SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I swear if the affair doesn't kill me this list might.

1. The fact I wasn't handsome and that she was never into me sexually. She let me in on this one this morning. See here for details: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=567119. Cliff notes is that she married me in spite of not being attracted to me. She apparently found the AP much more handsome than me.

2. The AP had an erection when they started to fool around. This one is pretty fucking choice. Here is the story on this one. For the first few years of our marriage I was Johnny on the spot. Then she increasingly and increasingly rejected my sexual advances. She had a sexual dysfunction that made her almost unable to have an orgasm. She had very little interest in sex. After years of this, I admit it, when we would start to fool around, I didn't have an erection right away. My mind was thinking about how I could no longer give her oral sex, kiss her breasts, touch her body, or give her an orgasm. I was thinking about the fact that she really wasn't that into it. I think it is pretty fucking reasonable that I didn't have an erection at this point. It is worth noting that I did eventually get and maintain an erection 95% of the time we had sex. Most tellingly, since Dday her sexual dysfunction has almost entirely resolved and she is again turned on by me. I am again like a steel pipe as soon as we start to fool around. So it is clear that it was her sexual dysfunction, not any problem with me, that caused me not to have an erection right away. So to hear something like, "well, AP had an erection when we started to fool around and you didn't" is just fucking brutal. (More info, not sure if it is relevant: She has said that she can count on one hand the number of orgasms she had with the sexual partners she had prior to our marriage. She did not have an orgasm with the AP (confirmed via poly). Now I give her oral sex and she weeps and practically passes out from the orgasm. So, again, how am I failing sexually?)

3. The AP had bigger muscles in his chest and arms. Well, I guess I can't argue with this one. I haven't seen a picture of him with his shirt off, but I'll take her word for it. If this is that important to her then there is not much I can about this one.

4. I demanded that we go to MC. This one did, in fact, happen. I knew we had problems in our sex life. I knew that the root of the problem was the sexual dysfunction I described above. I figured that was the best chance to fix our sex life. She now says that she felt overwhelmed by therapy (in spite of the fact that 9 months in we still hadn't talked about sex).

5. She was bored. I guess this is true. Not sure it is a great reason to have an affair.

6. I didn't give her enough responsibilities in running the household. She said that she liked having control of something (the A) for the first time.

7. She was turned on by the fact that AP spoke a different language and she liked to share this with him. To make this one work I think you have to ignore the fact that one of the things that initially made us interested in each other is the fact that we each spoke the same foreign language (a different one than AP spoke).

8. She took me for granted. She said she thought I would never find out, and even if she did allow herself to consider this, she figured I would be hurt but that I would forgive her. She figured it was only sex, and not even that much of it, and that she wasn't in love, and that it wasn't taking anything away from our marriage. To be fair, she says this is wrong, but that that is the way she felt.

9. She was selfish and felt entitled to the affair after all the hard work she had done in the marriage. I'm not going to disagree with this one. I'll just let it sit right there. Again, to be fair, she says this is wrong, but that that is the way she felt.

In summary, she was with someone she wasn't attracted to, who she found to be a bit of a pain in the ass, and who only spoke one foreign language. Then a real man, with muscles and an erection came along. And that is why she had an affair.

really? dude, why don't you just show her the door? I mean, really, is she all that?

I saw your other thread about how you were both 6's or 7's. Honestly, ugly folks. Personally I'm a 9.5.

Ha! I'm just kidding. a little gallows humor. Sorry if it hit the wrong way.

But what I'm not kidding about is she seems pathetic. I mean, she now says you're unattractive? You're only a 6? But some young student is an 8? Whoop de fuckin do! But apparently that's good enough for her to spread her legs. What happens when she finds another handsome student who wants her?

You're seriously going to put up with that? I don't think I could.

I"m really sorry you're putting up with this. I am. But I'm confident you'll figure out what to do.

Good luck friend.

[This message edited by mike7 at 8:04 PM, August 8th (Saturday)]

Chif, all I have to say is this is ridiculous. I'm a BS and I married a man that many would say was not be equal in the looks department BUT it was his charm, character, hard working attitude and the ability to make me smile that created the attraction. Physical beauty fades over time but character is indefinite.

I've been wooed by better and more successful men and never cheated, I didn't want to lose my husband and the marriage.

I've heard from my WH that I didn't respect him, put him down and was just a lousy all around wife. Okay, ditto for him but he's not looking down the barrel of 13 men I've either had sex with or oral now is he.

He made the choice to play as many women as he could so he could feel good about himself, it wasn't my job to fix his FOO issues.

The other day during discussion he actually called me a whore! ME...the dedicated mother and very attractive women WHo never touched another man outside our marriage.

Now I feel stupid for turning down the advances and the chance to have my ego stroked.

She can sit there and make a list of reasons why she did what she did, putting the blame partially on you all she wants. But at the end of the day, no marriage is perfect, no person is perfect, and she is unreasonable to expect perfection from you, then cheat when she doesn't get it.

She cheated because she is weak and she wanted to, and thought she could get away with it. Period. It had nothing to do with you.

I'm so sorry. Really, though, I'm a girl and her list is crap! You deserve better. She's just making selfish excuses. If she comes around, great. However, she's got a ton of growing up to do. If not, there is someone out there that would appreciate you if you ended up D and give yourself time to heal.

Boy, she is really doing a number on your self-esteem with her ridiculous blame-shifting. And how heartless she is. You have to wonder about a person that would try to take you down in such a way so she can justify her behavior.

When she comes to you and says, I have no excuse for what I did, other than I am a broken human being that needs help, only then I would listen.

And maybe not even then.

You are going off the rails, c. What's up with you? This list is wacky, wacky, wacky. I can't believe a mature 40s woman would come up with such drivel. And I have seen some thoughtful posts by you, but it really is beneath you even listening to this drivel.

I have my own list of reasons why your wife had an affair:

1. Other man liked her and she hasn't had too many guys show her any interest, so she really liked this guy.

2. This is not a reason of why, just a refutation, this dude was fugly, but he sure was more handsome than any other guy who ever paid her any attention. A "7," my ass. I bet she's a "5."

3. This is another not reason, the other guy only got a hard-on AFTER your wife was already messing around so, no, that was NOT a reason she cheated, that was the RESULT of her cheating. How hard up is she if a guy getting a hard-on is "attractive" to her?

4. She was selfish.

5. She didn't think she'd get caught.

6. She didn't think if she did get caught, that you wouldn't drop her like a bad penny. The more I listen to her drivel, the more I'm thinking you should kick her to the curb.

7. She has no maturity. Another poster pegged her maturity level at Grade 8. I personally put her at Grade 6. I know, I have one, my 11-year-old is a bit more mature than your wife.

8. Another non-reason. Dude, there is always a guy who has a bigger dick and larger arms. At this rate, she may have to bang the local college football team. This was a reason for her? Is she fucking kidding?

9. Again not a reason, a question for you - why are you humoring her?

10. She took you for granted. She STILL is.

11. She is either clueless or hateful. Take your pick.

12. About half of her reasons could be ANY GUY. All she did was found a guy who speaks one other language. All she has to do is wear a short skirt and a low-cut blouse and go by the local college by the language department, watch the guys in that department, then find one with decent arms, and I'm sure she will be in hog heaven.

13. Lucky 13. I respect you, c. You're a good, thoughtful, sincere guy. Drop her like a hot potato. You deserve better than something like her.

Very elequently put by Wk55

He pretty much said it all.

Holy Crap! No offense but your wife is a brutal bitch. In 17 years I have had many, many guys give me some lame brain come ons most better looking than my CH? cheating husband. (Sorry don't know the lingo yet.) I am younger and have been asked numerous times why I am with him I have to agree with Crazytrain, it never was about looks and it takes a shallow and heartless person to put that on you.

Holy Christ my CH is an SOB and I wouldn't tell him the crap she spewing at you.

I cannot rate myself wouldn't even try but even if a 10 came on to me that would never have been a reason. (unless younger Sam Elliot) then all bets are off.

She took me for granted. She said she thought I would never find out, and even if she did allow herself to consider this, she figured I would be hurt but that I would forgive her.

Read that a few times. She logically decided that her fun was worth hurting you. And she was right, no divorce. I’ve heard the term “entitled princess” before but damn. I would get a divorce because I couldn’t trust myself to be in the same room as her. At least stop giving her oral sex.

I swear if the affair doesn't kill me this list might.

1. The fact I wasn't handsome and that she was never into me sexually.

2. The AP had an erection when they started to fool around.

3. The AP had bigger muscles in his chest and arms.

4. I demanded that we go to MC.

5. She was bored.

6. I didn't give her enough responsibilities in running the household.

7. She was turned on by the fact that AP spoke a different language and she liked to share this with him.

8. She took me for granted.

9. She was selfish and felt entitled to the affair after all the hard work she had done in the marriage.

In summary, she was with someone she wasn't attracted to, who she found to be a bit of a pain in the ass, and who only spoke one foreign language. Then a real man, with muscles and an erection came along. And that is why she had an affair.

I was talking with a woman I know who once stole a car. I asked her why. This was the list of reasons:

1. The fact that she never really was into her own car, the car was reliable, but she never liked the way it looked.

2. The stolen car drove really well as she started to drive on her getaway.

3. The stolen car was bigger and shinier and sleeker than the car she owned.

4. Her own car was not riding right and would need to bring it to a repair.

5. She was bored with her old car.

6. She didn't have to drive enough in her old car.

7. She really liked the stolen car because it had a lot more features than her old car.

8. She took for granted how good and reliable her own car had been.

9. She was selfish and felt entitled to stealing the car because of all the hard work she had done repairing her own car.

I scratched my head. That was her reason for stealing the car? Nothing about her lack of character? There always will be a better, slicker, sexier new car around, would she just be stealing another car every time?

[This message edited by wk55hn at 8:17 AM, August 9th (Sunday)]

With a bullshit list like that I'd be running to the nearest attorney to file for D.

9. She was selfish and felt entitled

This is it. Nothing more to it, and no need to look any further. The rest is simply window dressing.

What are you going to do about it?

What is SHE going to do about it?

Wow, is she easy or what

You should make your own list.

She did it cause she had the opportunity.

And this crap about grading looks on a scale talk about superficial.

AP had an erection when we started to fool around and you didn't

The truth is, you also had an erection when you and her STARTED to fool around. It took the "backstory" to make you not have one.

So, again, how am I failing sexually?

I can't see any "failure" here.

This poster has it exactly right:

She logically decided that her fun was worth hurting you.

And, her "list", shows me she has logically decided that making herself feel less guilty is also worth hurting you.

I also got a "list" - except it wasn't his chest muscles that were "bigger" than mine.

if the affair doesn't kill me this list might.

In the end, it really wasn't her affairs themselves which caused me to end the marriage. It was the "list".

If this is what she's coming up with, then STOP ENGAGING WITH HER. Truly---no more discussion about her infidelity until she gets real.

Seriously, dude---until she sees that you're not interested until she finds remorse and empathy, you're not going to get any better.

Find the 180 in the FAQs for BSs in the Healing Library (yellow box in the upper left corner). STOP ENGAGING with her about this. Give yourself freedom from her toxic spew so that you can gain some perspective.

[This message edited by solus sto at 12:44 PM, August 9th (Sunday)]

Just want to add to the litany of responses and say I agree this list is ridiculous.

Your WW is so mean. Is this her exit or something?? She doesn't sound like she wants to even try to fix things.

So sorry :( I would have died if my WH gave me a list similar to this. She is kicking you while you're down.

Also, I'm curious about this so-called dysfunction she supposedly had sexually. How did she make things happen with OM?? How is it that she seems able to have sex just fine now that the A has been exposed??

Thanks again for the thoughts, comments and insight. Definitely helpful.

I also got a "list" - except it wasn't his chest muscles that were "bigger" than mine

Ha ha. For me, a poly and threat of poly got out a lot of info. AP's was shorter and thicker. I'm a dipshit for caring and asking, but I did. And, like one of the responses said, there is always someone who is more handsome, bigger muscles, bigger dick, etc. If WS cares deeply about that, the M is fucked no matter what.

Is this her exit or something?? She doesn't sound like she wants to even try to fix things.

Nah, that's what makes this so unbelievably fucked up. She is desperate for R. She is fully NC. She is going to IC and MC as much as possible (fucking therapists seem to take every other fucking week off). She reads books and follows them assiduously. Her actions (not words, obviously) towards me since Dday have been very positive. She tries to show me that she is safe with her behavior. She has prostrated her self on the ground to me and begged for forgiveness and asked what she can do to help me and us heal. I've got to get back to work, but take my word for it, she wants R. See (http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=566696) for a few more details on her commitment to R.

That's what makes this list so fucking hurtful and painful. On a significant level she accepts responsibility for the affair. She has never--as I've seen so many WS's do on the board--started off by wholesale blaming me for the affair. She has never wholesale justified the affair. So why does she cling to these hurtful, false reasons as an explanation for the affair?

Also, I'm curious about this so-called dysfunction she supposedly had sexually. How did she make things happen with OM?? How is it that she seems able to have sex just fine now that the A has been exposed?

Yeah, this is also something super fucked. I doubted the story immediately and immensely. I used the poly to confirm graphic details of the affair and her sexual enjoyment (Cliff Notes: sex 4 times, definitely excited and turned on by AP but pretty middling sex in the end. No orgasm.) Our first sex/HB after Dday the sexual dysfunction resolved. And I mean resolved!! It is about 80-90% gone now. I don't have an explanation as to why. And although I'm an absurdly analytical person and beat everything to death with analysis, I can say with confidence that I don't need to find out. I can't stop people on this board from chiming in, but I can ask you not to on this particular thing. My head is so full of shit right now that I really don't need to pollute one of the few good things in my life (besides my children).

[This message edited by chifrudo at 4:19 PM, August 9th (Sunday)]

I can't stop people on this board from chiming in, but I can ask you not to.

You got it, buddy. I totally understand where you're coming from. I was also inundated and overwhelmed with all kinds of scenarios/possibilities by well-meaning members of SI when I first posted. I was feeling very exposed and almost harassed at times. Another poster has mentioned the best strategy is to take what you think will help you and leave the rest.

There is a ton of great information here and your gut will probably guide you in the right direction to what you need to heal/R/whatever you decide to do.

Stay strong!