SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm brand new here to this whole forum thing, but I need to get this off my chest and get some advice from non judgmental people. I don't want to just go around telling this type of thing to our friends and family, so here goes.

My wife and I have been together 7 years, married for 4 of them. She is now 24, and I am 28, you do the math there. We have 2 wonderful children, one is 3 1/2, the other is 8 months.

I work a normal 40 8-430 work week, and she is a waitress a few evenings a week, so we don't always get the time we need together.

So last August (2014) she had made some new friends at work, and started going out with them after work. No problem, I encourage her meeting new people because she doesn't have a lot of friends.

My problems started when she wouldn't come home till 5-6am, when I'm getting up for work. One night, way before she was even off work I told her she needed to get formula on her way home because we didn't have any and our baby was to be fed at 2. she didn't even come home that night so not only did I have to drag my kids to the store at 2am, I had to call off work because there wouldn't be anyone home.

This went on for 3 months, 3-4 nights a week. I tried every way I could think of to get through to her, calm, nice, angry, yelling, involving other friends and family. Nothing I did went through. All I really wanted was for her to come home at a decent hour.

Our bedroom life dwindled to that of a pinhole leak in a bottle, and she started to ignore a lot of the plans I had, or things I wanted to do.

Then I start hearing rumors about her staying at OW's (who is a lesbian) house and sleeping in the same bed together. I immediately asked her if she was having thoughts about her sexuality, if she was just experimenting, or if she was actually seeing this girl. She said no to all of them, as she has always been against making any kind of sexual contact with another woman.

I kind of believed her, but it was hard because of the source of the rumors is very credible.

Fighting, constant bickering, and an all around bad environment followed that for a week or two, until she left to stay at her mothers (with the kids) until we figured things out. Her mom would not allow her nightly outings, so they came to a stop right then. (she listens to her mom but not me????)

I started seeing a counselor to maybe help make some sense of it all and help get my marriage back on track, and sometime mid December she finally came home and started attending the counseling sessions with me, and everything was getting better, except our love life.

I found myself a lot happier than I had been even a year ago, way before all this happened, which I am confident made it easier to want to make her happy. This continued from mid December until this past Tuesday.

She had went out that night, and got in around 230 from what I can tell. That morning I was getting ready to kiss her on the cheek before I was off to work, and I just saw her phone there and got curious. I had never gone through her phone before, nor did I have a desire to.

That when I saw the text messages.

My wife texting with the OW about how she liked kissing her again, and wish she could keep kissing her. My wife saying she wishes things could go back to they way they were, but OW now is happy with a GF. My wife continues to go on saying she will never get over her and says how she badly wanted to go into OW's house last night.

Note that there is no actual proof that anything more than kissing (multiple occasions) happened, but. I hope you understand my mindset at 5am, discovering this.

I snapped pictures with my phone, put hers back and went to work. I couldn't concentrate on anything, so I left early to confront her about it. She dismissed everything to "joking around" except kissing her, which she says only happened twice, and she didn't have an explanation for as to why she did.

I'm not sure I believe any of that, there were no "lol"s or "haha"s in the conversation, and it indicated a very high level of emotion from both of them, even OW saying that she loves my wife, but doesn't want to hurt her GF.

No where in that conversation was even the slightest mention that I was even an obstacle.

My wife says she did not and would never cheat on me because she has higher morals that that, and is the reason she has no respect for my father or her father.

I tried contacting the OW to get her side (which by now I'm sure my wife has spoken to to make sure the stories jive)

I don't know what to do, I consider kissing in that nature cheating, as well as the seductive talk. But am I wrong for that?

It's only been 3 days, but she says she getting tired of me asking questions and bringing it up and has even threatened to move out if I don't just take her word for it and get over it.

This wasn't 3 or 4 text messages, it was 30-40, over an hour from 330am -445am.

I love her to death and I couldn't see my life without her.

But I'm lost on what to do, if I can believe her, and if I can even get passed it.

Every time I talk to her or see her, all I see is those messages and images forming in my head of them together.

Advice or insight is much appriciated.

Thank you and sorry for any spelling or grammar mistakes.

Where did the rumor come from, and what does she say she was doing all night for several weeks?

Sorry dude,

Don't believe a word she is saying!!! She is lying through her teeth. She spent nights in this chicks bed and all those nights out till early morning hours.......what do you think they are doing during that time?

And she is bitching after 3 days? Really??? How many months did she neglect her family, yet she is already threatening to leave after 3 days of questioning. You need to do some shock & awe type of action on her ass to wake her the hell up.

Or just get that polygraph scheduled and let her know that is the only way you can believe a word she says & move on. Her response to you telling her you want one will be your biggest clue.

Sending you much strength & hugs from Dayton!!

No. You are not wrong. Your wife has had an emotional (ea) and physical affair (pa). Right now what your wife is doing is a common reaction for wayward spouses when they get caught and are still in the fog of a fantasy relationship with their affair partner (AP). She is deflecting. She is trying to bully you into rugsweeping so she doesn't have to stop her behavior and account for her actions. She is trying to live perched on the fence between you and the children and her AP. You need to push her off the fence.

Sure, she can kiss and sleep and snuggle (and don't kid yourself that more didn't go on. It is very unlikely) and trade I love you's and I miss you's with her AP but not if she wants to continue to be married to you. You need to lay down your requirements (the requirements she has to meet consistantly in order to even be gifted the opportunity to begin to earn your trust back and remain in your marriage with an intact family).

Example of requirements:

1. Immediately go NC (no contact) with the AP. This includes a written NC letter stating neither is to contact each other in any way...ever. The relationship is over. The letter should not include any emotional rhetoric. (No I'm sorry, I will miss you etc.)

2. Block AP from all social media and phone/text

3. No contact/friendships with anyone who knew of the affair and helped cover it up or supported the relationship in any way. (The chicks she was hanging out with while going out with her AP most likely knew and should be off limits)

4. Full transparency at all times as to her whereabouts. This can include the use of GPS phone apps, Skype, snapchats etc.

5. Complete access to all electronic devices any time you want to look (nothing is to be deleted before you can see it),

You should be given all passwords to all email accounts, social media accounts etc. (Those you know about and those you don't. ..which requires her honesty)

6. She should answer any and all questions you have as often as you need to ask and until... (this could go on for months or even years) She should be willing to take polygraph if you so choose to help you in your quest to find whether you have the whole truth or not.

7. She needs to go to IC (individual counselling) and find out what is broken in her that allowed her to choose infidelity over all other options (therapy, divorce etc.) This can take time and requires dedication and a lot of work.

8. The activies that took place surrounding her A should be off limits. I.e. no bar hopping/drinking out with friends (not with you)

*This is a basic list. You may have more to add.

The most important ingredient for a couple who want to try to recconcile after infidelity is Remorse on the part of the WS (wayward spouse). Remorse is not to be confused with regret. She may regret getting caught. She may regret the consequences of getting caught. If she is remorseful, however she will demonstrate that by seeing and validating the extreme pain she has cause you and will want to whatever it takes to help you and repair your marriage.

You cannot nice her back. You have to make your requirements and let go of the outcome. You also need to let the other woman's girlfriend know. Oftentimes this can have quite an impact (the other woman is likely to throw your wife under the bus to save her own relationship thus ending the A altogether). Sometimes they just go deeper underground.

There are some good books that are often and highly reccomended here on SI. Not just friends by Shirley Glass and here is the link to the free pdf version of How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair. It is only 80 pages but IMO should be required reading by all affected by infidelity.

http://www.lindajmacdonald.com/how_to_help_11-06-10_final_pdf-.pdf

Here is a good article for you to read and share with your wife if and when she is open to it...

http://affaircare.com/articles/understanding-your-loyal-spouse/

Read as much as you can in the Healing Library (yellow box, upper left menu) particularly Q&As for the BS.

I am sorry you find yourself here but know that you will find support and guidance from others who can relate and want to help you navigate this horrible situation.

Remember, this is NOT your fault. No matter the condition of your M she had other choices. She chose infidelity. That is 100% on her.

Take care of you right now and your babies. You will get through this.

I'm sorry for the pain you've been going through. You have received good advice.

Have you been to see a lawyer?

Have you exposed her affair to family and friends?

Has she given you passwords to phones, emails etc.?

I strongly urge you to read http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=547220 and protect yourself and the kids!

Also, please google "No more mr. nice guy pdf" and read, it's a great book available online for free, and I think it might help you tremendously.

Keep talking to us, so we can continue to help you!

Best wishes

Cheating is cheating, it doesn't matter if its same or opposite sex. Your WW is full of shit and has been engaged in an A with this woman all of this time. And I do believe it was physical as well as emotional. Take away the fact that the OP is a woman and you still have a classic A scenario. And it needs to be treated just as if she was sleeping with a man. Whatever you do don't allow this to be swept under the rug, she is attempting to gaslight you into believing nothing happened and your the crazy one. The real facts are she had an A and is desperately trying to keep it under wraps, no matter what the cost. I suggest you put on your detective hat and dig deep, ask your WW to take a polygraph and see what she says. They say where there's smoke there's fire, but in your case the you have flames shooting out the roof. Don't let her bully you into thinking otherwise.

No matter what, something "not right" has happened - at the very least kissing and sleeping in the bed and keeping secrets. Infidelity. Lying. No matter what, she has been staying up all night and foregoing her responsibility to your and your children. Now, she is refusing sex. This is at the minimum, which both of her and you are in agree with the facts. As far as SEX, and IN LOVE, there is very, very possible. Who kisses in bed and ONLY kisses? Why would this "credible" person tell you? Plus, you've got to admit, your wife is looking and talking and acting very, very shady. Why can't she come up with a story that makes sense? I believe if a story does not make sense, then something is a lie.

So, what do you want? Does it even matter whether or not your wife had sex with other woman and "in love" with other woman? What exactly would you do if you knew the truth? You say you want to stay, but what if that means no more sex and continuing shady stuff?

I suggest that you have a talk-to-talk with your wife, lay on the table about what is acceptable and what is unacceptable to your marriage, what kind of marriage you want to have in this marriage, whether or not sex is OK in a marriage, and whatever else is in your problem. The goal being to have a better marriage for both of you. Tell her that to. Lay it all on the line and communicate.

I also suggest you to let go of all talk to your wife about other woman. Act like you've forgotten everything. It does no good to repeat yourself round and round with no proof. In the meantime, go buy a voice-activated recorder and put it in your wife's car. Within a week or two, you should get the truth of what is going on, either talking to other woman or to another friend who is confiding. After 2 weeks, you should at least know the truth, good or bad.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 4:07 AM, February 14th (Saturday)]

CK, sorry about your situation.

You know enough to take action, your WW may not have intended to seek the attentions of another woman, but it has happened. It has been happening for months.

She is now pining over the OW because she can't have her to herself. Her emotions and wants are high according to the text you found.

Time to shock her into reality, to see the consequences of her actions. Inform her family of your situation. Respect yourself, let your wife know that you will not share her with any other person, emotionally or physically.

Seek professional advise from a lawyer on your position, as well as IC for yourself on dealing with this special situation.

Focus on your kids, protect them and your finances.

I wish you strength to get through this.

I don't know what to do, I consider kissing in that nature cheating, as well as the seductive talk. But am I wrong for that?

It's only been 3 days, but she says she getting tired of me asking questions and bringing it up and has even threatened to move out if I don't just take her word for it and get over it.

No, you are not wrong with this at all and your wife telling you to get over it or she will leave is the worst thing a WW can possibly say.

Your wife most certainly doesnt get it. She had an affair. She had a sexual affair with another person.

And now she wants you to stop asking questions and get over it.

If this were a guy instead of a woman, you might be thinking differently, more angrily. Which I think some of us have seen before on here, but there is no difference, an affair is an affair.

She cant get this other person out of her mind, she will leave if you dont stop asking questions and get over it. ALL very bad signs from your wife.

At the very least, you wife needs to understand that she has done something terrible and she needs to grow up and become mature about this.

A few books like Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass and How to help your spouse heal from an affair (free on the internet) might help her understand.

But any BS (you) has a right to have all questions answered 100 times if the BS needs to ask that many times. And the BS will always need to discuss this.

The very worst thing that can happen, is to sweep this under the rug now, because if it is, it will happen again in the future.

Your wife most certainly needs to go to therapy herself and get this figured out right now.

Thank you for the replies, really.

I guess I had forgotten to mention that I already told her that she is to have no contact with the OW, but unless she quits her job, which she said she will not do, that's not entirely possible. So I'm not sure what to do there.

I think I am taking this really well, only because I dont really have time to think about it too much. 40-45 hours a week work, 15 hours for college, and the rest is with my kids and wife.

from what I've read it's normal for me to think I caused it somehow, too much time at work and school, or maybe I was an asshole or something. I know this isn't true, but it still crosses my mind.

I have made contact with the ow, only my blackmailing her to tell her GF, she says they kissed twice, once a few months back, and then the other night. She said they liked each other but nothing ever came of it because she got a gf.

As for the source of the rumors is mutual friend of hers that she has known since elementary school, who also happens to be a lesbian and knows a lot of other lesbians.

I really don't know what I want right now. I really don't know if I want to kick her to the curb because what if she is telling the truth, I don't want to put my kids through this, nor do I want to throw everything out the door. But at the same time I don't want to be with someone who can't even stay faithful or respect what I have to say.

It's all so confusing and draining.

You were not an asshole. Her reasons have nothing to do with that. Many gay people marry members of the opposite sex. Or maybe she is thrill seeking. In any event, any woman that stays out all night is up to no good. Sine she refuses to take any action to fix this, time to think about a break.

By the way, she refuses to quit a waitressing job? That speaks volumes.

true remorse is snot nosed crying oh my god i'll do anything type stuff. she does not have it now and whether she will develop it later or not is a big question. so is the question of whether or not you are willing to go through the emotional hell of waiting to see whether it ever shows up.

here there is a pretty united belief that NC with AP is required to keep the A stopped and for the betrayed spouse to have any peace of mind at all. your wife's refusal to quit her job is a very bad sign.

but unless she quits her job, which she said she will not do, that's not entirely possible. So I'm not sure what to do there.

She has no clue what damage she is doing to the marriage.

Have you told her parents about this. Sometimes it takes shock to get them to realize. On the other hand, extreme embarrassment could push her further away in this case.

I find it very unlikely they only kissed.

I guess you need to come right out and ask your wife if she is gay and then proceed from there. Because the truth is, if this OW did not have a GF your wife would still be there, maybe living with her by now.

You should talk to a lawyer on Monday, because this is not going well and your wife is not about to do anything to save the marriage.

A lot of good advice here. One more thing that I didn't see mentioned and if it was apologies.

Why not download a program off the internet for her phone's make and model and retrieve the deleted texts if you want to learn more of the truth. Possibly plant a VAR (voice activated recorder) in her car or other place where she would talk in private. Sucks to have to snoop around but really she put you in a place where you kinda have to do that since she has TT'd (trickle truth) you twice. Your definitely not getting the full story from your WW or her AP.

Goes without saying that she has to quite her job. But she wont which means she is choosing many other things first over you. If she was remorseful, she would do anything to make it up to you including NC (no contact) which is an absolute mandatory step for recovery. You both should read the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. NC is a must and the book also explains a lot about boundaries.

Also, as noted above, look into an attorney. You will feel better for doing so. You need to learn the laws of your state regarding S&D finances, custody, and what you can expect if this thing goes south in a hurry. Educate yourself so that you can make informed decisions later.

You should get tested for STDs. No really. You know she already had a PA as far as kissing which can spread HPV and Herpes. Get tested. This is a mandatory step for your health.

Here are some threads to get you started. You can find most of the abbreviations here in the upper left corner in the Healing Library. Please check that section out.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/library.asp

Read up on the 180 so that you can decide if you want to use it later. It is designed for you to detach and can be found under BS FAQ here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

And more 180 info under the target thread here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785

I would also recommend reading these target threads in the Just Found Out forum:

Tactical Primer

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

Great Posts for Newbies to Read

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=361740

Boundaries and Consequences 101 for all new BS

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=385631

Before You Say Reconcile...

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

For the newly betrayed

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=535178

For the foggy, unremorseful, cake eaters:

20/20 Hindsight: What I should have done when I J F O

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=446349

Codependency in the Marriage: A BS’s common mistake

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=408443

Please read these as well as prep for any sort of upcoming confrontation that you may have with your WS:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/no_contact.asp

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/boundaries.asp

Recovery Plan:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961

Calling all BSs...:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=514479

Choosing an IC/MC:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=544948

Sorry you are here cincinnatikid. You have come to the right place. Keep reading. Keep posting. We are here for you.

yop

Wait, you can retrieve deleted texts from a phone? Does anyone have any additional info on this?

I have a strong feeling that this may put the nail in the coffin so to speak. I really doubt that was the first time that kind of conversation happened.

I have not done it personally but a few other members here have. You need to search out on the internet to do it. Make and model and all that. Don't let your WW know that you are doing it. Doesn't always work perfectly but often enough of the evidence was retrieved for confirmation.

eta - search for restoring facebook too is she uses that.

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 11:16 AM, February 14th (Saturday)]

I have not told anyone because I do not want to hurt her if she is in fact telling the truth. And I think my biggest fear is putting my children through this and then trying to have a shared parenting relationship only. I know that I do not trust her and I do not respect her anymore at the very minimum.

She went out last night after work "for a little bit" to see a friend from work that came in from Arizona or something. PROMISED that she would be home by 1230, she got off work at 1115, and we live 20 minutes away from her work. Low and behold, 145 rolls around and I text her and say "and you wonder why I don't believe a word you say."

It's Valentine's Day and im just too upset to even do anything to keep the peace. I'm sure it'll turn back to me like it always does.

OK, first you need to deal with you. Search for "No More Mr. Nice Guy pdf" and read that, fast.

She abandoned a baby young enough to need formula in the middle of the night. It is affecting your ability to keep your job.

If she's telling you to your face that she would be with her if not for her girlfriend, what in the world is left to save?

Recover the text messages if you like, but this is not a court of law. You have enough disrespect to end this now.

What time did she get home finally?

And really, what is a mother of two small children doing out with friends until sunrise, that is a huge problem in itself...besides having an affair.

And of course you have no idea where she was last night.

Maybe it is time you start knowing. Put a GPS tracker in her car or if her phone works that way, turn on the GPS location finder in her phone.

Put a voice activated recorder (VAR) in her car.

Start knowing what is going on instead of wondering all the time.

But at this time, she has checked out of the marriage and you need to do something whether it is having a discussion with her parents and or a lawyer. She doesnt seem to care about being embarrassed anymore.

She may argue about it, but she WILL respect you if you stand up to yourself. I guarantee it.

You are value and important, I'm not saying that you both shouldn't share give and take, but it should NOT be a one-street way, all you giving and all her taking.

VOICE-ACTIVATED RECORDER, all her midnights will give you all the truth you need.