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As a recovered SA, my sponsor had told me that being selfless and giving is part of what we do on a daily basis for our spiritual life. When thoughts of selfishness or self arise, I look to see what I can do to help anyone.

Over the past weekend, I found myself wanting to be closer to my BW and looked her in the eyes and told her that I love her. I want to be physical with her and let her know that I desire her, but I feel that it is inappropriate because she had expressed that she does not want to be physical with me. Furthermore, our relationship is not on any solid footing. We are neither R or D right now.

My question is, do I keep my mouth shut or say something? Or do I wait to see where we are heading? I know that I want her to respond to me, but I guess I want to be able to be honest with her and for her to know that she really doesn't have to respond, but I just wanted her to know what I was thinking.

When thoughts of selfishness arise, I do what I can to help someone.

I'm paraphrasing , my phone isn't allowing me to copy parts of your list.

The next paragraph is stating what you want. With a blip about what your wife has requested as well as that your relationship is in hiatus, not R and not heading to D.

ask yourself which action is the more unselfish action you can choose?

To me, telling her your feelings is all about you and what you have to say, and want to do with her. Which she has expressed to you that she doesn't want to do . In my mind she told you her boundary and you telling her isn't respecting that boundary. JMHO.

K

I was about to respond by saying that being honest and open about your own feelings can never be wrong unless it is hurtful. Perhaps she needs to hear what you are feeling and wishes that you express it.

Then I read Kajem's response, and am now doubting my Point of view.

This is difficult stuff. But I learn here everyday.

So my response now is that I really don't know, but I think it is good that we are all searching.

What is it about being physical with her that you are looking for?

What are you expecting to get from it?

What is the feeling or emotion you are looking for?

I am all for acknowledging feelings and vocalizing it. But it seems that this might be a surface feeling. Look deeper and you may be looking for something that you can achieve without pushing her boundaries.

Dr. J

Thanks folks. I do not want to make anything about me Nd upon further reflection, it is inappropriate to push her boundaries.

I want her to know that I am sorry for destroying her sense of security and that I want to express through actions that I am here for the long run and that I will do whatever it takes to keep her safe. I want to hold her and look her in the eyes and tell her that I love her.

I make it a point to look at her in the eyes now when we talk (except when I am driving or we are engaged with our son) and I have told her that I love her on many occasions. I also tel her that I do not expect her to reply, but that I wanted to express what I am feeling. More than anything, I want to put myself out there and accept rejection if that is what she chooses to do.

It's hard. I don't want to make it about me, but it becomes what I am feeling. I will meditate on this some more, but I want to thank all of you who have replied. Keep'me coming, thanks!

I want her to know that I am sorry for destroying her sense of security and that I want to express through actions that I am here for the long run and that I will do whatever it takes to keep her safe. I want to hold her and look her in the eyes and tell her that I love her.

What actions are you actually doing to show her that you will do whatever it takes to keep her safe? You do not have to answer here, but it's good for you to look at your actions toward your wife as objectively as possible. If you were watching a video of you and your wife without sound, would you be able to tell that the husband cherished and was protective of his wife? If not, what would his actions look like?

As a BS, (my xh and xso left for ows, so take this from where it comes) If my WW did what you want to do - I would feel pressure to be vulnerable with my WW. Vulnerability needs trust, if she doesn't completely trust you yet - she shouldn't have to worry about how you feel. She's still working thru her feelings and your prior actions. She can't heal on your schedule. It doesn't work that way.

K

Hi Kajem,

If one was on the outside looking in, without the sound, I think for the most part they would see a couple who are respectful towards one another. Most people who interact with us, with the exception of our respective family members who know about my hurtful deceptions and actions, have often commented favorably about us and our marriage.

I've done a lot of reading and have been bringing programs like Retrouvaille and the Third Option to my BW's attention and asking if she would be interested in attending these programs together. I've asked questions, done research, and tried to fill in the blanks regarding any questions about the aforementioned programs. I've done a complete disclosure and have looked for a polygraph examiner to verify the disclosure (we recently moved to a different state), I check in with her every night, I have accountability software on my phone and computer, she has all of my passwords and is free to use any of my devices, I generally leave my phone in the open with the ringer all the way up and show her messages that come in if she is next to me, I carry a VAR everywhere I go when I am not with her (done this for a year and am closing in on 1 terabyte of data), when I sense she is any discomfort I sit and talk to her and help her walk through whatever is bothering her.

When she asks about my recovery work, I tell her what I am up to. I attend a minimum of 2 meetings a week, I keep in contact with my sponsor on an almost daily basis, I read, I make dozens of calls a week, I send emails and texts to folks in recovery, I've written out, made, or am in the process of making the 50+ amends that my sponsor and I discussed, my old home group and I are in the process of making a podcast for recovery, I've been trying to gain moments and start my own fellowship in my new city, and I pray daily and meditate as often as I can for the selfish crap to be removed so that I can be of service to others.

Those are things that I can list off the top of my head. I am not perfect by any means and I know that I caused a lot of damage and that I might not get a chance to repair it all or make amends for all of it. I told my wife that no matter what I will work hard and be here and take care of her.

I can only imagine the pain my BW is undergoing and the trauma that I inflicted on her. I appreciate the responses here. If i came across as entitled, that was not my intention and I apologize. I recognize that my actions are often selfish and I am here to learn from any and all inputs and response that the SI community has to offer so that I can be the best husband and father that I can be.

BS here.

what you're wanting to do...from her perspective it could seem a lot like love bombing.

You know, where the love bomber makes their feelings of love abundantly clear, which then requires a response from the other person, and obviously it's clear that the love bomber wants a favourable/reciprocal response. It's hard to not respond that way even when someone is emotionally healthy, it's so much harder when someone is emotionally vulnerable.

She would be likely to feel a LOT of emotional pressure to respond in the way you want...and ultimately that would be harmful for your M.

Well, it all sounds good. Very good from the outside looking in.

But you know how we spouses are. Sceptical and gunshy. We question everything and doubt it all.

Is it hopeless? No. But it takes TIME. LOTS of it. And consistent, reliable data. I have to tell you that each time my SAFWH reacts defensively (because he IS human and IS NOT perfect) I pull back from any small advances in comfort I may have made. That may be overreacting, and terribly unfair to him, but it is likely a result of years and years of gaslighting and TT and my reaction to trauma.

Time. Consistency. DD is younger and more resilient than I. Keep up the good work.

what you're wanting to do...from her perspective it could seem a lot like love bombing.

You know, where the love bomber makes their feelings of love abundantly clear, which then requires a response from the other person, and obviously it's clear that the love bomber wants a favourable/reciprocal response. It's hard to not respond that way even when someone is emotionally healthy, it's so much harder when someone is emotionally vulnerable.

She would be likely to feel a LOT of emotional pressure to respond in the way you want...and ultimately that would be harmful for your M.

I get what you are saying, but as I noted, I'm not looking for a response. I haven't shared what I felt about her in any details in years and I was asking if it was appropriate. I've told my BW that I do not want her to respond when I tell her that I love her or show affection if she does not feel comfortable or want to. I tell her that I just want her to know what I was thinking.

Hi sK,

I absolutely understand how my (our) actions have devastated my (our) relationships; especially with my (our) spouse(s).

I am in it for the long run and taking it slowly. If it takes a life time to make right even a small minutia of harms, I am here.

BS here, I suggest that you keep telling her what you need. To hold it in will only give you the seed of resentment.

You didn't come across as entitled. You came across as wanting/needing to show your BW your feelings. It came across as you wanting to show your BW your feelings, I came away thinking your feelings were more important than hers.

I can now see I had the wrong impression.

How about you ask your wife if she is ready for such demonstrations of your love? Then you can start with small loving ways and work up to as grand a gesture as she feels comfortable with. I caution you to take it slow. To move quickly will most likely feel like love bombing. Do with no expectations. Easy to say, very hard to do.

K

Hi all,

I am channeling Yoda and really repeating the mantra, "There is no try. Do."

I can see how I came across in my post that my feelings are more important than my BW's. I am selfish and entitled and changing that behavior has been a work in progress

BW mentioned to me last night that she put herself out there emotionally when she agreed to attend a program called The Third Option. Being a jackass, I thought in my head great! And instead of acknowledging what a leap of faith it was for her to even get invested in something like that with me, I said let's talk about it after the holiday (7/4) during our weekly meeting.

I apologized for my selfishness and how I have hurt her and that there was no excuse for my behavior. I told her I understand why she was hurt and iterated that if I was in her position, I would feel the same way. There were many things said, but I didn't retreat and blow off her concerns.

I have more work to do. I'm not going to give up and stop digging and working. I am reminded that I have put my feelings and wants first for a long time and that her feelings of safety and the need for the world to not drop from underneath her is paramount to anything I am concerned with.