SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Very helpful post Crushed.

Thank you.

Another question ... would it be pointless to get the truth out there? When I confronted her about the affair, the first thing she said was that she didn't want to open up about it because she was afraid of me "destroying her life and airing her dirty laundry" (more selfishness/all about her). Obviously, I don't hate her and don't want that (she's doing it all on her own at this point). But I know she would never tell her Christian parents what she's done and wants to maintain her image.

If I end up filing (most likely legal separation, but possibly divorce), would it be inadvisable to get the truth out there? My intention would be only to explain the truth to her father, as well as anyone else who reaches out to me about it (I would not spread the information to everyone and anyone).

Experience with anything like this? Better to just let it go and move on?

Thanks.

Throwawaybay, this is tough. Your moral character is commendable. I, 100% agree, you should do what you feel God is leading you to do. With that said, you are very early on. Your emotions change every few seconds right now.

As someone else posted, file for divorce, not legal separation. That's letting her know she can do anything she wants to you. Don't be her doormat or plan b. God didn't make you for that. I believe we go through this to make us stronger. When you survive this, with or without your WW, you'll have an amazing testimony.

Knock her off her fence and file for D. You don't have to follow through. I feel like she is bluffing. She knows you won't do it and right now, why should she? She's getting everything she wants. She's got her husband her gf and no consequences! In a lot of states, including mine, the person that files first gets to talk with the judge first, meaning that they get to make the first impression. Don't give her that option.

You take control of your life now. You ask if you should expose it. Absolutely. Make it so uncomfortable for her that she can't stand it. Is the OW married? If so the obs needs to know about it. That gives you 2 sets of eyes on them.

Expose and all of a sudden her unicorn fairyland starts to smell like the sewer that it is,

I think filing for legal separation and her getting papers at work might accomplish the same thing.

I don't think so.

"Legal separation" is commonly cheaterspeak for "I get to go try out a new spouse before I divorce the old one."

Unless you live in a jurisdiction that requires a legal separation to precede actual divorce, I think it's a terrible idea.

Unless I missed it, I haven't seen anyone point out to you that clearly your wife is bisexual . Interesting.

Are you ok with her being bisexual? That's something you really need to consider if you want to reconcile.

However, since she clearly does not want to reconcile, it's highly possible she is lesbian as well. And,if she is, you can't reconcile. Gay is gay. As a man, if she is a lesbian, it would never work.

Cheaters lie and minimize. She's not wanting to leave your marriage because of a crush and a few kisses. They've had sex. You need to be tested for stds.

[This message edited by confused615 at 8:12 AM, November 13th (Sunday)]

She threw you away , shows no remorse , and is still stringing you along because she needs a fallback plan.

Look , R is difficult enough with a remorseful spouse , but in your case , it's just a lost cause .

File for divorce , and cut all contact with her .

You're still young , don't waste your time with her.

[This message edited by ivehadit01 at 10:05 AM, November 13th (Sunday)]

I too REALLY did not want to be the one to file divorce. I made vows, loved my husband, was committed to my marriage.

Unfortunately HE wasn't willing to give up his exit affair (ironically, with a 'lesbian' who decided to switch teams & leave her W for my H). He treated me garbage before the A was outed, and once OW filled me in, I became the enemy somehow.

He drained our joint accounts, his 401k, separated all his finances leaving myself & our daughter completely destitute while even under the same roof. We'd be hungry (he was laid off & I'd been SAHM with health issues since I was 20). He'd take OW on a dinner date, then bring in take out containers of leftovers from his restaurant meals. While refusing to give DD or I grocery money!!

It's amazing how cruel a wayward can become. I didn't want to file, but after waiting 26 months for him to file, & living locked in a bedroom, I HAD to file to 1. Save myself emotionally , 2. Stop the financial ruin.

Maybe rethink your stance. I know it's tough, but you must protect yourself. Unremorseful waywards truly can turn into walking nightmares, who will stoop to the lowest depths.

I'm sorry you're here, I hope she doesn't sink to the depths my ex did, I'm just trying to share that it CAN happen. I don't want to see anyone get screwed over, like I did.

It was all because I held onto love too long, and kept believing he'd wake up, stop his crazy crap, and value his family again.

BTW- We moved out 19 months ago. He cared so much about us that his OW moved into the house I still Co own 2 weekends after we left. He did everything he could to screw me over in the D (& did a good job of it), and has forgotten about the kids.

[This message edited by WowItsReallyReal at 9:03 AM, November 13th (Sunday)]

I appreciate all the replies.

Wool94, Thank you for your perspective. I agree that it's highly possible she is bluffing. I don't believe a judge would ever be involved given our circumstances. Also, I agree about taking control (I've felt powerless and no control for months now). OW was previously in a long-term relationship with another woman, but I believe that relationship ended (according to several sources) after WW and OW cheated. I still feel like she deserves to know the truth.

setecastronomy: Thank you for your perspective as well. It really resonates with me what you're saying, almost like she can continue as is for as long as she wants. Appreciate your point of view.

confused615, yes, given the circumstances, she has to be bisexual. We were sexually compatible for 5+ years. When confronted with my knowledge, she tried to justify by saying she has struggled with same-sex attraction her entire life, blah blah blah. But no one is going to convince me that any person who is gay would be able to have sexual compatibility with a member of the opposite sex for years. She MUST be bisexual. Either way, it was a lame excuse ... I struggle with opposite-sex attraction, but I'm not going around cheating on my wife with other women. Also, I've considered the STD thing, and will at some point. However, from the evidence I acquired, things WW's affair didn't go from EA to PA until after separation. She definitely should be checked though. Thanks.

ivehadit01, great point and I completely agree. Marriage is hard enough with two people wanting it and trying to make it work (same goes for reconciliation). Me wanting it isn't enough to make it happen.

WowItsReallyReal, I'm very sorry to hear about your experiences. Emotions bring out the best and worst in people, and unfortunately, people lose sight of morality when their emotions get so twisted during affairs. I hope things are better for you now, I really do.

I will reassess my circumstances and my approach to all of this. In the end, even if it means more pain for me, I must stand by my convictions and do all I can to honor God in my situation, but I also hear what most of you are saying, and that doesn't necessarily mean to lie down and be her doormat or be abused in any way. So far, she has come across as very confused rather than angry or vindictive, however I know that can change quickly and I need to be prepared for that.

Thank you all very much ... really appreciate all the insight.

I first of all want to say that I'm sorry you've joined this club. Not a fun time. The fact that she is bisexual may always plague your marriage if you eventually reconcile. She may be tempted to explore beyond your heterosexual marriage.

The first thing that jumped out at me in your post was that she gave lame excuses for the divorce. She is not happy in the marriage. That seems like a pretty valid reason. It is not a reflection of you for her to say that. But it's a pretty strong reason and most often one that people cite when they file.

If she won't file, you should. Give her what she wants. Knock her off the fence. She seems to be scared to take the leap and her reasons of wanting to see if it's the right choice, indicates she may be a bit apprehensive. I'd recommend IC for both of you until either therapist agrees it's time for MC.

Thanks Marie.

Definitely accurate analysis. She has deep-rooted unhappiness with many aspects of her life, not just the marriage, which further points to the fact that ultimately, this isn't about me (or the marriage really). It runs deeper than that.

I also believe that she is scared of taking that leap. She knows deep down that filing and pursuing a bisexual/homosexual lifestyle would mean she will need to change nearly every relationship in her life. All of her former friends, most of her current friends, and much of her family would not accept that lifestyle and she expressed her understanding of all of this to me several weeks ago. As a result, she is very apprehensive about making that decision, which is causing her to string me along until she comes to a decision.

We are both currently seeing the same counselor for IC. He saw both of us for MC twice, but I've since refused to continue MC so long as she says she is determined to file for divorce. I plan on continuing with him indefinitely for IC. She has an appointment this coming week, though I'm not sure if she'll continue to see him individually after this week.

Again, I'm hesitant to file for her. I plan to consult with those I've been receiving counsel from during this process to get their opinions on filing or not.

Thank you all. Very insightful analysis from just a few posts.

She agreed to try some counseling for two reasons: 1) to determine if divorce was "the right decision" and 2) because she was worried about me. We've tried counseling for about a month or so.

Fire your MC. IMO, neither of your W's reasons for pursuing counseling are amenable to MC. Fire your MC as an IC, too. She's way out of line offering you MC for IC issues.

For your W to make a good decision about D, she needs to figure out if she wants to be M to you. She needs to combine everything she knows about herself and about you and about your M and decide to D or not. Your very presence in counseling sessions takes her out of herself and messes up her ability to work with the relevant data.

You need her to make a clean decision, without your undue influence. If you don't get that, the issue is likely to come up again in the future. Why subject yourself to that?

WRT her 'worries' about you, if she stays with you only because she's worried about you, she's bound to resent you more and more, and resentment is a relationship-killer.

And if he stays because she's worried about you, she's saying to the world that she sees you as a baby, a baby who can't live without her.

I think NMMNG is half crap (especially the parts in which the author describes how 'women' think), but accepting the role of 'guy who can't live without her' is not at all what he means by 'Integrated Man'.

In any case, your W's decision to D or not, and her 'worries' about you, are all about her, and not at all about you or your M.

BTW, as you've indicated, her worries about you are probably worries about how she'll be perceived by her friends and family if she Ds.

I know at the moment, there really isn't any us, so I need to keep trying to reframe my way of thinking.

Stop trying. Do it. Pretending is not 'Godly'.

Sorry to go hardass on you. If you wanted to know about R after a same-sex A, I could share my experience and offer support. If you were conflicted about R vs D after a same-sex A, I could offer my experience and offer support.

But you seem to be asking for help in maintaining a view of your relationship that conflicts with the facts that you've shared. IMO, that makes confrontation probably the best support to give you....

Also, don't kid yourself. She's probably bi, but she could be gay. But that's irrelevant, since she says she wants D.

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:49 PM, November 13th (Sunday)]

Thanks sissoon. I don't think you are being a hardass at all ... exactly the type of response/information I'm seeking.

I will confront my counselor about some of the points you all have brought up, including understanding his rationale to MC when she is obviously not seriously interested in reconciling.

sissoon, I am definitely interested in hearing of your experience with the issues I'm having. Please feel free to either post here or PM me.

And my understanding is most homosexuals are of the claim that they were born that way. Therefore, it really isn't possible for my wife to have enjoyed and been satisfied sexually for five years with me if she was gay. Bi? Sure. But not a lesbian. That's just my understanding on hetero vs homo stuff.

Thank you!

EDIT: Also, interested to know your thoughts on reaching out to her family and/or our close friends on "why" this is all happening.

[This message edited by throwawayabay at 3:11 PM, November 13th (Sunday)]

"You have to ask yourself, do I love this person enough to help HER heal from the deep wounds she (obviously) has, even if in the end we don't end up together?".

This jumped out at me.

She needs to dig deeply to heal her own wounds. This is not your job nor burden to bear. Please do not let your MC (which is a waste of time anyway since she is not remorseful) nor your WW goad, convince, or guilt you into this. This is NOT YOUR JOB.

Also, if she was so worried about you, why did she cheat?

And I strongly agree with the advice to skip the "legal separation" step and just proceed with filing for divorce. Her being served with papers could be the push she needs to get her head out of her ass. If she doesn't come around, then you will have your answer.

Lastly, you should be able to tell anyone you need to tell in order to get the support YOU need. Remember, this is not what you are doing TO her. These are results of HER actions. All hers.

The most obvious answer is often the right one. Maybe she does have mommy issues, and those deep-rooted problems from childhood could be real. Or, maybe she just secretly always wanted to know what it would be like with a woman and found out that she really, really liked it. If so, you could be fighting an uphill battle. I wish you well. Believe it or not, it gets better.

Has your wife ever expressed any sexual interest in other women before this?

No. She never expressed this. She was raised in very sheltered, Christian home. When I confronted her, she claimed she always struggled with same-sex attraction, but she said it as if to justify her affair. Part of me does not believe that, but obviously it's something that can't be proven one way or the other.

Thank you. I'm really hoping it does get better. Starting to see it a little lately. Figure filing and getting her off the fence will help more.

[This message edited by throwawayabay at 10:22 PM, November 13th (Sunday)]

1) I know a number of gay people who devoted a lot of time to straight sex because they thought they should, even though straight sex was essentially nauseating for them - they just thought it was supposed to be that way.

I don't think any of us know what your W's 'true nature' is, but my sense is that she's probably telling herself she's really gay, and she's probably rewriting your M history in a way that denies she had good sex with you.

But it really doesn't matter - your W wants D.

2) Alas, my experience is way different from yours. One day my W finally understood that she had betrayed herself by cheating and decided to stop. She revealed her A that same day and immediately became a model WS (whoop-de-do), and she's stayed the course.

3) I believe very strongly that BSes who deal with homosexual As have to process the same stuff as other BSes do. IMO, the gender of the ap has +es and -es WRT recovery.

For example, outside of the BS community (maybe inside, too, but I've never heard it) a lot of people think that our WSes had gay As because the male BSes weren't manly enough and the female BSes weren't womanly enough. I think that adds to our shame - but all BS shame is, well, BS (bullsh!t), and we have to heal from it anyway; this just makes it a little harder for us.

OTOH, male BSes have absolutely no cause to fear the ap was more manly, and female BSes have no reason to fear the ap was more feminine. That's a big relief, IMO.

So I think BSes are BSes, and I encourage you to read in the R, G, and D/S forums to find info that you can use. I think you'll find a lot.

At the same time, there's a thread for BSes with same-gender aps in the ICR forum. Some people think there really is something unique for BSes with same-gender aps, and you'll probably find good info there, too.

Remember, it takes 2 to make a good M, and your W wants D. It seems pretty likely that you can't have a good M with her.

Since we're in R, we haven't had to say anything to friends, so I have no advice for you.

I do know that when a friend came out in the '80s, society was different. He didn't lose many friends. Personally, I figured I was already tainted by being this guy's friend, and I'd be tainted even if I dumped him, so W & I happily kept the friendship going.

Besides, he was a friend, and I like my friends to be happy.... I suspect at least some of your W's friends will stick with her, especially since the stigma of homosexuality is less powerful today than 30+ years ago.

But that's her problem, not yours. Yours may be dealing with mutual friends who drop you and mutual friends who helped her cheat.

You may have to make new friends, but that's something human beings can do.

Bottom line: you can survive and thrive.

1) I hear what you're saying, but that wasn't my wife. I know beyond any doubt that she was sexually satisfied in our marriage. We were sexually compatible, and she enjoyed sex with me.

But I agree ... and my sense is the same ... that she's telling herself she's lesbian to help her make sense of and justify her emotions and actions these past months. And she's definitely been focusing (for many months now) on the negatives surrounding me and our marriage and ignoring all the positives (which is deadly to any relationship).

And I agree as well ... it really doesn't matter at the end of the day, because she currently does not want the marriage.

2) I'm glad your wife chose the path she took. I know that doesn't mean it's been easy for you and her by any means, but I'm happy for you.

3) I also agree with your points on same-sex ap vs. opposite-sex ap.

I browsed the ICR thread on same-sex ap, but didn't find a whole lot there. However, I'll be sure to check out the R, G, and D/S forums as well. Is there a search function on this site? I couldn't find it last time I checked.

I agree, until she gets onboard and we both are trying for the M, I cannot have any hope for a future with this person. Thanks for the positivity about my future, I appreciate that.

Frankly, if you end up in divorce, you have essentially been fired as her support and her secret keeper. You have no obligation to let your WW re-write your marital history and make up some grand story about why you and she are not married. I'm not saying to place full-page ads in your local paper nor send out massive targeted mailings, but a simple "we're not married because she cheated on me with her girlfriend" will do the trick.

Bottom line is, if one wishes to maintain their image, then best they honor that image and not toss it away. You are not obligated to keep your WWs secrets and you are definitely under no obligation to lie for her nor tolerate any lies that she comes up with, to justify splitting your marriage asunder.

Thanks Skan.

I agree with both of your points and reading that has given me a new perspective on my approach to if/how I plan on informing our friends/family about what has happened in our marriage. Thank you.