SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

What about revenge? A part of me wants to go out and have an affair of my own.

I also want to beat the shit out of the other guy. I could do that without breaking a sweat.

I do not want to go to jail and makes things worse for myself though.

Grizzly, this sucks and you know it. Do you belong to a church? Do you have a pastor you can talk to? Mine was my best friend during our problems and gave me great advice. If you can, seek one out. I don't know what you believe, but whatever it is, I'm praying for all of you.

What about revenge? A part of me wants to go out and have an affair of my own.

No. you don't want to do that. You'll just be compromising your values/morals for nothing.

I also want to beat the shit out of the other guy. I could do that without breaking a sweat.

I do not want to go to jail and makes things worse for myself though.

We all want to do that, but it really won't solve anything. Your issue is with your wife. She made the vows to you, not the guy to you.

Ignore him like the dog crap on your shoe that he is.

And no point in going to jail. Your kid needs you.

Grizzly , listen to Worndown. He is giving solid advice . Wanting to exact revenge is a normal reaction in a situation like this . So is beating the crap out of the OM. I contemplated it , but in the end all it would do is bring you down to their level and muddy the waters .

Remember this , it was not the OM who broke your wedding vows , but your wife. She is the one where gets the blame for what happened to your family.

Stay focused and take care of yourself most of all.AThere is so many good articles in the "healing room" that hoped me . These will help educate yourself as to what is going on in your life. Continue to post here . There are a lot of great people here and we have all been where you are.

[This message edited by 1survivor at 9:44 AM, October 26th (Wednesday)]

One thing I have learned over the last 4 years is how there are so many people out there with pain- just like yours and other kinds too. It feels like you are alone, but there are probably a host of others in your own neighborhood that have had to deal with something like thus.

Mu only advice: Your wife gets a job, any job, asap, while you are figuring out what to do.

I am so sorry you are here going through what all of us have had the luck to deal with.

I can say I understand your feelings and your emotional rollercoaster. Unfortunately this does not go away right away.. I went to IC and first thing I said was I need you to fix me and make my head stop.... He said I was the only one who can do that and it will take time and a very painful healing path to walk down...

My advice is this.... take care of you. Seek IC for you, not your ws not your child and for sure not you M. Seek it because you want to be the best you that you can.

Force yourself to eat... this one was hard for me because i was physically ill. puking and gagging all the time.... if that is the case go to doc and ask for somthing to ease your anxiety.

Take your time. Ask all the questions you need the answers to. If you feel your ws is not answering them tell them. tell them your deal breakers. tell your ws what you will and wont deal with in this.

Ensure all contact is OVER

and as for retaliating and having your own affair and kicking his ass... this is my issue at the moment. I want to do the same. I just keep telling myself I am better than that. That is not the kind of human I am or ever want to be.

sometimes it helps and others it doesnt.

love and light

I do think she had a sense of entitlement. She would complain about how hard it was to spend all day with a 4 year old. Granted. Children can be needy. But she was spending 3-4 hours with her boyfriend and then the afternoon with my son until I got home. She hasn't done a lick of office work in 5 years. Her activities consisted of walking the dog, getting coffee, fucking her boyfriend, dropping and picking up our kid. She complained that she wanted to go to yoga but then wouldn't go. She complained that her friends were whiny. Sometimes she made dinner but she is a terrible cook so we ate out a lot. She had no worries about bills or me being unfaithful or abusive. Our boy is wonderful. We have a yellow fucking lab. Great dog. We live in a decent neighborhood. What is so bad about that life for a woman?

You just about described my XW word for word. Hell, you just described a LOT of our wayward spouses. I say this because your situation is a lot more common than you feel and "entitlement " is a pretty common mindset of waywards during the affair. The trauma is very unique to you, but in the grand scheme of things cheating is much more predictable an act of human nature to the point wayward follow a script. We often describe it a them following the cheater's playbook. Heed the advice here. Not all of it will apply to your situation but this place is an Ace Harwadware of advice, wisdom and experience on infidelity.

She keeps asking me "what do you want to do?"

I'm going to assume here that she is asking you what you want to do moving forward with the marriage, reconcile or divorce, correct? My take is when a person is truly remorseful AND wants the marriage, this question is not going to be asked. She should be driven to prove to you that she wants to preserve the marriage, not stick a wet finger in the air to gauge which way YOU will blow. The entitled wayward asks you what YOU will do so they can see how much of that comfy lifestyle and status quo they are about to loose based on how you will proceed. She will adjust HER plans accordingly based on your decisions. A LOT of waywards are in self preservation mode right after Dday.

To contrast, remorse would be telling you "I know what I have done to you was horrible. I hurt you and none of it was your fault. I will understand if what I did is a deal breaker for you, but I want you to know that I love you and want to stay in this marriage and I will do whatever I can to answer all of your questions, help you heal, meet all your requirements for reconciliation, see a therapist, etc. Should you choose divorce, I will understand and I will still do whatever I can to help you heal, fix my broken, and do what is right for our son." A majority of us didn't get that from our spouses on our Ddays. Some, like me, didn't even get that at all. However, it is rare that a WS tells a BS this right out of the gate. It sounds like your WW may need more time and consequences to truly grasp the gravity of the situation.

Revenge Affairs (RA) are never the answer. The only person you hurt is yourself, and the person the cheater betrays first is their own self. They rationalize away their principals for so little in return. Don't put your self down to their level. As for the OM, I'm sure he is dealing with his own shit storm with his exec wife. I get the need to do something as a reaction. Getting cheated on is so incredibly emasculating for most men. It is our natural reaction. But the emasculation is really on the OM, having to hide, lie, manipulate in darkness to get what he wants as opposed to standing out in the open and be offered freely what he wants based on character, respect and integrity.

But if the urge still compels you then you can make him cower in your presence by just giving him "I'm going to pulverize you with my bare hands" stare the next time you see him. Keep that stare unbroken for as long as you can. OM will be VERY uncomfortable with those ocular lasers fixated on him. But the bonis would be is if you see his wife with him, give her a smile and a wink. Let the OM go nuts trying to figure out what that means. I've done this stare and wink routine, even gone as far as have a private chat with the OBS away from the OM in plain site. The conversation was mostly trading intel and giving encouragement, but was hilarious to see the OM squirm in reaction. He'll start having images of his wife and you having a revenge affair.

Listen to Worndown and others about seeking legal advise. I think this is very important, especially if you strongly feel you have an entitled WW. Your attorney may want to lay out a plan of action, but you have the final approval on how and when it get executed. Just having an attorney at the ready and a petition "locked and loaded" will give you some confidence in knowing that if worse case scenario occurs you will be prepared. Hell, you may not know if your WW has already filed! Your attorney can find out for you.

People have it a lot worse than I do.

Every situation is different. Including the stories of each person who is here. But pain is pain and being betrayed is way up the scale on emotional wounds. And it has its own own of messing with your system.

I can barely think.

That's just one way. Feeling paralyzed. Being unable to sleep. Losing appetite. Crying at any moment. And so many other ways that betrayal comes out emotionally, psychologically and even physically.

But you are doing well for having posted less than 24 hours ago. You've been processing. You've been very honest. You've begun to see things differently. It's OK that you feel limited. Be kind and patient with yourself.

I have many of the traits of the Nice Guy. Sobering. I thought I was better than that. I still may be.

It isn't a matter of being "better than that" though. You were wounded as a child as you experienced the trauma of your parents divorce and you accepted a false belief about yourself and how a marriage is supposed to work. Is that really your fault?

Discovering the underlying pattern is incredibly sobering. For me, it felt like I had betrayed myself and that was difficult to absorb. It was an additional component of what I needed to address in my own healing process and it took quite a bit of hard work. Most of that was finding my own sense of self-worth instead of having outside factors dictate my view of my value.

I feel like less of a man.

There is an insidious lie that comes along with being betrayed -- that it is somehow your fault or that it is somehow a commentary on you. It's very common for a betrayed spouse (and gender doesn't matter) to end up wrestling with the type of feelings that you are expressing.

The truth is that the affair speaks to your wife's character. She has a gap that she was trying to fill and/or numb. As a result, she was self-centered and pursued "ego kibbles" from someone else. It didn't even matter who the other person was. The OM isn't better in any way. This was all about your wife and the fact that she found someone who was similarly looking to patch up their internal gap.

The truth is that you are loving, kind, faithful, hard working, worthwhile, important and strong. Remind yourself of that often because it can take a while before the brain begins to believe it and even longer before it soaks into your heart.

I do think she had a sense of entitlement.

It seems that the "Why?" for a wayward spouse often ends up having roots in FOO (family of origin). There is some hole/flaw/false assumption that is stuck there. Your wife does sound entitled from what you've written. It is her job to end up seeing that as well and to continue digging because there is a Why? under that. She needs to keep asking Why? until she finds the root of it all.

But this is an intellectual exercise.

Your healing will need to involve both your mind and heart. You'll find that there are some false assumptions that you've held in your mind for some time and the intellectual exercise will be key in setting you free. You'll also find things you never realized and the intellect will also be key to identifying and correcting them. But it is the heart that is more difficult to reach as sometimes the mind can ascent to a belief, but the heart just doesn't feel it and it takes a lot of effort to change that.

Continue to use your mind, but find ways to help the heart engage. Let it grieve. Journal and touch upon where your heart is. Take time to feel. Feed yourself with positive emotions and thoughts -- thankfulness can be a huge one.

What about revenge?

I'll give you some things that helped me.

- If he was willing to disrespect you through the affair, he is likely the type that would be willing to charge you with assault.

- Let jail be ever in the front of your mind to hold you back. Your child needs you.

- If you can easily beat him without breaking a sweat, you could easily go too far in your rage. Then jail is for life and what would that do to the other betrayed spouse and child?

- What has been taken from you can never be fixed, replaced or repaid. As a result, while "justice/revenge" may feel good for a moment, it ultimately won't satisfy.

- It would be a betrayal of who you are. It would be lowering yourself to similar self-centered, controlling and hurtful actions that characterized the OM.

She keeps asking me "what do you want to do?"

Tell her that you are still in a state of shock, that your emotions are uncharacteristically running wild and that you'll need time and her support before you will be able to even begin to answer that question. Get the book "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" as a starting point for her and for you to understand what the path forward might look like.

Grizzly, you're safe here. Everything that you are questioning, expressing and posting is honest and totally understandable. Keep on venting and posting as you are doing a great job of processing and helping yourself begin to heal.

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 10:42 AM, October 26th (Wednesday)]

Did this other guy's wife also say she has an STD as well?

What do you mean they did evil things along with sex...what are evil things.

Do not feel less of a man because of this, no one can go through this type of deception.

A revenge affair will solve nothing at all, and it won't even be the same...plus your wife can always bring that up which will drag you down to her level.

Why was your wife in therapy in the first place.

Beating the shit out of the OM will make you feel better, but jail and a lawsuit will ruin you. Just knowing the OM is going to live the rest of his life looking over his shoulder for you is good enough, and you know he will.

I would consider seeing a lawyer about this situation, the post nup and the business at the least.

You don't need to commit to anything now. In the beginning all I could tell my wife is that "I'm willing to try and stay together, but I can't say if we will or not." I stayed in that place for a month. I decided to stay in mid September. much sooner than I thought I would, but my WW put in some serious work and has handled things as she should.

Maybe one thing to think about now. What would it take for you to just "try"? List them out. Give them to your wife. See if she can accept them. Some examples of what I needed

1. No contact call to OM on speaker with me present

2. STD test

3. Full transparency. Every password to everything

4. No alcohol unless I was present

5. Confession in person to our parents

6. Cut friendship with anyone supporting the affair

7. Accept full responsibility for the affair

8. Attend Counseling

9. No discussions about our marriage with opposite sex

10. No one on one interactions with opposite sex without my approval

11. No deletion of any data. calls, texts, search history etc..

12. Remove all wedding pictures and family pictures from the time of the A

13. Release any further secrets you are hiding. Finding out after this point is a deal breaker

14. Absolutely no friendships with men outside the family

15. Polygraph to confirm her story

Those are all the things I needed just to "try".

[This message edited by Chance819 at 11:37 AM, October 26th (Wednesday)]

Have you spoken to the other man's wife? Does she know?

Have you spoken to the other man's wife? Does she know?

He has:

His wife and I spoke about what was going on at length

Thanks Worndown...I missed that.

Definitely get IC. I was lucky and found a great person on the first try. If it doesn't seem like a good fit keep trying until you find someone that is.

It was wonderful to find someone to talk to. Someone that was not related or entangled in anyway.

A good IC can help you 1) separate your thoughts from your feelings, 2) process your feelings, which is entirely different from intellectual, 3) test the validity of your thoughts, and 4) make decisions.

You feel so awful because you've been traumatized by d-day. It's not an artillery shell hitting your house, but it's traumatic nonetheless. You have no choice but to figure out how to deal with it. Have faith in yourself to figure out how to heal.

It sounds like you're still in shock. People in shock don't think well. I, too, think your answer to your W should be, 'I don't know what I want yet. I'll let you know when I've figured it out.'

If she accepts that, she's probably a candidate for R; if she keeps pushing for an answer, maybe not. R goes more easily if the WS is committed to changing from cheater to good partner no matter what the BS wants to do.

IOW, you don't have to decide between D & R now. You can decide to work on your M, observe your W, and eventually decide on the basis of your work and observations.

Even if your W is an ideal remorseful WS who is fully committed to R, you may decide you want D. That would be OK. Give yourself permission to figure out what you want, irrespective of what your W, your kids, your family, your friends, or the media say.

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:08 PM, October 26th (Wednesday)]

What about revenge? A part of me wants to go out and have an affair of my own.

It wouldn't be the same, it would be seen as just getting back at her other than a betrayal which is what she did. You'd lose your moral high ground and end up hating yourself because you'd be a cheater as well.

I also want to beat the shit out of the other guy. I could do that without breaking a sweat.

But it's not his fault she cheated (or yours for that matter), it's hers.

I have taken everyone’s advice. I spent the day today on me. I went for a hike. Climbed a mountain and screamed at the top of my lungs. I probably scared the hell out of some people. But I don’t give a shit anymore. I read a good portion of NMMNG. Up to Chapter 7. Boy that book really hits home. That is ME! I wish I had read that book YEARS ago. I like the advice it gives. I like the analysis. Spot on in my case. Absent, abusive father. Coddling mother. Raised by women, aunts, teachers. More “comfortable” around women. Averse to male friendships. Amazing.

I do wonder though. I felt a surge of power when reading the book. A sense of liberation on the horizon (likely to be short lived and followed by depression, loneliness, rage etc…). But it was very interesting to look at things this way. Take care of me first! It would never have occurred to me to do this. Not worry about what other people think. Scandalous!

But you know what? I was assertive. I flirted with a beautiful young woman. And she seemed turned on. I was aggressive and no nononsense. Not rude. But not polite. And people seemed to respect that.

What I am having problems with, is after so many years of groveling and being excessively nice and sensitive and polite - I kind of want to be an asshole. I kind of want to be rude and a jerk. It feels so good to have that confidence of NOT caring what other people think about you. I am sure that the book does not suggest this and I am taking things to the opposite extreme. But it was tempting today.

I told a high power business man that I liked his tie that he was wearing and then without permission grabbed it to look at the label. That could be considered assault. But he viewed it in a very complimentary fashion. I was amazed.

My mission is to take the advice of this book. And your advice.

I have reached out to some acquaintances who may be safe people to talk to.

I have contacted an attorney.

Rather than be paralyzed I am trying to take some action.

I am going to have a talk with my wife tonight. I am going to go with what I think is very good advice that was given on this forum. I will tell her that I don’t know what I am going to do but will let her know when I have decided.

I am going to come up with some ground rules that she must accept if she wants to try to reconcile.

I am having a hard time not being cold and rude to her when I see her around the house. I am so angry with her.

I love your advice WornDown. I have been telling her that since I found out. Actions speak louder than words. When I get up at 5 am to go to work and come home exhausted at 8 pm come rain or shine. If I am tired or sick or feeling depressed. I am telling my family that I love them by my actions. I am doing what I can to provide for them. But as the book NMMNG suggests, I am not taking care of myself or my needs.

I don’t think she is a very strong woman. I think as someone said that she may WANT to work hard towards reconciliation. I don’t know if she is capable of it given her personality. I will make this clear. When she says “I love you and I want to make it work.” I just tell her “We’ll see.”

Words are bullshit in this context. Will she do the work? I honestly don’t know.

What I have not yet done is found a counselor. My plan is to find a church tomorrow and talk to a pastor or priest to see if that helps. I am hoping that they may know a good counselor to refer me to. But I think everyone is right. That will be essential. Just writing this stuff and corresponding with all of you has been incredibly helpful. Sometimes I read something that someone has written and tears well up in my eyes knowing that a complete stranger would take enough interest in me and my life and time out of their day to respond. I can not thank you guys enough.

As for revenge you are all right. Not good for my son to have a dad in jail. Not fair to the other woman. No matter how satisfying it would be to beat his face into a pulp. Not good for my career either. You guys say don’t blame the guy. Blame the wife. I blame them both. I can’t help it. He knew she was vulnerable and took advantage of the window she gave him into our imperfect marriage. A real scumbag. I am a pretty big guy and can be intimidating when I am angry. I am sure if I ever run into that son of a bitch he will shit his pants. I just hope that I can control myself.

And a revenge affair. I can only imagine how a woman would feel if she was used in this way. Like total trash. I can’t do that for revenge or some kind of brief satisfaction. Too sadistic for me.

I like the idea of my wife getting a job. She certainly will not. :)

Craig - I don’t know if his wife has an STD or not. I really don’t care. That is his responsibility. Not mine. The evil things are I guess evil in my mind. Let me explain. I work with my hands a lot. I have an exhausting and physically (and mentally) demanding job. I come home with my arms, back, and hands in knots and spasm quite often. One of the skills that my wife has is that she went to massage therapy school. She went to school for it. I have asked her for massages to help me with this problem. When I ask her you would think I was asking her to cook me a 5 course meal. There are excuses and delay tactics and then if I am lucky a few minute half hearted massage. So years ago I gave up asking. Instead she has gotten me massages coupons (at my expense of course) and presented them to me as birthday and anniversary gifts. Presented them with flourish mind you.

Why is this important? Well, she told me yesterday the her boyfriend would get cramps in his hands and arms from his work and she would give him a massage 1-2x a week so she could touch him. And so it would turn sexual.

In my mind that is just plain fucking evil.

Why is this important? Well, she told me yesterday the her boyfriend would get cramps in his hands and arms from his work and she would give him a massage 1-2x a week so she could touch him. And so it would turn sexual.

When you say boyfriend, do you mean the OM, the affair partner?

So I had the cops called on me.

What you say? What did you do?

Nothing.

But that can’t be. You must have done something.

Let me explain. This happened yesterday.

We took my son to the pediatrician because we thought he might have an ear infection. After we left I drove. And I got this idea in my mind that I wanted to go to all of her and her boyfriends stomping grounds as a family. A bit juvenile I admit. But I thought it would make me feel better to see where she was fucking this guy and have her go back to these places with me and our son. I did not tell her this.

I told her I would drive and that we were going to one of our favorite restaurants for lunch. She agreed.

When we drove passed the restaurant she asked where we were going and I simply said, “I’ll give you one guess.”

She figured it out and was not happy about it. I really didn't care.

We got to one of the places where they used to go to fuck. In a park under an overpass. By a river. It looked like a place where people would go to shoot up heroin. Super trashy. But there were were the three of us. My son and I went down to look at the river and she would not get out of the car.

When we left we went to the coffee shop where she and her boyfriend would often meet. She reluctantly went in and we all got coffee. She got a phone call and walked out of the coffee shop.

When my son got his hot cocoa and I got my coffee we went out to the car and found her on the phone. I asked her who she was talking to and she said the police.

I said “what?” as you would guess.

It turns out her weirdo divorced lesbian in denial friend (who secretly is in love with my wife) who lives out of state had called the cops on me telling them that she was “being held against her will in a coffee shop.” For all the faults my wife has she was talking to the police and telling them it was a misunderstanding and that they didn't need to come.

I told my wife my son and I were going back into the coffee shop to finish our drinks and she should join us when she was off the phone. She said ok.

You can imagine what happened next.

We finished our drinks. No wife. We went out to the parking lot. No car.

Blue lights. Sirens. 2 cop cars. 4 huge police officers.

“Are you Grizzly?”

“Yes sir”

“Is this your son”

“Yes sir”

“We got a call that you were holding a woman against her will in this coffee shop”

That is literally what they were told “holing a woman against her will”. Unfuckingbelieveable!

“No sir, let me explain…”

So I proceeded to tell not 4 but 6 different officers what had happened while they interviewed my wife separately at the other end of the parking lot.

My boy was initially terrified, but I will say the cops were great, and very kind.

But this is the place where my wife and her boyfriend first met and where they started and often met before they went to other places to fuck.

And I was the one who was being questioned by the police.

Before that happened I did not think the day could get any worse. But the Universe has a way of surprising me.

The worst part was after the cops let me go, my wife defended her bitch friend saying “she was only looking out for my safety.”

Now mind you I had never even raised my voice in the car. No threats, nothing. I just made her feel a bit uncomfortable about going to her old fucking ground for 10 minutes.

I wanted her to call up her friend and scream at her for putting me and our son through such a humiliating ordeal in front of so many people at a place we commonly go.