SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yes, I would say your wife is even more callous than the typical cheater. If you stay with her she will ruin your life.

You are better than her. And most women you'll meet are better than her, too. You deserve better than this.

Thanks ChamomileTea.

My husband and I (married 30+ years) didn't even have our first argument until we'd been married 3 years. Our honeymoon period lasted for 5. You guys don't have that kind of foundation to build on. Your marriage was built on sand.

Do you think that it would be possible to start scratch and then build a foundation. Is that something that people do?

Why would the relationship with the child have to end if you divorce?

If she loves her kid, then she should do whatever she can to facilitate a relationship between you and the boy.

Confused - I would lose it. She would never stop me from seeing him, but I would still lose that relationship over time. All the things we could have done as a family would stop and I'd be limited to a few hours a week.

And thanks for your honest story. I don't think you're a bad person.

Your stepson doesn't need to witness you being "fake married" to each other.

Your WW is too much , just file and convince her to let you see your stepson as much as possible.

[This message edited by ivehadit01 at 7:56 PM, January 13th (Friday)]

She admitted that for the last 18 months she’s been having an affair with Mr A. Hotels a couple times a month, any opportunity at work. We got married in the midst of her having an affair. It took her a whole 5 days after we married until she called him. It took a whole of 2 weeks until she slept with him.

Walloped - what do you mean when you say married me under false pretences? Do you mean she didn't love me or didn't respect the marriage vows?

Fucking OM less than two weeks after you two exchanged marriage vows.- Most definitely not showing you the love there.

Contacting the OM 5 days after and fucking the OM 12 days after saying you're vows. - What do you think?

She admitted that for the last 18 months she’s been having an affair with Mr A. Hotels a couple times a month, any opportunity at work. We got married in the midst of her having an affair. It took her a whole 5 days after we married until she called him. It took a whole of 2 weeks until she slept with him.

Walloped - what do you mean when you say married me under false pretences? Do you mean she didn't love me or didn't respect the marriage vows?

Fucking OM less than two weeks after you two exchanged marriage vows.- Most definitely not showing you the love there.

Contacting the OM 5 days after and fucking the OM 12 days after saying you're vows. - What do you think?

FILE LIKE YESTERDAY. ANNULMENT.

Sorry double post. My computer has been acting like my XW. I haven't got a clue what its gonna do next.

Thanks everyone.

What I'm trying to understand is, is this who she is? Do people that have done this change?

ChamomileTea - you said there's a huge character flaw here. Will there always be this character flaw? She's talked about counselling so if this were to happen can a counsellor make this go away?

PlanC - I suppose callous is a word that describes her actions really well. Can somebody who is callous change so that they're not callous anymore?

I'm starting to come round to the fact that it wasn't just me that she didn't care for whilst this was happening. Her dad paid for the wedding, I guess she didn't care that he would be wasting all that money. Her son has so many people that love him and he'll be fine but I still think he'll be affected by this in a massive way and she didn't care about that either. Her parents, her friends, my parents - there's so many people that this will have an impact on so I suppose it means she didn't do it to be cruel to me or deliberately want to hurt me.

What I'm trying to get at is, this is her character, this is not a one-off mistake that is completely out of character - it's who she is.

Are you always like that? Or do you develop into that person through life experiences? Do things change if you really want them to?

I've been considering counselling for years (probably 7+) for my porn addiction but I don't think I really realised what it was and whilst I considered it I didn't pursue it. I should have done a long time ago.

I'm going to get counselling now. I know that I need to stop it, I want it to stop. If I want to change something about myself then I can go ahead and do it. I've broken some habits the last few months that I've wanted to for years but haven't - I know that can't compare serial cheating to biting nails but my point is that if anybody wants to change something about them then it's possible.

My view is that our wedding day was ridiculous. Our whole marriage so far is ridiculous. But what if we started from scratch?

She's reading these posts. I've not hidden it from her that I wanted to post on here. I don't know if that was a good thing or not, but suppose she says she wants to change, how do I know it's real?

Do your self a favor and google serial cheater. Read as much as you can on the subject and see what applies.

You've been with her for years. Compare the affairs with your sex life. Has your sex life with her been often and fullfilling? Were there major dips and valleys? The reason I ask is most women cannot have sex with one man at a time.

In this case, it looks like she may just like recreational sex with various partners, assuming she was still having a full sex life with you. If she was cutting you out, it would seem like she was still shopping for a different partner.

You will most likely find your answers in a google search of serial cheaters.

[This message edited by Chappie at 4:20 AM, January 14th (Saturday)]

I wouldn't say she's any 'worse' or 'better' than any other cheater. The fact she had more than one affair, and married you in the middle of it does make it stand out a bit but if you read on here long enough there are all kinds of permutations of the same old story and every time you think you've heard it all, something else comes along...

That said, I think what DOES make your situation unusual is that the relationship has never really existed without the cheating on the side. To get married whilst cheating is (to me) the act of a particularly selfish and / or cowardly individual. Add to this the fact that you have no children together (I recognise the complication with the stepchild) and I agree with other people that your best option would be to draw a line under it and file.

I have been married coming up to 15 years and I have two young children and no job at the moment. This is why I am for the time being seeing if reconciliation can work. There are no guarantees, and I retain the right to walk away later if it's not working for me. But make no mistake - it is very, vary HARD to reconcile. And maybe more so if you don't have the relationship history of 'good days' to give you a basic foundation to fall back on. You don't even know what she is like without the cheating.

You raise the point about starting again from scratch. If it were me I would start again from scratch with someone new. Here you are faced with a serial cheater who has disrespected you from the start. I would not be putting my money on that as a bet going forward.

I wish you the very best, truly.

There is no starting from scratch. That's why you go for the annulment. The contract you entered into she very specifically lied.

Starting from scratch implies there was once a period of 'scratch'. She's never had a boyfriend while married to you, that's your 'scratch'.

There is no way you should risk this. Marriages are built on trust. It can take a regular marriage 2-5 years to recover from infidelity. You guys haven't even been married that long and she's never not been cheating on you (and still may be)

Have you exposed the affairs to the workplaces and the significant others of her boyfriends? That's the best way to stop the affairs and get out of infidelity

I have to believe that every person is capable of real and lasting change. That said, not many people actually accomplish it. It would take hard work on her part, dealing with issues like honesty, integrity, and fear of commitment. And not all counselors are equal to the task. She would need a strong one who would hold her feet to the fire and call her on her bullshit. Not many are willing to do that.

Here's the problem with rebuilding from the ground up, which is also possible but is dependent upon getting the aforementioned character work done. You haven't processed this betrayal fully. It's still too early for you to make that kind of commitment. It's only been a month since your world was upended.

Processing the betrayal requires grief work. You've heard of the Stages of Grief, right? It sounds like you're in the Bargaining stage. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance... you're going to revisit all those stages (in no particular order) again and again while this information is processing in your brain. Finally, you'll arrive at a final form of acceptance that sticks. What that will look like, you can't know yet.

So, while you can work toward building a foundation, you're not in a position to make promises you don't know yet whether you'll be able to keep. Your mind will change from day to day for quite some time as you work through your grief. The foundation rests on two healthy psyches after all.

My advice to you would be to withhold any commitment until you've both had counseling. If you find your counselors too agreeable and comfortable, find new ones until you've got a person who will push you hard to explore and change character defects which are not in line with your own sets of values.

Do the work and give yourselves time to absorb your grief on the demise of the marriage you thought you had. If you both still want the marriage after this individual, internal work is done, you can start with a marriage counselor to help you build that foundation on good communication skills.

Try not to rush, Lee. You aren't in any position to know what you really want yet.

Superlee,

I do not mince my words, but I mean well.

I understand you want to stay married to her and have your stepson in your life.

But with her despicable actions, she poo-pooed on your marriage and on her son's possibility to have a father figure in his life.

What kind of person does this?And what consequences did she suffer?

I know you will not listen to some strangers on the internet to tell you what to do as I was in your shoes years ago.

I joined a forum when my daughter told me she saw her dad skyping with a blonde and closing the screen in a hurry.The advice I got was good, but I did not follow it because I thought I knew my husband well and that he is not a lair and a cheater.I ignored collective wisdom from thousands of people, but 3 year later, I found out they were right.

So, you do not have to take the advice to divorce her( which I totally agree with), but do get a good councilor for your lack of self esteem and porn habit.

She needs to get a councilor too, as she needs to find out where this big flow in her character comes from/ FOO issues maybe?

It could take years and there is no guarantee she will change. Recovery takes 2-5 years, sometimes longer. Why not invest this time and start a relationship with someone better and have a family of your own?

When you married her in July, did she have an idea her job was on the line? She was sleeping with her boss after all, he might have told her what was going to happen? There are women there Superlee who marry for financial security and a father figure for their child....

Did you tell the wife of the second AP?

She can read "How to help you partner heal from your affair" by Linda Mac Donald.

Wish you luck you have a long road ahead...

What do I do?

You kick her to the curb as hard and fast as the legal system in your country allows and find someone who is actually capable of a real relationship. Or stay, and set yourself up for more pain and ever-increasing financial consequences when the inevitable comes and she actually dumps you for one of her bf's.

As far as your relationship to the kid and what is right/fair... Are you ok with babysitting for your wife and supporting her while she is out with other men? If not, then you need to leave and accept that you, her family, and the kid are going to have to deal with some unfairness and disappointment in this situation - all of which is directly attributable to your wife's inability to be honest and faithful.

To do what your wife did, she'd have to be completely selfish, a liar, immoral, an oath breaker. She would either have to be an actual narcissist (and those cannot change) or she would have to be profoundly broken by earlier experiences in life (in which case change is possible with very hard work, but few are able to do the work).

You don't have any children with your wife that forcibly tie you to her.

I have four children with my wife. Half the number of affair partners my wife has had. But I am tied to her because of those children.

Want to spend the rest of your life waiting for the next affair?

But what if we started from scratch?

Starting from scratch isn't a real thing in human relationships.

I don't know if that was a good thing or not, but suppose she says she wants to change, how do I know it's real?

You don't. You get to spend years struggling to trust someone who was lying to you, her family, and god when she took her vows.

Most people who struggle with infidelity have years of faithful marriage and great memories of a courtship, engagement, wedding, and newlywed years untainted by infidelity. In some ways, they are reclaiming something they once had, though it will be forever changed. For them, infidelity itself represents a deviant behavior from the historical norms of their spouse and relationship. You have someone who never had, nor apparently ever desired, an exclusive relationship with you.

Trying to reconcile in these circumstances is a bit like continuing to run the engines on the Titanic post-iceberg. There is only one unalterable trajectory regardless of what you do - we are just trying to save you time and pain.

Starting from scratch isn't a real thing in human relationships.

OMG, so much this!

Yes, people CAN change. When the pain of staying who they are eclipses the struggle and work of being someone new.

Does she even WANT to change?

For me, the telling point is you interrogated her several times and she denied and lied. Until finally she was pretty much FORCED to confess. That does not sound like a person who is remorseful for the damage they've done, that sounds like a criminal who only regrets getting caught.

A common question is: Imagine a friend / brother / etc comes to you and tells you exactly the same facts you've outlined to us here. What would your advice to them be? If your stepson grows up and a woman does this to him, what would advise him to do?

As many have advised on other threads, you should end the marriage post-haste. Afterwards, maybe give her some time to work on herself and be a healthy partner, and see what happens after. People have gotten remarried after a divorce caused by cheating, so it's possible.

But *I* wouldn't advise staying in this sham right now. She's not safe.

We feel your pain, brother. Literally, we've all had our own D-days. Some of us have reconciled, some of us have divorced. All of us are farther ahead on the path and have that added perspective.

Take a piece of paper and make two columns. On the left column, tally up the number of thread respondents who say get out now. On the right tally up the number who say that you could maybe work this out. (BTW put me in the left column)

You mentioned not being very social, so I'll break it down in another way. Please forgive me if the following analogy isn't useful, I'm not all that socially adept either:

This is real, messy, painful life, but it can be described as a video game. We've all been dropped in at different places in the game, and some are more experienced and better players than others. However we've figured out the basic moves and structure of the game and know how it works. Some of us have been in your particular location of the game, others have heard about it, others have been in similar locales. To us it is crystal clear. The area of the game you are in has a bit of juicy treasure up front but there are no healing potions, and nothing required for further advancement. Great looking entrance but filled with empty treasure chests and the occasional monster from here on as you get further worn down. From our perspective you have just entered the room and are still within sight of the entrance. You will take damage regardless of what you do. But you easily have enough lives left to get the hell out and into a more productive part of the game. The way forward for you is back my friend.

[This message edited by antlered at 10:36 AM, January 14th (Saturday)]

Bang. She admitted that for the last 18 months she’s been having an affair with Mr A. Hotels a couple times a month, any opportunity at work. We got married in the midst of her having an affair. It took her a whole 5 days after we married until she called him. It took a whole of 2 weeks until she slept with him.

I have been around here for a number of years and I have to say that the paragraph that I quoted above has to be one of the most heartbreaking I have ever read. It ensures that your story will be one of the ones I will long remember. I really feel for you superlee.

Having been here as long as I have one tends to have seen most things. As a result not much surprises me any longer. I have to say that your story is one of the ones that did. Unfortunately.

Your wife has to be absolutely cold and heartless to have walked up the aisle, stood next to you and in front of God, both of your families and friends and while looking you in your eyes and straight out boldfaced LIED to you when she vowed to love and honor you and foresake all others. I mean who or what does that??? She Is a special kind of liar the likes of which I can't ever recall having come across here before.

Superlee she has shown you exactly who she is. She has shown you exactly what she is capable of. If this is how she starts a marriage what happens down the road when things get rough? What happens then?

I could go on and on but you have received some very good advice that you are free to take or disregard. I don't often offer advice but in your case I will add my voice to those who advise you to get out from this marriage and run as far away from this woman as you possibly can. The sooner the better.

And Count yourself lucky that you have no kids with her.

Superlee, we all know that this is hard. It's probably the hardest thing that you will go through in your life. And it's not fair. Totally not fair. We know that you're reeling. We know that your world has been turned into Mars nothing is even remotely familiar and you're in a fight for your life, the life that you were meant to live. We get it and we empathize with you.

Thing is, it takes two, completely and utterly determined and committed people to reconcile. It's the hardest thing that you will ever have to do, and it's the hardest thing that your WW will likely every have to do. It means a complete opening of her entire life to you. Utter transparency of all of her electronic devices. Putting a tracker on her phone. Going to intensive IC, probably for well over a year or two, to figure out why she has such shitty boundaries and why she even had the thought that screwing other people while being with you was acceptable. Why she thought that marrying you under these circumstances was a moral option. She's going to have to dig deep AND, at the same time, she's going to have to be utterly supportive of you. Help you to heal. Prove, through actions alone, that she is capable of being a safe partner to you. Offer you understanding when you're screaming at her in the middle of the night because of the mind movies going through your head. It will be 5 years for me, come this spring, and I can tell you with utter conviction that even though my FWH was committed to reconciling with me from day 1, it took him over 2 years to come completely clean with his lies and evasions. Two years where I was kicked in the head and heart multiple times. As much as I love him and as good of a marriage as we have today, there are still times when I wonder where I would be if he were not here. I accept that this is probably going to be an on-going thought for the rest of our relationship. Where there was once unrestrained joy, there is a speed bump.

The best predictor for future actions is watching the way that someone has acted in the past. If your dog always pees on the carpet when the doorbell rings, I think that you are utterly certain, when the UPS guy ignores the taped note to knock and instead, rings the doorbell, that you better get the towels and carpet cleaner. If your WW has a history of seeking out co-worker OM, sleeping with them, and lying to you about it, well then you can be utterly certain that she will do so again and again, until and unless she makes a complete change of character and does the hardest work she will ever have to do in her life, to figure out why she is so unsafe for anyone to be around, especially you.

It's heartbreaking, that there is a child there, one that you are acting as a father-figure to. It really is. My heart breaks for you. You have to consider that you have no rights over that child at all. Your WW could decide tomorrow to divorce you for another man, and you would have no right to visitation with that child. If she was run over by a car next week, that child's blood relatives would take him away and you'd never see him again. That's brutal, but true. The longer that you are there, the harder it is going to be to leave. And by staying, what do you teach that child? That no matter the abuse, a man just sucks it up and takes it? That's not a lesson that you want to teach. I'm so sorry.

I'm sorry. It's rare when I recommend a BS divorce their WS and walk away. I think every BS should file as close to D-day as soon as possible regardless of the situation, because they don't necessarily have to go through with it.

But I have to agree with the others. Your wife is a serial cheater, you've never had a legitimate relationship with her based on honesty, your relationship has no foundation to help recover from, and I can honestly list about 5 or 6 more things but I think you're getting the picture.

Serial cheaters rarely change. And I doubt this is behavior your wife suddenly picked up as soon as she met you. She's done this others. She'd require years of therapy to deal with whatever issues she has that would make her do something so horrible to someone. And even then it's not a guarantee she would change, not to mention she might not want to.

I'm glad you're thinking about seeing an IC again and taking it more seriously. I really think you should try to focus on your co-dependence as well. Even if you did stay with your wife, you'll never get the life you thought you had back. And even if you did, it was fake and based on a lie. You'll never get the woman you were in love with back. Because she didn't exist. I'm not saying this to cause you more pain, but eventually all of this is going to really sink in for you. And the longer it takes you to accept that, the harder it will be to deal with.

[This message edited by JS84 at 3:13 PM, January 14th (Saturday)]