SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

FullGoose,

Please read this below again from Itialian

I'll go back to the EA/PA issue for the last time. I'm not trying to attack you or your wife, but I think you need to try and dig more on this subject before you decide that she told you the truth. This doesn't mean that this was a PA 100% and you are naive for believing it wasn't, but that the possibility of this being a PA is so high that it must be researched as thorougly as possible before you decide you believe her.

On this Reconciliation you are betting your Marriage and your Family as it is now, are you going to bet on a 15% chance?

Your WW and the OM have been telling each other they wanted to have sex for months, they had plenty of chance to meet and no distance between them. What makes you think it didn't happen? Because your wife wouldn't?

1. Would you have tougth she'd be sexting with that guy?

2. You said you tought it would have gone physical if you didn't find out, why do you think it could have happened later but didn't happen in the previous 5 months?

Because she told you it didn't happen?

1. She's been deceiving you for 5 months

2. She probably was sexting him while sitting in the same room with you and told you she was doing something else if you asked, so she lied to you in these 5 months

Why do you think she is telling you the truth about this without question?

This doesn't mean you should tell her you don't believe her and think this was a PA, but that you should critically review all the evidence you have, make clever questions, put a lot of questions about this in the poly test, and leave no stone unturned in making sure, or at least take your best shot at making sure, this wasn't a PA.

Proximity and length make this probability higher than the 15% you talk about IMO

None of us know what happened or did not. What a lot of people who have been on the receiving end of infidelity are telling you is that very rarely do you ever get the full truth when you first catch them. There would have been a better chance of that if she actually came to you and confessed. What i have seen, is when a whole bunch of the people here tell you the same thing in different words, they are usually right. Remember, each of us thought are situations were unique when we first came her, but that is not the case. There is a fairly good degree of predictability of what WW of WH will do and say.

On the lie detector test. You have the ability to find an excellent examiner. You need to do it.

If you do it and she passes, a LOT of your questions and concerns will be successfully addressed, and you will regain some trust in her sooner.

If she fails it, then the real issue is what are you going to do? That you need to decide. Do not tell her if she fails it is over and then change your mind.

if you do not have her take the test, then you have no way of knowing really what is true and not because you have gathered no real evidence and were in the dark. You need to know and i see no other way for you to find out.

the worst possible outcome is if she is lying and you R and she walks next door and has sex with him again,.

i think i told you but if not, the second d Day os harder than the first, especially if you are kicking yourself in the ass knowing you could have avoided it.

"3. There were no texts or calls during the time I was gone."

fullgoose,

First....I am very sorry that you are having to deal with this mess....it sucks for sure.

I would like to point something out to you about this fact that you think means you DON'T have to worry about her not answering your calls and texts.

This POS was a NEIGHBOR....she did not need to call or text him if he simply came to your house and was there knowing you were gone til much later.

That and the fact this was a months long EA AND you say she was in a foul mood with you are huge red flags for a possible PA encounter IMO.

Does not mean that a PA certainly occurred, but I think you need to really question your assumptions here and dig into this issue.

It might be time for a poly tied to your 'amnesty' announcement.

Usually, a WS will crack with more info before the test is ever administered, if there is anything they are still TT'ing.

[This message edited by Dyokemm at 6:37 PM, February 2nd (Monday)]

Hey Goose,

Former cop here and I want to address some of your issues.

First of all: I have seen posters that have divorced because they discovered their spouse fantasized over someone else. Even without that other person’s knowledge or with no physical interaction. I remember one extremely distraught poster some years ago that divorced her husband because he groped a woman’s ass – a random woman at a bar, a woman that probably didn’t have a clue of the consequences of that action.

I have also seen posters that reconciled with wives that had multiple affair partners, wives that left them for the OM for some period of time, and wives that flaunted their affairs before seeing the light…

Reconciliation is based on two factors that need to be in place: your will to reconcile and her will to reconcile. If both are in place and both willing to do the work then your marriage can survive ANYTHING.

So I for one think you can reconcile. If you both want it.

I get what you are suggesting regarding the 85/15 ratio. BTW – I think that ratio is pulled out of a hat. It could be 50/50, 30/70 or even 1/99.

I remember a quote from my instructor on investigative technique back in the academy. He would often say “When you hear the beat of hooves you think horses, not zebras”. He was warning us on two things: Don’t ignore the obvious but never forget that maybe one day there would be another not so obvious reason.

It’s like we are not allowed to assume that those three teenagers wearing their baggy pants and bling, playing their loud obnoxious music and driving that way-too-expensive car had stolen it… But yet we tended to run the tags and even pull them over…

Friend – frankly to me then wanting to assume your wife is in the 15% group sounds a lot like you wishing that funny looking black and white horse-like animal coming round the corner is really a pigmy Clydesdale…

Maybe she is… maybe she isn’t…

I agree with the posters that doubt a long-term purely sexting relationship with all the opportunity they have had to be alone. The trend tends to be for men losing interest and moving on unless it gets to sex. The women would probably be content with the emotional thrill but once they start losing the man’s attention then sex becomes the currency to keep up the rush.

What I can tell you with 100% certainty is that your marriage can’t TRULY reconcile unless you have the truth.

Go back to my first paragraphs… Your marriage CAN survive you learning the truth. You CAN decide that no matter what – even if she admits to having gang-banged the entire D-shift of the local volunteer fire department – your marriage CAN survive.

But you discovering some important fact three years from now… Or you wondering where she is on a Friday evening six years from now… THAT will kill your marriage.

So you need the truth.

Telling her that failing the poly is a deal breaker… Not a good idea.

What you need to do (IMHO) is convince her that no matter what the truth is it has to come out. No matter how it hurts. Tell her that there will be an amnesty period. She tells the truth and you commit to not filing, throwing her out or going bananas for 30 days. Make it clear that once she tells you that it’s all out then you will demand a poly. Make it clear that if she can’t pass the poly then it’s basically putting you both back to square one but passing the poly will enable you to move on.

Look – Let’s be real here. What has happened has happened. IF they had sex there is no unsexing it. She won’t be capable of being true in the marriage carrying that albatross around her neck, and without assurance there won’t be any way for you to fully trust her again (and YES trust can be rebuilt over time). If however she’s telling you the truth right now and that is confirmed by the poly… Well that will advance your recovery by months.

You guys rock. Thanks so much!

Bigger... You said telling her that failing the poly is a deal breaker is not a good idea. Why? I already said that to her. I told her that she has an amnesty period right now. If we go to the poly and she fails it, we're done.

My attitude is that if she is willing to perpetuate my pain by continually lying -- even when given an amnesty period -- then it isn't going to work. I don't think someone could bend over backwards more than that.

Is there something I am missing?

fullgoose,

One thing I will like to bring up again brother is that there is no need to rush a decision. Another thing I will like to mention or ask is what does your gut tell you? In your field of work and experience and training, im sure you know or feel this!

There are people here from all walks and have been dealt with infidelity on here and as I mentioned before, you will get all point of views and as it was put out there, when most are leaning one way, its mostly right! Everything bigger said comes into play as well! It doesnt mean its the end!

You are at the beginning of a huge rollercoaster ride brother, your gonna be up and extremely down! No need to rush but I would strongly recommend you get as much as you can to help make any decision you do come to!!

In a case like mine, I had a pi and a lot more involved and its ongoing!!

When I hear 85% of cheaters will lie about having a PA, I am objective enough to realize that 15% won't.

My fWH had an EA. The ONLY reason it was only an EA was that they were 1,500 miles apart. He lied about other things - really about everything. Cheaters lie - that's a fact. Your wife was caught red handed, so she was caught as a cheater. Cheaters lie. Do you think she would come out and say "well, you found a text, so you might as well know - we've been having sex too." No, no way.

The EAs that don't turn physical are almost always because of the distance between the two people. EAs can be long distance.

I'm not one to say guilty until proven innocent - but a neighbor? Most people say things in an EA that they wouldn't say to someone that they would be seeing. Your wife was saying these things. He was/is a neighbor.

I strongly recommend you have her take the lie detector test. I know you want to believe her, but prior to finding this text, you would have told every last one of us that there was no way in hell your wife would cheat. Now you want to believe she wouldn't physically cheat. I understand why you want to believe that, but logically it doesn't make sense. She has shown you she's willing to cross a huge line. Is there a reason you think she wouldn't cross the next one?

Oh - for most women, EAs mean more than PAs. If there was talk other than sex, then she had feelings for him. If it was just sex, then why would she stop with texting?

Please, have her take a polygraph. Prove us all wrong. I'm still waiting for one person to prove this board wrong. Sadly, when the board smells shit, there's always a steaming pile behind the curtain, no matter how much the BS protests that their situation is 'different'.

Oh, my fWH swore for months he never told his AP he was in love with her. He acted like the thought of it alone was absurd and he would NEVER say that to her! That is, until I got my hands on copies of his texts. Guess what they were filled with?

Cheaters lie. I'm sorry - I know you want a different outcome, but cheaters lie.

I told her that she has an amnesty period right now. If we go to the poly and she fails it, we're done.

My attitude is that if she is willing to perpetuate my pain by continually lying -- even when given an amnesty period -- then it isn't going to work

Dealing with infidelity is a process that has many twists and turns. As we learn more about the A and gain a better understanding of what happened and why it happened, our perceptions change. Something that you consider to be a dealbreaker right now may not be so in 3 months from now.

There are so many people here who KNEW pre-DDay that infidelity was a dealbreaker but yet post-DDay they chose to reconcile. We can change our minds at any time - that is until we give an ultimatum.

If you say that failing the poly means divorce and she fails the poly - you cannot then change your mind. Don't paint yourself into a corner.

When I hear 85% of cheaters will lie about having a PA, I am objective enough to realize that 15% won't. Again, I am not rationalizing or defending MY wife. I am just guarding against knee jerk reactions based on subjective experiences.

See this? You are suggesting that you are being objective thinking that something that happens 1 time out of 10 is more probable in your case that something that happens 9 time out of 10, while people telling you that the other way around is more probable are biased because of subjective experience.

This demonstates that you are not looking at the facts in an objective way at all. You are thinking that since this is your wife then she's probably telling the truth just because you know her.

The percentage of cheaters who won't lie, in many cases won't because they can't. It's survival instinct, if she thinks something will be a dealbreaker for you and knows you have no proof of it she simply won't admit it.

Ask yourself this question: How many things that would make this look worse and you had no way of finding out or understand from the evidence you had, has she admitted to?

The point is:

you need to look for facts objectively, without letting your wish for a specific outcome influence your judgement.

That's because if you want a REAL reconciliation you need the Whole truth. If there is something that would be a dealbreaker and make you decide to Divorce, you need the Whole truth.

In any way you look at this you need the Whole truth.

Credence more or less beat me to it.

From your posts it sounds like you want to reconcile. That’s why I’m telling you that you CAN reconcile from ANYTHING as long as both you and she want to and are willing to do the work.

This does not mean you HAVE to reconcile.

If there is any action or event that IMHO absolves a spouse of any obligation to reconcile a marriage then infidelity has to be on top of that list. You don’t have to R if you don’t want to – but if you do then you are perfectly able to.

This is not the same as saying you will R no matter what. IMHO you need to work from a base of truth and knowledge. That’s why I think it’s imperative that you get to the bottom of how far this went and are content with the answers you get.

Frankly I think it’s a major point when we realize that divorce isn’t the worst outcome. The absolutely worst outcome is to remain in infidelity. You state the OM was not your WW class… Well… the OM is actually irrelevant to the core issue… WHY did she cheat? If you don’t do the work now to get that cleared and fixed… you are more or less doomed to remain in infidelity. THIS is one major reason for why the truth is required.

I hate ultimatums simply because few of us are willing to stand by them.

You know the limitations of poly’s. What if she fails one of ten questions? What if that one question isn’t really that major? Having given the ultimatum you only have one option and that is to divorce. If you don’t – having given an ultimatum – you position gets weak.

Instead consider using a more loosely worded “ultimatum”:

“We can only recover our marriage if we realize how far gone it really was. I need the truth and every time I discover something that you don’t offer me freely it eats at my belief that we can make it or that I should be putting my emotional wellbeing on the line. If you can’t be honest and I realize that then my will to reconcile will erode and at some point I will walk away”

The above type of “ultimatum” says it all while giving YOU the power to determine where your breaking point is.

I agree.

I was cheated on a LONG time ago by my ex-fiance. I forgave her and -- surprise -- she cheated on me again AND broke up with ME! When I recovered from that, I told all my friends that if anyone ever cheats on me again, "there's the door."

When that day came, that's initially how I felt, too. As time went on I kept divorce in the back of my mind, but started trying to piece everything together and evaluate our future. My vows to her, our kids, who I am as a man, and her good qualities (as opposed to the bad she's done) all came into play, and I started looking at my "there's the door" stance as a rather immature one.

And you are all correct... it is early. Yesterday was two weeks from D-Day. I am wired to pummel away at problems until they are solved. I've always been like that. So trying to be patient kills me, but I know it is necessary. It's something I need to grow as an individual. I know I will.

I know I've thanked you all before, but I'll do it again. Thanks for the messages of support.

I too found out this way, the sexting probably came after a physical relationship just because of the close proximity of the other person, (mine stayed with us in our home.) I would dig a little deeper something else is there. I heard the same excuse, "the attention". There's more to it.