensure there is no major TT being withheld.

said that polygraphs often damage any hope of recovery.

No. Continued lies damage recovery. If the polygraph results in the damage of hope, it is because the WS is still lying.

did you read the text messages?

Did they give any indication of them meeting?

A 5 months sexting relationship with someone who live next door and it never became physical? That's 150 days of a man and a woman telling each other they want to have sex with each other, with no distance issue to prevent them for doing what they want. I find it hard to believe, frankly.

Did the neighbor see your wife together in person during the past five months? If so, what did they talk to each other? Not a single grabbing each other's ass?

My observation based on at least hundreds of these threads is the "no physical" is the first lie, next comes "just one time."

It is possible that it did not become physical, but that is hard to believe since it was so close and the opportunity was always present.

Just because two people meet doesnt mean it has to be written in a text.

My biggest question, is why didn't she answer your text the night you were playing hockey.

It's been a tough battle because of her low self-esteem, lack of coping skills, and a defiant/rebellious attitude.

Affairs are many times an eye opener to underlying problems. So this is no time to sweep anything under the rug.

The affair is one thing, but most BS's also find their spouses ability to lie to be very disturbing, the how could they lie to me for so long and so easily.

Lying becomes a habit and lying gets easier. So all of this needs to be stopped now. If she is lying, make sure she knows that if she tells you the truth, a D doesnt have to happen.

She needs to read several books with the most important being Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.

She has to learn about boundaries and how to deal with them.

She also has to learn about how low self esteem causes these things to happen.

I am very sorry you are here.

I hear you brother I would have never have thought that my fWW would have had sex with another married man because of abuse issues from her childhood. We dated for over a year without having sex.

On Dday my fWW swore on her life that she never had sex or any other form of physical contact with the married OM.

At the time I had not hard proof. I wanted to believe her. But I had a hard time believing that because it went on for too long.

Two weeks later I had solid physical proof that she was having sex with OM. When I showed it to her she said It was only once. I pressed harder and then it was a couple of times. Finally after I threw down the divorce papers in front of her she admitted they had been meeting at a hotel for sex for months.

I know, I know everybody is different. I thought I was too.

I would like to say you are handling this in a very good way.. I can tell you are quality.

A person will lie all the way to a lie detector test because the fear of change is that great. I am sure you already know that given your profession.

A key question you must answer is will her passing or failing a polygraph test change an outcome of a decision you make?

The pain you feel right now might not get any better knowing if it was physical. Sometimes you can just say.. It likely happened and if it didn’t, that is ok too. In other words, you can forgive “unilaterally”. It does not mean confession is not important.

I was in an airport after discovering my wife’s A thinking, my gut once told me she had affair years earlier. I thought about making her take a test. Instead, I just made told her look, I am going to offer you something that will set our relationship perhaps free from all guilt’s.. it is up to you to decide if you want to hold any guilt inside.. I can handle it but for me to know will only help my mind get to a conclusion and accept. This is your chance to come completely clean and fact is I am doing this for you and us. Just tell me if you had any other A’s so we can move on with working on what needs to get fixed. And you can do something similar and then let it go..

Now that airport situation happed weeks after my dday.. my W confessed all at that very moment. I do believe it was easier for both on the phone and not face to face. I am sure it was very hard to face her own fears and confess. Perhaps this pressure will be enough without going through a polygraph.. just an idea.

But that confession was of value to me. It was a first step toward being open again like when we were first married. The mask are off so to speak. There were things unanwered too and I am ok with those things today. That was me being flexible.

Forgiveness does not mean ignoring what has been done or putting a false label on betrayal. It means rather, the evil act no longer remains as a barrier to the relationship.

You might find is surprising to know I am in a very good marriage today after discovering my W’s A 6 or 7 years ago. And my W had a 9 year A with her boss. Imagine that? It does not mean my pain was any worse than yours right now. It took me over 3 years to get to a point just to execute forgiving.

She changed and I changed. Perhaps someone you have arrested in the past came out on the other side a changed person too?

To rush into forgiving is not forgiving either. Forgiving can be cheap and you both can be burdened with unresolved feelings.

There are consequences for what evil behaviors. Perhaps you should protect and love yourself first. Go get a STD test and let your W know this is what you need to do for you. It sends a message of consequence and understanding that hey, you have violated my vow and it is going to need to be earned for me to trust again. And that will be a small good result and message.

She told me and our MC that I couldn't be a better husband and father, so -- if that is the case -- what more can I do if everything I've already done wasn't enough to keep her from cheating?

Oh.. I heard the same exact thing... and no doubt that question also followed.

We can look at ourselves too.. What is it about me that I could have done far better so my W’s reaction would be such she does not seek the affirmations from someone else. That said, you cannot look at yourself as not an amazing man already.. You are to that to me.. to think service to me in the military and as a policeman tell me, you are willing to sacrifice your own life for the safety of me and my family. Sometimes you did the best you could and that is all you could do at that time. It does not mean we stop learning and training.

Another question for me in my own journey was why couldn’t my W feel strong enough to just tell me what was missing? Why could she not tell you her feelings in a way you could not or did not have a chance to react? Did I not always listen, complacency, or just my own personality? And some people no matter what you could have said or done, nothing could have been done. But we are only human.

As far as your sex right now.. Sex to typical men is the utlimate affirmation and a woman will use it knowingly or not. A gift to you perhaps in her shame and guilt in an attempt to bring you closer to her.

[This message edited by trynhard at 9:58 AM, February 2nd (Monday)]

Forgiveness can happen if you can understand the why. And as time goes by, the pain eases, mainly because you just get used to what happened. It is no longer a shock. You can forgive, but you will never forget.

If you wife has any childhood issues which causes her low self esteem, that is one area that does need to be discussed, and is one area that can cause affairs to occur. Mainly because years of feeling this way and maybe years of denying and lying, the WS thinks differently than you do.

Fullgoose,

I think you're handling this well, the only thing you have to do differently is freeing yourself of your preconception that this was not a PA.

1. If all the people on this forum were together in a big room and you asked them "How many of you were told by their partners that it never went physical and then you found out it did?" you would see about 90% of hands up in the air. If you were to ask them "How many of you started out their 3d on SI stating their partner had a EA only and then found out it was a PA?" you would see about 70% of hands up in the air.

2. It doesn't matter if it seems out of character, you won't believe how many times people find out that their wives performed acts with the OM they never did for them, or fell for very stupid or lame hook up lines, or fell in surprisingly short time to the OM. A friend of mine had to wait 3 months to get a kiss from the GF that would become his wife; 18 years later she slept with another man HOURS after meeting him for the first time.

3. Women who experienced abuse in the past are often subject to fall prey of players, much more than women who didn't have that kind of problem.

4. 5 months is almost HALF A YEAR. It is not believable that two adults wanting to have sex have that much chance and that much time and don't carry it out.

What I wrote above is not to make you feel bad. It's because you NEED to have the Whole truth before you can successfully and really reconcile.

R is one hell of hard work for both the BS (You) and the WS (your wife), you want to do it right. If two years from now you should find out (because she confess, or because the OM tells you, or because you stumble upon it by chance) that it HAD gone physical, all your hard work will just blow up and you'll have to start all over again. Look deeper now, avoid regretting later.

[This message edited by italianjob at 11:41 AM, February 2nd (Monday)]

A 5 months sexting relationship with someone who live next door and it never became physical? That's 150 days of a man and a woman telling each other they want to have sex with each other, with no distance issue to prevent them for doing what they want. I find it hard to believe, frankly.

Ditto. But, of course, I don't know your wife. Mine swore an oath on everything that is righteous and good, and all of her relative's graves hers wasn't a PA. Until I caught her naked in his bed.

I also think that I wouldn't be able to live next to her EA partner and would have to move.

Best of luck, my friend. R is marathon.

Hey, everyone.

I need to switch gears for a second. I know I may come across as being naive or like I am defending her, but I have some very real concerns that I need those with experience to chime in on. I especially would like to hear from those who were able to reconcile (for no other reason than you OBVIOUSLY worked through what I am about to ask... I don't mean any disrespect to those who divorced).

1. IF (note the emphasis) my wife is being totally truthful -- no PA, everything is on the table, and she is willing to never cross that line again -- is it simply time that takes away the feeling of "I can never again have what I wanted"?

2. Again, IF she is being truthful, what should I say when she asks what can she do to make things better? All I can say is "be truthful, work on fixing yourself through therapy, be positive, and work with me instead of against me." That doesn't satisfy either of us, though. She is showing genuine remorse, sobbing uncontrollably, and keeps saying how bad she feels when she sees what she did to me. IF she is telling the truth, what CAN she do for me to make it better (other than what I listed above)?

And guys, I need to share something else with you: After my mom and dad were killed, I lived with my uncle and his family. When I was thirteen, my aunt divorced my uncle when she found out that he was cheating on her after thirty years of marriage. How did she find out? He gave her herpes.

I share this with you because I lived through that, too, and I realize there is a time to divorce and a time to forgive. Those times are very subjective and personal. My aunt didn't hesitate because of who she was and who he was. My boss' wife forgave him after he had a PA seventeen years ago and he said their relationship is the best it has ever been. It is different for each person.

I can definitely agree that a great majority of cheaters are going to try lying their way out of their mistake, but I studied psychology before. When I hear 85% of cheaters will lie about having a PA, I am objective enough to realize that 15% won't. Again, I am not rationalizing or defending MY wife. I am just guarding against knee jerk reactions based on subjective experiences.

Thanks again.

. Again, IF she is being truthful, what should I say when she asks what can she do to make things better? All I can say is "be truthful, work on fixing yourself through therapy, be positive, and work with me instead of against me." That doesn't satisfy either of us, though. She is showing genuine remorse, sobbing uncontrollably, and keeps saying how bad she feels when she sees what she did to me. IF she is telling the truth, what CAN she do for me to make it better (other than what I listed above)?

You can print this out and give it to her. Be sure to black out anything that says "SI" on it, if you want to keep this place as your "safe place" for now.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/reconciliation/what-every-wayward-spouse-needs-to-know.asp

I strongly urge both of you to read the book "Surviving an affair".

Also, try to focus on each other's emotional needs and fullfill them as much as possible.

There are other suggestions, which others will say.

Best wishes

When I hear 85% of cheaters will lie about having a PA, I am objective enough to realize that 15% won't.

There is more to this than numbers. There is too much opportunity here and too close together. You don't think this OM would have asked and asked to do this in person. Why did your wife not do this in person.

An affair changes the way a person thinks, and many of your wife's answers are only answering today, looking back.

She liked the attention, called outside validation. But in order to keep 99% of the affairs going, the WW usually has sex, just to keep the affair, the excitement and the outside validation going.

What would be the purpose of this OM to continually only text.

1. IF (note the emphasis) my wife is being totally truthful -- no PA, everything is on the table, and she is willing to never cross that line again -- is it simply time that takes away the feeling of "I can never again have what I wanted"?

Your wife willing never to cross that line again...she has no idea if she ever will or not again. Not until she fully understand why she did it this time. It is easy to say she felt unappreciated, but what about next time.

What she can do now and forever long you need, is to always allow you to look at her phone, electronics and have all of her passwords. Be completely accountable for her whereabouts 24/7. She lost her right to privacy.

What do you mean you can never again have what you wanted...you mean your old marriage back. You never can, like your wrote, it can be better, but it will never be the same.

You will always remember, and you will always have memories and triggers. But time helps a great deal.

Dude, keep it simple, get both of you into IC then in MC in that order ASAP, when you get to MC, see what happens next. Try not to over analyze it until she is really ready to open up about where she is at.

Rug sweeping must be avoided.

Best STEP.

1. IF (note the emphasis) my wife is being totally truthful -- no PA, everything is on the table, and she is willing to never cross that line again -- is it simply time that takes away the feeling of "I can never again have what I wanted"?

Dunno if that feeling ever completely goes away. It's dealt with like a loss. It's not like time made other losses disappear, it made it bearable.

2. Again, IF she is being truthful, what should I say when she asks what can she do to make things better? All I can say is "be truthful, work on fixing yourself through therapy, be positive, and work with me instead of against me." That doesn't satisfy either of us, though. She is showing genuine remorse, sobbing uncontrollably, and keeps saying how bad she feels when she sees what she did to me. IF she is telling the truth, what CAN she do for me to make it better (other than what I listed above)?

What do you want from her, if the above isn't enough? You know there is no magic bullet, so take some time to examine whether the unsatisfying part of the above is because everything is so fresh and nothing is going to undo it, or because you think there is something missing that you want from her.

I can definitely agree that a great majority of cheaters are going to try lying their way out of their mistake, but I studied psychology before. When I hear 85% of cheaters will lie about having a PA, I am objective enough to realize that 15% won't. Again, I am not rationalizing or defending MY wife. I am just guarding against knee jerk reactions based on subjective experiences.

Not sure I agree with those numbers but the only reliable facts you have right now to establish an objective reality is that your wife lied to and betrayed you. Until she can establish otherwise, she is suspect. You can give her the time and space to establish trustworthiness - even if she is still lying, like my wife did.

Things aren't set in stone here. Whether or not she is still lying, try not to borrow trouble - deal with it when it comes. If she turns out to be telling the truth, the reality that she lied to and betrayed you regardless of how she did it still has to settle in.

If she is honestly remorseful and you still want to be with her, it will work.

Whenever there are questions, simple questions that require a simple factual answer, that are not answered, you have to question.

The question here is, why didn't she answer your text when you were gone and she was supposedly only texting this guy?

Unanswered questions with I dont know and I dont remember answers are always suspected to be lies.

Whether or not you can R if she had a PA is up to you, but like your boss, it can happen and become a better marriage.

Craig2001...

I'm sorry. A lot of people have asked about her not replying to my text while I was at hockey, and I have brushed it off.

Her not replying to me wasn't a big deal at all. I incorporate it into the story just to give backdrop.

Three things:

1. We fought before I left for hockey because it was her birthday (talk about a trigger... what do you think we'll remember each birthday now?) and she was mad because I didn't have the kids make her cards. So we were both in foul moods.

2. She put the blanket and pillow in the room.

3. There were no texts or calls during the time I was gone.

Again, sorry for blowing everyone off and for leading everyone to believe there was more to the lack of a reply than there actually was.

1. IF (note the emphasis) my wife is being totally truthful -- no PA, everything is on the table, and she is willing to never cross that line again -- is it simply time that takes away the feeling of "I can never again have what I wanted"?

The key is the answer to the second question below, and also what's in your heart.

2. Again, IF she is being truthful, what should I say when she asks what can she do to make things better? All I can say is "be truthful, work on fixing yourself through therapy, be positive, and work with me instead of against me." That doesn't satisfy either of us, though. She is showing genuine remorse, sobbing uncontrollably, and keeps saying how bad she feels when she sees what she did to me. IF she is telling the truth, what CAN she do for me to make it better (other than what I listed above)?

I think it is a sad truth that the burden of recovering the marriage is on the BS. All the WS can really do is to return to proper behavior. Stop cheating, start acting like a proper spouse. Yes, you can actively work to improve the marriage, but that is (in hindsight) what all couples should be doing anyway. That's all you can really ask of the WS, then. Stop doing that, and start acting like you are married and committed to the marriage. Fixing themselves? I guess. But it is all about behavior ultimately. Behave yourself!

That leaves you to find a path forward. It is your burden to bear. The WS simply cannot bear it for you, unfortunately. Taking out your anger on her will ultimately be unproductive past some point too.

It's just a horrible place to be in.

You will want to do certain things to distance your marriage from the incident. Possibly even move to put some physical distance (I honestly could not stay next to someone my wife had had an affair with). She needs to accept them. These are active recovery steps for you that she can show support for you with, and give her an opportunity to introspect on what is truly import, to prioritize, and to commit. Seek these moments out.

Best of luck, my friend.

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 3:02 PM, February 2nd (Monday)]

Again, IF she is being truthful, what should I say when she asks what can she do to make things better? All I can say is "be truthful, work on fixing yourself through therapy, be positive, and work with me instead of against me." That doesn't satisfy either of us, though. She is showing genuine remorse, sobbing uncontrollably, and keeps saying how bad she feels when she sees what she did to me. IF she is telling the truth, what CAN she do for me to make it better (other than what I listed above)?

Personally, the best thing that I could imagine to help you reconcile, is the work that she puts in on herself. If you have to walk her through this, the chances of success aren't very high.

She has to want to better herself. She should be ordering books, looking for support groups, seeking out IC---all of these things without your impetus.

How is character described? What a person is doing when no one is watching. She has to do this for herself.

That doesn't mean that she doesn't have empathy. She wouldn't be remorseful without it. But she needs to do both---put her recovery first WHILE helping you. The truth is, your wife has not only betrayed you...which is painful, but she has betrayed herself---and it takes a whole lot more to fix that. It may sound insensitive to you, but it really is the key here, because this is the root of the problems.

Seriously, which do you think would make you feel better---your wife crying again, saying how sorry she is that she hurt you, or seeing her burn both ends of the candle---trying to discover how she could do such things? Not saying that she can't do both, but which is better for the long run?

It is consistent actions over time that we are looking for. I am willing to bet that if you witness her, on her own, making strong efforts to get to her core problems, that will have the most significant impact on your healing. No matter what, this is a long road ahead, and you are at the very beginning. Your wife might not even have it in her to do the work necessary. But that is what I would be looking for.

[This message edited by jb3199 at 4:29 PM, February 2nd (Monday)]

She have to work on herself to understand why she did this and what can be done to avoid a repeat under the same circumstances.

She needs to give you full transparency about all her electronics (Phone, PC, Ipad, whatever) and her whereabouts at any moment and anytime you ask. For several months this is going to happen often but if she will be fully transparent, you'll eventually get to a place where you feel safe again and won't ask so often.

You both need to talk a lot, take time to be together as a couple, and talk about your relationship and yourselves as persons. You need to communicate everything and everytime you feel something is not working even when you think you might upset each other (for example, my wife would be furious if I went out playing soccer or volleyball on her birthday, are you sure she was ok with you going out to play hockey?).

....

I'll go back to the EA/PA issue for the last time. I'm not trying to attack you or your wife, but I think you need to try and dig more on this subject before you decide that she told you the truth. This doesn't mean that this was a PA 100% and you are naive for believing it wasn't, but that the possibility of this being a PA is so high that it must be researched as thorougly as possible before you decide you believe her.

On this Reconciliation you are betting your Marriage and your Family as it is now, are you going to bet on a 15% chance?

Your WW and the OM have been telling each other they wanted to have sex for months, they had plenty of chance to meet and no distance between them. What makes you think it didn't happen? Because your wife wouldn't?

1. Would you have tougth she'd be sexting with that guy?

2. You said you tought it would have gone physical if you didn't find out, why do you think it could have happened later but didn't happen in the previous 5 months?

Because she told you it didn't happen?

1. She's been deceiving you for 5 months

2. She probably was sexting him while sitting in the same room with you and told you she was doing something else if you asked, so she lied to you in these 5 months

Why do you think she is telling you the truth about this without question?

This doesn't mean you should tell her you don't believe her and think this was a PA, but that you should critically review all the evidence you have, make clever questions, put a lot of questions about this in the poly test, and leave no stone unturned in making sure, or at least take your best shot at making sure, this wasn't a PA.

Proximity and length make this probability higher than the 15% you talk about IMO