SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is just a continuation of my prior thread: "I Don't Have Any Idea What To Do" which can be found at the following URL if you're bored or have insomnia.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=566988

Thanks again to all who have posted with your advice, guidance, support, encouragment, and yes, for your deserved and necessary 2x4's. Much apperciated.

OK… Might sound like hard thoughts but bear with me…

Your reluctance for the BBQ:

Could that be a desire to punish your wife and/or to be a victim?

Are you afraid that having or attending the BBQ would send some sort of message that you have forgiven her and thereby the affair?

Is it in some way a method to keep some perceived moral upper hand?

Look – IMHO (well… not so H really…) – the present situation isn’t sustainable. It’s understandable, it’s OK for a very short period of time. But it isn’t SUSTAINABLE. At the moment you are a quasi-family. You took the separation to detach, get your thoughts together and to decide on the future. Yet you go to family events as if nothing is going on. It’s tough for you, your wife BUT MOST OF ALL for the kids. If you want a separation then BE SEPARATED! Stay away from her. Don’t create “we are all a happy family – but not” situations. Kids will get a clearer picture and won’t have to take part in acting everything’s fine but yet...

If that’s hard… Well… Then don’t have a 100% separation… There could be some mid-way between being together and being totally separated. But define it and work at some goal. Head for some destination.

Think deep and hard: Infidelity is a bitch because we can’t really “punish” someone. It’s not like we can sentence our spouse to 20 years and let them off after 12 for good behavior. I wish we could make them write “sorry” a million times on the blackboard. But fact is we can’t… If we divorce then it shouldn’t be as revenge or punishment, but rather because WE don’t want to be married to that person. Same with reconciliation: If we reconcile it’s not because we accept, forgive or condone the infidelity but simply because we WANT to remain married.

Your fears about emasculation, loss of power, ridicule… all that… Totally get it. Really valid fears and yet I think your “sensible” brain realizes they aren’t valid. Just like she cheated despite you then her decision to cheat doesn’t define you.

One really wild, out-there idea:

Why don’t YOU host the BBQ?

With or without your wife. (Preferably with…)

Send the message to everyone “Hey – they might kick Mr. W to the ground but he’s still standing and here you are all of you – eating his food, drinking his booze, using his house… - and showing him the respect he deserves”

Think deep and hard: Infidelity is a bitch because we can’t really “punish” someone.

Yup.

But you can offer them a path to earn their way back to your side.

if you don't feel like going to a barbecue, then don't. It doesn't matter what anybody here thinks.

i don't know why you don't want to go, but what if you don't think you can handle it? Do you want to have a barbecue with your family and then burst into tears? Or get into a loud discussion with your wife because you trigger?

get it? It's up to you. If you want to go, then don't worry about whether it sends this message or that message, just go. If you don't want to, for whatever reason, then don't. Don't worry about the message there either.

Your kids will benefit the most when they spend time with you when you feel up to it.

I think the fudge did not go well. the fact that she did not look at you is a bad sign. I think it is a sign of guilt. You mentioned that she brought up the subject of divorce at least 3 times. It seems that she is accepting that you will divorce her and will act accordingly. She wanted to talk to you this weekend I think you should. You need to listed what is on her mind and figure out what you want to do. I hope I am wrong.

I respectfully disagree, John.

Wallup has taken some time to accomlpish a few things

- abstract himself from the problem to enable him to gain ability to perform non-emotional analysis

- Get comfortable with life either divorced or reconciled

and...

- Most importantly, get back to roots and define himself through himself, so that he can blueprint his own recovery.

This seperation is doing the same thing for his wife. The absense is making her look inside of herself and discover who she is. She doesn't like the person that she is finding, or worse accepts who that person is..

Unfortunately for her, this is her own journey to make at this time. There was a time when she was a part of a team that solved this together, but then she decided to join another team. Her former teammate needs to prepare himself to play the game again before he can join that team or any team, and that's on her. Consequences are a bitch, life is tough, bla bla bla

Wal, what's your opinion of your IC? You satisfied?

Eric, I am not trying to take anything away from what Wallop has done. I evaluate things from different perspectives. He needs to consider the possibility that things are not as they seem on the surface. I do not want speculate what goes thru his wifes mind, that would be bad. I just want to point out a different angle. I wish him the best of luck in whatever he chooses to do.

I don't know if I'm up for this. To have everyone there and my wife and I not really hanging out together, or pretending to, and everyone not talking about the one thing everyone is thinking about? Sounds like torture. But the kids look forward to these things and school is starting soon. Any thoughts?

Boy, that's a tough one. It depends on who will be there and how much of "friends of the marriage" they are.

In your vows when you were married, did your wedding party and guests participate? Your brother? Just by being there, they committed to the success of your marriage same as you and your wife did. This is their time to play their role. My family played a tremendous role in helping to repair our marriage, and they never knew exactly what happened. Just that something had happened. They did pick sides. They chose the marriage.

You are meeting with your IC and talking about feelings, feelings, feelings, but don't underestimate the ability of actions to influence feelings. The small graces. Your family graciously welcoming your wife. A bag of fudge.

Sending positive vibes, bro.

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 12:56 PM, September 4th (Friday)]

Could that be a desire to punish your wife and/or to be a victim?

Are you afraid that having or attending the BBQ would send some sort of message that you have forgiven her and thereby the affair?

Is it in some way a method to keep some perceived moral upper hand?

Bigger - No...this is not it. I'm really trying to be honest with myself here and I really don't think this is where I am coming from. Punish? Well, there are consequences. Our lives will be different as a result of her affair, I get that and so should she, but I'm not looking to inflict anything on her. Portray myself as the victim? Well, I am...but I don't really do the whole "woe is me, let me bask in the sympathetic comments from concerned folks while I get my ego stroked" kind of thing.

It's more of Mike7's post:

i don't know why you don't want to go, but what if you don't think you can handle it? Do you want to have a barbecue with your family and then burst into tears? Or get into a loud discussion with your wife because you trigger?

I don't know how I can pretend and everyone will pretend cause no one will discuss it in public, but everyone will be thinking it. And what if something happens and I do trigger, or we argue in front of the kids and everyone else? It's more the above than anything else.

Regarding separation - I agree what I'm doing is not sustainable. It's not meant to be. It's meant for me to be able to deal with her and our situation in a healthy manner. I'm trying to find myself a bit and I'm hoping that she's maximizing the time to do the same. By the time we discuss things next weekend, she'll have had 7 IC sessions since I moved to my brother's house. I'm hoping they will have benefited her greatly. And I'm hoping she'll have a better understanding of what the potential consequences of her affair could be.

Really, the only reason I'm considering the BBQ is for the kids. I think I'd prefer not to though for the above reasons.

John321 - I agree with Eric. About divorce, I don't know what she's thinking or what she wants to talk about, but I'm really not ready to do so. She didn't object to my sticking to our agreed upon 2 weeks, and I'm glad that she says she wants to talk to me. I view that as a positive.

HouseofPlane - Excellent!

don't underestimate the ability of actions to influence feelings. The small graces. Your family graciously welcoming your wife. A bag of fudge.

Thanks. I agree. And I think that would be really beneficial for her. She is the party that did the "bad" thing. She knows this. I dont know what she's thinking other than that she's very down on herself. To have the family be there to show her they accept her, despite what she did, I think would be very good for her.

Thank you.

One really wild, out-there idea:

Why don’t YOU host the BBQ?

With or without your wife. (Preferably with…)

Send the message to everyone “Hey – they might kick Mr. W to the ground but he’s still standing and here you are all of you – eating his food, drinking his booze, using his house… - and showing him the respect he deserves”

I have to say that while I can admire the idea, that'd take more chutzpah than I had even a year after D-Day.

I think would be very good for her.

I didn't mention this before, I just brought up the "let the kids play." But this is a thought that was in the back of my mind. You mentioned a day or two she spent with her sister early on. Aside from that it doesn't sound like she's much time away from herself.

One thing stuck out.

I showed her the kind of person I am and the contrast with how she’s likely feeling about herself is very stark.

Yup.

You have stated R is your goal. IMO, she is still following the remorseful WS playbook to the letter. Right up to and including her inability to look at you. She is giving you the space you need without pushing you, in spite of her desires. A Reagan quote comes to mind.

The BBQ. Yep, awkward. I'd go anyway. Who cares who knows? Some will support, some won't. Great way to solidify your knowledge of who has your back. That aside, don't forget, NONE of this was your fault. Her heinous actions shouldn't detract from life events you enjoy. Start taking them back.

Regardless of your choice, we've still got your back.

Maybe you should really consider going.

Your kids really like it and that's what should matter most. Not going might be looked at as punishing them unnecessarily. It's just a thought.

To have the family be there to show her they accept her, despite what she did, I think would be very good for her.

And you too.

I agree with houseofplane. That BBQ could be beneficial to your wife and not just the kids. My ex WW felt she could never go back to being part of the family bc she did too much damage.

Her getting dressed up for you when you came home (and she did get dolled up for you), her reaction to getting fudge from you, and asking to talk to you are all signs that she still loves you and wants the marriage in my opinion.

Will keep you in thoughts and prayers especially for when you both talk. Keep your chin up. So many on here are sending you positive vibes!

In the scope of your and families lives, this isn't even a small pimple on your ass. It is inconsequential. People can't attend for a family BBQ for any number of reasons. Don't sweat the small stuff. There will be plenty of other family get-togethers. Your family and extended family will be OK either way. You won't have a major breakdown at a family BBQ.

I just wanted to comment quickly on this idea of "what will everyone think?"

I asked myself that, too, when first starting to reconcile with my wife. "Oh no, everyone will be looking at us!" "Everyone will be whispering behind our backs."

As my 85 year old mother wisely said to me, "Why do you think people give a shit?"

It's true. People care - in the sense that they want you (and your wife) to be happy. That's about it. What happens between you and her, what's going on with your finances, whether or not your car is paid off... these are things that people just don't pay much attention to."

Think about this for a second... if your best friend, or brother, or a neighbor had this happen to them - would you sit at a barbecue thinking about it? I doubt it. You'd just spend your day having a good time and, if you saw him looking a bit down, you'd go over to them with a beer and invite him to play some horseshoes.

Oh - I do want to say one more thing.

In order to reconcile there will come a time when you're going to need to move together. You opened a door by bringing her home a gift. She knows that the door isn't locked shut. Try moving toward her - she may be more remorseful than you think. And... as Bigger suggested... you have to move yourself out of infidelity. It doesn't happen by staying static.

Maybe it's not time yet. But eventually you both need to make a move.

Of the things you've done the one which I've found particularly interesting is your quick conclusion that your wife's A was the result of something seriously broken inside her, and not of a desire to hurt you. It took me a much longer time to understand that some of the things my wife has done were the result of internal breakage - internal breakage which I had no idea was present - and were not done with the intent of causing harm to me or our relationship. It will be interesting to see how your view evolves as you learn more, but for now it appears to be the correct conclusion.

Assuming it is correct, it's fortunate that the OM turned out to be completely disgusting, but it's also concerning that a lot of your wife's reaction seems to be based more on what sort of person he was than on what she was doing with him. I wonder how things would have developed if the OM had been single and at least moderately honorable.

This is a pretty by-the-book affair.

In a few months he probably would have gotten the I Love You But I Don't Love You speech.

At least that is what Vegas would have at the top of the board