SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It's not just transparency that's missing.

He's not a candidate for R until he answers your questions honestly, stops lying, raises and resolves issues with you as they arise, and recognizes that something is very wrong in him for believing it's OK to cheat - which IMO means IC to help him change from cheater to good partner.

Don't sell yourself out for crumbs.

all positive is good...having said that, be sure you are not feeling better because you were starving for any kindness...not him changing...there is a difference.... this is very early on....there is much to learn....you can appreciate any turn around....but it is not concrete...yet....this should have been the norm....it should have been all along...you are hungry....

I remember being so distraught, that I would fight with my H, (after the A, ) and wish he would hold me at the same time....I needed comfort...and was willing to take it from the enemy at the time. It added to the confusion. I felt easy, and desperate and worse. I felt weak..and he continued with other women...

NeverAgain2013, I hear what you're saying about him not wanting to lose me or his family. What I can't for the life of me understand is why he would engage in behavior that would at the very least, pose a serious threat to that.

It doesn't make any sense to me. I can't see putting something that means so much to him at such risk. And if I mean so much to him how could he do this? How could he have been acting so mean to me while putting her on a pedestal?

But when I look back during the time he was being such a jerk to me, there were moments I would tell him if he was so unhappy we can go to a lawyers office and end it. That always stopped him dead in his tracks. He would end the argument. So yes, I agree with you completely.

And yes, I know that his being around more absolutely has to do with his time not being taken up by her. He used to be utterly exhausted coming home from work and immediately lay on the couch for a nap til dinner. Now he stays up. One of his co-workers played a gig with his band a few weeks ago. We went to see them and had a great time. At the end of the evening he and his friend and another man from work were talking about the mornings in the locker room. His friend was commenting on how my husband had recently been showing up for work earlier. I of course immediately knew it was because those 4:30, 5 am calls to her were not taking place. I could see on the phone records that he would talk to her right up to his shift starting and throughout his day right up until he came home. I don't believe his friend knew anything about the A, and was just making an observation.

I don't think he told anyone about it. He would be perceived as the bad guy, and know damn well no one would think I deserved this.

And if he fears losing me so much, why would he still continue to risk our marriage? I don't know. All of this makes me feel stupid because I just don't understand the thinking behind it. What he wants and what he does contradict each other. I can't wrap my head around it.

But yesterday when he showed up unexpectedly with those flowers, I found myself feeling normal for a while. I was briefly able to escape the non-stop pain I've been in. It felt so good to feel like me even if only for a short time.

I've read about false R and I am praying that's not what's happening. My inner voice is urging the same caution as everyone here. I remind myself daily that he is the same person who has betrayed me. A wolf in sheep's clothing so to speak. It's surreal to have to think about my husband that way. But this is the current reality. And as much as I love him, I hate him for making it that.

I say this very gently and with your understanding that I HAVE NO IDEA about the state of finances. And I also HAVE NO IDEA what is going through your WS's head or really much about you, him, your marriage etc.

I would consider that finances might have a bearing on his actions. I think a lot of WHs get caught up in affairs and never think about the financial implications of a divorce. Why? Because they're too smart to ever get caught. I know mine didn't. And he's extremely intelligent and we both have MBAs in finance. Financial planning and retirement planning is always a top concern for us. And he seemed to set all that aside during his A. He was rather shocked when the divorce attorneys calculated the child support number and potential maintenance figure that I could pursue. He also thought, and this is just so utterly ridiculous on his behalf, that I would forego some of our assets because i have a large inheritance in my name only. Ha ha ha ha ha think again. But my point is that the reality of splitting up might be settling in. So he's putting in a little effort but he's still not going to be transparent with you.

Personally, I would do a poly, talk to an attorney, and tell him your requirements or you file. You really are the one in control here.

Malibu I'm so glad your getting special treatment you absolutely deserve it. Even my bat crazy WH gave me all access to his electronics, email, FB which I changed his password to only one I knew promptly. He took the poly after a couple of months, didn't argue about the why's of what I needed to rebuild trust. Even a stupid sticker for the back of his truck that illustrated clearly he was married. I didn't even ask for the sticker that was on him.

My point is my WH isn't eligible for R anymore because of the continued gas- lighting....that saddens me seriously. He WAS willing to do the upright things from very early one EXCEPT one and that was being honest.

It's a shame he didn't get it, he was doing the sweet gestures, making plans for our future, you name it, flowers, date nights.

It's tough to say to my kids in the future your dad can't tell the truth to have saved your family. But it's true.

CrazyTrain, I appreciate you taking time to comment. I know you're going through a really rough time. I think about you and hope in the end you get the happiness you deserve.

That your WH put in all that effort and still acts the way he does makes no sense. But based on what you've posted, that sounds like a toxic situation you need to get away from.

Alaska77, yes I would also think finances have to be playing a part in his decision making. I'm not sure he realizes just how much the deck would be stacked in my favor in court. I've been to a lawyer for a consultation and I was surprised at what I would be entitled to. I'm not sure he has talked to an attorney. Comments he has made lead me to believe he hasn't. When referencing the future, or our finances he clearly isn't sounding like it would involve a divorce. I do understand the caution you are urging, and appreciate your concern.

Well yesterday WH took another baby step. As I was texting with one of my friends yesterday morning, another began texting me in rapid succession. She was on my WH FB and he had put up pictures of us, and acknowledged our 20th anniversary. It was a very public acknowledgement, and as you know me not being mentioned on his FB has been an issue. This was huge. My friends knew that and were as happy as I was. Though they're extremely pissed at him for what he's done, they do hope we can work things out. They love me and want to see me happy. It wasn't a wedding anniversary, and for him to do that for the anniversary of us being together was another unexpected surprise.

He had also planned on us going out to dinner, but my 12 year old with ADD had a behavioral meltdown so those plans were scrapped until later in the week.

I know there is much more to be done. I do realize that. If any of you knew my WH though you would know how positive a sign these actions are. I have my weekly therapy session tomorrow and I am curious what she will say about all of this.

He is setting your marriage on fire and burning it down. While the flames are roasting, he is trying to rearrange the furniture.

Last night during dinner, something triggered me. He saw it immediately. I got up from the table and went to another room. A few minutes later he came to me.

I told him that I can no longer hesitate to talk about things with him. We HAVE to have communication, he has to let me express my feelings, ask my questions, and if something triggers me, it must be discussed immediately.

He sat and listened. Patiently. The hostility that was present when this shitstorm first began months ago was gone. It's been replaced with understanding and empathy. I could see by the look on his face and the expression in his eyes that he gets it .That he knows this is going to take time. That he understands the pain is very real and very raw.

The shift that is occurring in the way we can talk, and the way we are around each other is palpable.

It doesn't erase what has been done. Nothing ever will. But that shift could lead us to a better place than we were in before he chose to do the unthinkable.

I don't see my willingness to give him another chance, to work with him on the things that went wrong, to change the status quo, to become "present" in all aspects as being weak or stupid. I see it as taking an opportunity for us to improve our marriage, our love and our life together.

Not everyone may agree with that stance, and that's ok. At this point it's where I'm at. And I have the love and support from family and friends in that decision.

There's progress being made. It will be slow and take time, but we seem to be on board together. And working together is a positive thing to me.

Malibu,

It took my wife a long, long, long time to finally open up. She refused to tell the truth for months as she gaslit, blameshifted, and continued on with her PA. She finally ended the affair and admitted a little, submitted to the first polygraph, failed it told me more and more, TT for another 6 months and then passed the second polygraph after another dump of TT.

Mainly she didn't want to face the horror of what she had done and she didn't want me to hurt any more. She didn't understand or didn't want to own up to the fact that hiding the truth was causing far more damage than not telling all.

Her raging on me during the affair, the self justification of her betrayal and cruelty, dissipated slowly at first and then with greater amounts. She opened up her phone, what remained of her purged emails, and admitted that he was a self centered, heartless persons intent on stealing her and getting her money on which to retire.

It took her a long time to let it go and admit to me her mistakes, her cruelty, and admit his nature and intent. She sees it now. Still, her pride is causing her, and us, to languish in limbo.

It's not 100%, it's not even 80%, but it is much better and is improving. Baby steps.

The important thing that you need to do is establish boundaries and conditions to reconcile. Keep pressing for those. You can do it in a firm and kind way. Overcommunicate your needs and your desires and give him time. Some, like my wife, absolutely will not turn on a dime. Some can and some can't or some won't. You know what you have to work with and you can punt him at any time. That itself is comforting! The decision is entirely up to you!

So as you see him give you attention, tell him you appreciate it. That is not giving in, that is being a kind and appreciative person. If that is a core principal of yours, there is no betrayal of yourself to honor your core principal of kindness and appreciation of others when the behavior is not manipulation. It is up to decide if he is buying you flowers for your happiness or for his happiness. Is he doing it for you or for him? Sometimes it is both and that is also ok.

Give him time if things are improving, but continue to insist on improvement until all your conditions are met and exceeded. If you give him kindness and attention to show appreciation, well then it will encourage him to improve more. It's entirely on his soul to take it and improve or to cake eat and regress. That is no reflection on you.

Good luck Malibu.

NP5

Notperfect5-- Great post. We each have our own journey and everyone's circumstances are different. Cookie Cutter approaches do not work.

Malibu -- You are right. You have been given an opportunity. So what are you guys going to do with it? That is the Million Dollar Question, isn't it?

I agree with Notperfect about following our own core values. My core values have more to do with my treatment of others than they do with the treatment of me by others.

I do believe that the two of you have a bunch of digging and uncovering to do. It sounds like you haven't gotten deep enough in conversations yet. But I will be the first to tell you to embrace the little changes and build on them, rather than knock the little things over and demand more. But that is my style. You have to figure out yours.

Off topic -- but love your user name. Maybe we can have a virtual drink together.

NP5, thank you for everything you said, and shared.

Those are my core principals, exactly. I don't believe it's manipulation, especially when he was able to sit and listen to me explain what triggered me, although he knew instantly, why it did and get it out in the open and off my chest.

They may be baby steps, but that's a far better sign to me than none at all.

Wish you well, and thanks again.

Not everyone may agree with that stance, and that's OK. At this point it's where I'm at. And I have the love and support from my family and friends about that decision

And that's all that matters. You do what YOU want. What feels right for you. What everyone else feels or thinks is irrelevant.

I'm hoping for the best for you both.

I don't see your willingness to give him the gift of R as weak. Quite the opposite. Trying to reconcile a marriage, after infidelity, is extremely hard.

His response to your trigger was a good one. It sounds like he might be starting to get it. Time will tell.

Of course, you should always behave in a way that is true to who you are.

And, yes, a wayward doesn't just change over night. If they go NC, answer your questions without getting mad and defensive,get tested for stds, if they are transparent,and empathetic, then you have a good start.

Has he given you full access to everything yet?

W3IRZ

I always am conscious of how I treat others as well. I treat people the way I expect to be treated. With kindness, decency and respect. Same as you.

The conversations are beginning to change and he is, I believe starting to get it, and he himself said that last night. He's aware this will take time and communication.

Thanks for the compliment about the user name LOL. And I wish we could ALL get together for that drink! I mean my God, if ever there were a group of people that understand each other, it's all of us here. Imagine how great that gathering would be!

JM72, once again I thank you for your kind words and understanding. I always feel better after reading your comments.

Confused615, no I don't have access to everything yet. Doesn't mean I don't intend on getting it. I may have to push for that, I may not. His walls are starting to come down. Giving me that access is imperative, and not something I will let go unanswered. As I've said though, how transparent is anything nowadays? But that openess is crucial. There can be no room for secrecy, it's a breeding ground for trouble. I'll get there.